Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v2; 2010

[hellocatastrophe]

Hello everyone, let me apologize in advance if this is in the wrong place or if this is a stupid question.. I read all the information on the first page and sifted through several more pages but didn't really find exactly the information I was looking for.

Okay, so I recently obtained an 8mg Suboxone, which I have never tried. I take opiates fairly often, maybe every couple of days, sometimes for three or four days in a row or so, but do not consider myself physically addicted. I have never really experienced any withdrawal type symptoms after stopping for any period of time, but do have a bit of a tolerance--I generally take around 50mg of oxycodone to get feeling good, 60-70mg of morphine, just to give you an idea.

What I'm curious about is the "precipitated withdrawal" that I've heard people can experience when using Suboxone. Basically what I want to know is, if you are not actually physically addicted but have used other opiates like oxycodone or morphine recently, say a few hours before taking the suboxone, and have a small tolerance, can it cause precipitated withdrawal or will it just make the effects from the other opiates go away? Should I wait to use the suboxone until I have abstained from using opiates for a few days despite the fact that I am not physically addicted but have a tolerance to other opiates, or would it be okay to take some in the same night?

Thank you!

i would wait to take it. it more than likely won't cause you to have precipitated withdrawals, but it will still tear the other opiates off of your receptors. why waste any of the high? it will immediately bring you to sober. even if you don't feel that you are high anymore, i can guarantee you will notice the change.

also, like other have mentioned- you may be having very mild withdrawals and not even know it. looking back on when i first started using, i was having them, but didn't know it at the time. only recently did i realize//recognize that this is what the problem was. in this case, it's much better safe than sorry.

i definitely recommend taking it, just wait until the next day after dosing your usual opies. you will probably get a decent-good quality high from, it so start small as it tends to make people sick when underestimated.

^ if you have no tolerance, 1mg (an eighth of your pill) will get you opiate-fucked. don't underestimate it if you do take it

so, basically this.
you will most likely have a good time. we're just saying to wait for a day on which you haven't used any other opiates to avoid any ill-effects and to get the most out of it.

i too suggest only take 1mg (or 1/8th of your 8mg pill). insufflating//snorting it will get you better results, so if you're going this route you may even want to cut that down to 0.75, or even 0.5mg. as i mentioned before, many people get hellishly sick the first time they use suboxone because they tend to underestimate it's super powers. keep in mind that (as with everything) you can always take more, but never less. start low and if you feel the need, keep working your way up every 30-60 minutes.

yeah, i remember doing 4 mg after a few days of light heroin use.that was actually a GREAT high! i wish so bad that suboxone didn't have a ceiling effect.

i too wish this wasn't a one-time thing with suboxone. i only achieved a nice buzzing high from it one time. it's kind of sad that this is usually un-repeatable. it was definitely different from my usual oxycodone high, but still highly enjoyable.

I've been on a five day binge of opana, and plan on going back on suboxone on friday. I want to do my last shot of the oxy before bed tomorow, and then when I wake up, take my suboxone. Will this be enough time? Opana is a short acting opiate, and I wake up in withdrawal, so I'm hoping that I'll be good to go then. Feedback would be appreciated.

oh, and I also am planning to take an initial dose of 2 mg insufflated, and work my way up from there if need be. I've been using about 40- 50 mg of the oxymorphone a day (I.V), and in the last few days, I've been doing ten milligram shots. I looked up on a conversion chart that 10 mg I.V oxymorphone is about 4 mg suboxone. does this sound accurate? Like I said above, I want to start off at two milligrams, but perhaps it's wishfull thinking to believe that that will do the trick.

i find that the more i use suboxone to relive withdrawal, the longer i have to wait inbetween my last oxycodone dose and my suboxone dose. i used to be able to take suboxone like 6 hours after my last oxycodone dose without any problems. now though, even if i wait a good solid 15 hours, it still makes me feel crappy sometimes. HOWEVER- i find that the worse i'm feeling when i take it, the worse the precipitated withdrawals are//seem. imo, it's much better to just suck up the shitty 20-30 minute precipitated withdrawal after only 6-8 hours after my last oxycodone dose (when i am only mildy withdrawing), rather than wait until i feel like death and still have to go through it (making it seem MUCH worse). does this even make sense? lolz. %)

also- the 2mg of suboxone should do you just fine, especially if you are planning to insufflate//snort it. i don't even take my suboxone sublingually anymore because i need at least 2x what i would nasally to get the same effects. also, 2mg does wonders for me with a 150+mg oxycodone habit//tolerance. as you said though, start off with the 2mg. wait an hour before any redosing as it takes suboxone a little longer to reach full effects. if you find you still don't feel 100%, insufflate//snort 0.25-0.5mg every 30-60 minutes until you feel good. however, the 2mg should do you just fine. i do find, however, that i need to re-dose ~5-6 hours later because i start to feel crappy again (this is only for the first day or so though. usually after 1-2 days i can get by on 0.5-0.75mg no problem). i think you will be just fine, and probably even better.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

**On another note, does anyone else think subs take longer to kick in when you snort it compared to other drugs? Usually when I snort a pill, I can feel it within 15mn or so, but with suboxone I don't notice effects until 30-45mn at the least. I find it odd.

Even for the IV route, yes it does take a solid amount of time to kick in. Like 2-5 minutes minimum.

Some drugs have a quicker access into the BBB (like heroin v morphine), so I would theorize buprenorphine takes its sweet time getting through the BBB.

i find that the more i use suboxone to relive withdrawal, the longer i have to wait inbetween my last oxycodone dose and my suboxone dose.

This is probably due to the fact that multiple doses of buprenorphine build up a steady amount of it in your system.

 

[30roxi30]

yeah, i remember doing 4 mg after a few days of light heroin use.that was actually a GREAT high! i wish so bad that suboxone didn't have a ceiling effect.

I've been on a five day binge of opana, and plan on going back on suboxone on friday. I want to do my last shot of the oxy before bed tomorow, and then when I wake up, take my suboxone. Will this be enough time? Opana is a short acting opiate, and I wake up in withdrawal, so I'm hoping that I'll be good to go then. Feedback would be appreciated.

oh, and I also am planning to take an initial dose of 2 mg insufflated, and work my way up from there if need be. I've been using about 40- 50 mg of the oxymorphone a day (I.V), and in the last few days, I've been doing ten milligram shots. I looked up on a conversion chart that 10 mg I.V oxymorphone is about 4 mg suboxone. does this sound accurate? Like I said above, I want to start off at two milligrams, but perhaps it's wishfull thinking to believe that that will do the trick.

are you IVing opana er? if thats the case you prob arnt getting much out of the pills .. because if your IVing 10irs the is equal to about 150-200mg of oxycodone oral.. so if your doing 50 mgs a day that is almost equal to 1000 mg of oxycodone oral .. and i wouldnt say you have to wait 24 hours but at the least 12 i tend to wait about 17 to be safe .. even though precipitated withdraw sucks if will only last an about an hour ... i think you will need more then 2 mgs but start with 2 mgs wait 45 mins if you still arnt feeling well take another 2 and so on untill you feel well ... when i switch back and forth i think its always good to take more the first day but not all at once incase of precipitated withdrawal

 

[Znegative]

yeah, I'm shooting the I.R's 40-50 mg a day. according to the opioid conversion chart, it's equal to over a thousand mg of oxy, I've been doing this for almost a week, which is why I was asking. Usually If I binge for just a day, I can hop back on subs no problem, but I've never binged for this long with such a potent opioid before.

 

[fm1983]

Well, like we all said, start with 2mg and work your way up. Bupe as you know is quite potent, so you may luck out. I still don't see you needing more then 5mg a day at the most.

 

[aekunc]

i would wait to take it. it more than likely won't cause you to have precipitated withdrawals, but it will still tear the other opiates off of your receptors. why waste any of the high? it will immediately bring you to sober. even if you don't feel that you are high anymore, i can guarantee you will notice the change.

also, like other have mentioned- you may be having very mild withdrawals and not even know it. looking back on when i first started using, i was having them, but didn't know it at the time. only recently did i realize//recognize that this is what the problem was. in this case, it's much better safe than sorry.

i definitely recommend taking it, just wait until the next day after dosing your usual opies. you will probably get a decent-good quality high from, it so start small as it tends to make people sick when underestimated.



so, basically this.
you will most likely have a good time. we're just saying to wait for a day on which you haven't used any other opiates to avoid any ill-effects and to get the most out of it.

i too suggest only take 1mg (or 1/8th of your 8mg pill). insufflating//snorting it will get you better results, so if you're going this route you may even want to cut that down to 0.75, or even 0.5mg. as i mentioned before, many people get hellishly sick the first time they use suboxone because they tend to underestimate it's super powers. keep in mind that (as with everything) you can always take more, but never less. start low and if you feel the need, keep working your way up every 30-60 minutes.

Wow, okay. I was gonna just split it into four equal pieces and eat one of the pieces, or let it dissolve under my tongue? That's what I was told to do, guess it's a bad idea. I guess I will just snort an eighth or less of it at first and see what happens, sounds like that should be alright to start off with.

As for having mild withdrawal symptoms, I don't know.. I usually just feel kind of fatigued or a little drained the day after but never sick.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Wow, okay. I was gonna just split it into four equal pieces and eat one of the pieces, or let it dissolve under my tongue? That's what I was told to do, guess it's a bad idea. I guess I will just snort an eighth or less of it at first and see what happens, sounds like that should be alright to start off with.

As for having mild withdrawal symptoms, I don't know.. I usually just feel kind of fatigued or a little drained the day after but never sick.

You want to dissolve it underneath your tongue to increase the bioavailability from ~10% to 30-35%. It should also kick in slightly quicker than merely eating the tablet.

"Fatigued/little drained" is what a high dose of buprenorphine can do to you for sure, I would definitely try a small part of what you're using to try to find the "baseline" dose for yourself.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

yeah, I'm shooting the I.R's 40-50 mg a day. according to the opioid conversion chart, it's equal to over a thousand mg of oxy, I've been doing this for almost a week, which is why I was asking. Usually If I binge for just a day, I can hop back on subs no problem, but I've never binged for this long with such a potent opioid before.

My advice to you; taper with the Opana IR's. Since you're accustomed to IVing, I would suggest to just slowly work your dose down. 4 to 5 doses per day, 10mg per shot, let's assume you get all 10mg in (even though you always lose some due to inactives, unless you are very efficiently micron filtering) - I would go to 10mg for your first shot of the day, then 5mg shots - but don't go above 4-5 shots per day. The active ingredient will still be lingering if it's long lived enough (I'm not familiar with the pharmacodynamics of oxymorphone) so that your 5mg shots are more like "boosters" throughout the day (imagine someone taking a 20mg or 30mg Adderall XR capsule, and then 6-8 hours into the experience, they will take 5 to 10mg of Adderall IR to boost the fading effects).

Then eventually move your morning shot down to 5mg, and start doing 2.5mg boosters (or cut back on the number of times you do 5mg shots). Or, just limit yourself to one shot per day, something like that. I don't know what will work best for you, but any of these ideas is something to go with.

When you're weaning down on oxymorphone, expect to feel light WD symptoms the whole way through, but also note it will be a walk in the park compared to "chasing the high until it's gone" (i.e. taking ever increasing amounts of it until it's gone) if you time it right and have a decent enough stash.

Getting on Suboxone will still probably be rough but going through this may make you a tougher individual and it may increase your willpower and/or courage to get clean for good!

I think primarily, if people focus away from "negativity" associated with relapsing, and look positively towards recovery, they're more likely to stay clean. Just in my opinion, other people may not feel this way.

 

[fm1983]

You want to dissolve it underneath your tongue to increase the bioavailability from ~10% to 30-35%. It should also kick in slightly quicker than merely eating the tablet.

"Fatigued/little drained" is what a high dose of buprenorphine can do to you for sure, I would definitely try a small part of what you're using to try to find the "baseline" dose for yourself.

The BA% would be higher though if he snorted it. Snorting 1/8th of a sub should do him good, better then if he took that 1/8th sublingualy.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

The BA% would be higher though if he snorted it. Snorting 1/8th of a sub should do him good, better then if he took that 1/8th sublingualy.

I believe he was talking about oral V sublingual. But yes, insuffulated has 50% BA. Some people would prefer the longer duration with the sublingual ROA.

 

[Znegative]

yeah, sublingual does last a lot longer, but sniffing lasts quite a while too. It's best to sniff it in small bumps I've found. I never get a drip when I insufflate suboxone (or anything). I'm kind of curious about trying pugging out. I want to give my veins a little bit of a rest again, and it gets to be a pain in the ass having to fix multiple times a day.

thanks everyone for the advice about transitioning from opana back to suboxone. I honestly don't feel that bad about this excursion, it was kind of a long time coming. I had always wanted to try oxycontin and oxymorphone. Kind of a stupid excuse to use, but I'm sure everyone can relate to feeling the need to check things off a list. Also, things have just been a bit difficult for me lately, and it was nice to switch to a full agonist for a while.

 

[aekunc]

How much longer would dissolving it under my tongue last than snorting it? This is actually my first time trying suboxone Captain Heroin (it's an 8mg tablet)

 

[fm1983]

How much longer would dissolving it under my tongue last than snorting it? This is actually my first time trying suboxone Captain Heroin (it's an 8mg tablet)

Are you opiate experienced? 8mg is a lot of suboxone and people who aren;t tolerant get sick from 2mg, so keep that in mind. I would start with 2mg, and work your way up if you are using for maintenance. If looking for recreation (and opiate naive), start with .5mg and work up.

The reason I snort my subs is because I need half of what I would if I took them sublingually. I don't find the duration to be short, I get a good 8 hours or so before I feel I need a little boost. And that little boost is only around.5mg.

 

[aekunc]

Are you opiate experienced? 8mg is a lot of suboxone and people who aren;t tolerant get sick from 2mg, so keep that in mind. I would start with 2mg, and work your way up if you are using for maintenance. If looking for recreation (and opiate naive), start with .5mg and work up.

The reason I snort my subs is because I need half of what I would if I took them sublingually. I don't find the duration to be short, I get a good 8 hours or so before I feel I need a little boost. And that little boost is only around.5mg.

I have some experience with opiates, probably not what many would consider "a lot" but I've been doing them (recreationally) on average every couple of days for the past several months, almost always oxycodone (usually somewhere around 50 or 60mg on any given day) but sometimes morphine, or Opana if I'm lucky. Mind you, I don't do all 60mg at once but usually start by eating 40mg or so and then snorting however much I feel that I need to boost. But I plan on starting with no more than 1mg of suboxone. I suppose I will snort it since the bioavailability is higher than eating or sublingual, and 8 hours is plenty of time to enjoy the effects!

 

[Nib]

The reason I snort my subs is because I need half of what I would if I took them sublingually. I don't find the duration to be short, I get a good 8 hours or so before I feel I need a little boost. And that little boost is only around.5mg.

Yea I totally agree. I always took my subs sublingualy, till I learned the BA was higher snorted. During my last kick I only had 11 8mg's so I sniffed them to get the most out of it. I couldn't notice any difference in how long I had relief for compared to Sublingual. 40 Hours into Pod w/d I was only getting minor symptoms. I'm used to Oxy w/d hitting me in 24 hours and my mind was probably just making the symptoms worse.


At the 40th hour I ended up taking 2mg of Sub and ended up falling asleep. Woke up within 2 hours and quickly dissolved the next 6mg. That was the only time I didn't sniff. Next couple days I was sniffing the whole 8mg, and that shit was a pain in the ass. I ended up cutting to 4mg within a week, and honestly all the way from 4mg down to crumbs would give me the same relief as double that dose the day before. It only when I had nothing that my body starts thinking "Oh no


What surprised me was that I actually didn't have to dose everyday like i thought I did. I skipped my dose one morning and by lunch time my body was mimicking w/d. I don't believe it was real w/d as I went 40 hours alright since I knew I had sub.

It's now 2 weeks since I been off the sub, maybe longer. I weaned down to about 1-2mg and then switched to Kratom for the Sub's w/d. It's now a month of pods and I still get shitty sleep, wake up with anxiety and my fucking knees hurt me all day. It's the worst in the morning because it usually wakes me up with kicking legs. Though once I take even 4g's of Kratom, they seem to go away. I was addicted to Kratom before i got into Pods, but I can't be addicted already again from 2 weeks of moderate use.

Can anyone figure this one out? I just wish it was Heroin or Oxy w/d so I would at least know when all the shit would end. The pod w.d's never got intense as Oxy did, but I didn't wait to see what they would do after 48 hours.

So basically wtf is going on? I know no one could really tell me exactly, but the last time I w/d from Sub it lasted only a week. Do you guys think I'm already addicted to Kratom again? Or is it just my fucking mind making this up?

I know this post is a little excessive, and I was just going to start a new thread cause this shit is driving me nuts but I got high and ended up with this essay, sorry.

Should I try Loperamide?

 

[Tahmsonmahsah]

So today I did some Bupe for the first time in a week. 1mg in the nose so far and the effect is good. However, the last four days I have been doing Methadone. 25mg on the first of these four days and 15mg on the other three. Obviously I still have some Methadone in my system. Do you think this could be dangerous?

EDIT: I'm just a recreational user of opioids and not physically dependent, etc. Mostly use 1-2 times/week but sometimes do 1-3 weeks of constant use.

 

[Znegative]

no you're probably ok. and one mg sniffed is still pretty low, and obviously it didn't make you feel really shitty on top of the methadone. Be careful though with using other opiates and downers. methadone has a huge half life.

 

[chi.christina]

IM Suboxone

So I'm a brand new Bluelighter as you can see, and I'm posting for the very first time, so I hope no one rips me a new asshole if this is posted in the wrong place or already covered somewhere. I'm an opiate experienced person with a script for suboxone. I've tried to fuck with the pills as many ways as possible, and have some questions for other sub/bupe users. I've heard and know from experience that you can IV suboxone, and I've tried it with great results.

Now here's my problem. I'm a fatty fat fat person and have a REALLY hard time finding a vein. I've exhausted most of them back in my heroin days, and the ones I can hit usually are only good for one shot or two. In my experience suboxone takes a lot of water to get it to draw into the needle, so an 8mg pill is the equivalent of at least 5-8 shots in a 1ml syringe. So recently I've turned to IM. I've heard "never IM pills" but I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do. I used a 1/2 in needle and IMed into my upper arm the 5-8 shots, rotating sites on my upper arm. I got high. The next day the sites were very sore, and over the next few days they swelled up, then turned bruised, then hardened into lumps. A few weeks later, those lumps are still there.

Does anyone know what this is? Has anyone heard of this or had similar problem? Is it possible that the 1/2 in needle wasn't long enough and I just deposited the sub in my arm fat? The lumps seem to be shrinking and re-absorbing, should I just ride it out or should I see a doctor to have them excised? Please help the newbie!

 

[SubDude]

So good news, bad news - I went today and instead of seeing me again in 2 weeks, he has to see me in 3 (good for me, more drugs at once, less visits = more money from work, and maybe he will keep it 3 week intervals). The bad news, is he gave me 3 weeks of suboxone 2mg, 3 x 2.5mg klonopin daily (I'm LOVING this) but he only have me 2 weeks of the suboxone 8. And he's going away in 3 weeks, so I hope I can get him to call in a new 1 week script I can pick up when the 2 weeks should be done. It doesn't really matter because I can get by on the amount given if I have to, and can use dope to supplement it, it's more so annoying so I can keep all my records on point.

Anyway ways, just took 7mg of my klonopin, so things are improving. Full time job with very nice pay, will be able to afford car insurance again and get my prized car back, thigs are def looking up, and although I do still use heroin I atrribute some success to the suboxone program. Ultimately I would rather just be on my Kpins and do sub/heroin on if I wanted to and not be addicted, but until then I guess I can deal. I'm finally starting to see the light and am so happy it's coming

Glad to hear things are looking better... However, IMO 7mg of klonopin is quite a lot and i'd be just as worried about not getting enough of those as the subs. I've used opiates since 1970 and have had my share of bad wd's... but I'm told benzo wd's are much worse. I use them very carefully and try not to use 2 days in a row so I can keep tolerence and dependence at bay. One addiction at a time is enough for me. You might want to consider stockpiling some for a reserve. If I ever get booted from my subs program I have enough for 3-4 yrs. I just hope the shelf life is that long.

 

[SubDude]

So I'm a brand new Bluelighter as you can see, and I'm posting for the very first time, so I hope no one rips me a new asshole if this is posted in the wrong place or already covered somewhere. I'm an opiate experienced person with a script for suboxone. I've tried to fuck with the pills as many ways as possible, and have some questions for other sub/bupe users. I've heard and know from experience that you can IV suboxone, and I've tried it with great results.

Now here's my problem. I'm a fatty fat fat person and have a REALLY hard time finding a vein. I've exhausted most of them back in my heroin days, and the ones I can hit usually are only good for one shot or two. In my experience suboxone takes a lot of water to get it to draw into the needle, so an 8mg pill is the equivalent of at least 5-8 shots in a 1ml syringe. So recently I've turned to IM. I've heard "never IM pills" but I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do. I used a 1/2 in needle and IMed into my upper arm the 5-8 shots, rotating sites on my upper arm. I got high. The next day the sites were very sore, and over the next few days they swelled up, then turned bruised, then hardened into lumps. A few weeks later, those lumps are still there.

Does anyone know what this is? Has anyone heard of this or had similar problem? Is it possible that the 1/2 in needle wasn't long enough and I just deposited the sub in my arm fat? The lumps seem to be shrinking and re-absorbing, should I just ride it out or should I see a doctor to have them excised? Please help the newbie!

I got some bruising and a small lump when I missed part of a shot of subs but the lump subsided [in an hr]and the bruise healed up within 10-12 days. You don't say how you filtered or the total amt used? Cap Heroin has a thread about micron filtering [which I followed] it is excellent and shows how much water you need. It's truly the right way to do this. IMO you made a mistake to IM... especially 5-8 shots of subs [all in upper are] in one session. BTW since you only need .5-1mg to get the effects IV.

You say it's been a few weeks and the lumps are still there but also say they are shrinking... depending on the rate of shrinkage, I'd probably go to an immediate care center and get a medical opinion.