Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v2; 2010

[Znegative]

yeah, sounds like you got a little taste of precipitated withdrawals. I had never had a problem switching over to sub before either. I've done it as early as 6 hours after my last dose without a problem. but this last friday morning, i took 2 mg sublingual, and got them. it's hard to say how long they lasted.. I took the sub at about 2 am, and then I just remember being up for what seemed like forever, pooring out sweat and curled up in a ball. it never occured to me to check the time, but when I woke up I was ok again, just looked like hell.

 

[qwe]

I'm pissed. Ok, my last dose of bupe was about 73 hours ago... that was one day where I did about a total of 16mg (prior to this day, I hadn't touched bupe in about a month or so).

Here's what I did:

4pm or so I did about 4mg.. I wasn't well at all.
8pm or so I did another 4mg, still not well.
10pm another 4mg... now I'm feeling somewhat stable but could be better, if you know what I mean.
so just after midnight.. I take my last 4mg, at this point I'm feeling ok.

the next day, I get that call from a friend who wants to hook SWIsM up. This changes my whole mindset and makes me want to hop back onto the wagon just for the weekend... so, I kind of figure nothing would come of it... but I let my boy hook me up anyway. As expected.. nothing happens.

I figured that by yesterday I should be good to go... I go through about half a g and nothing... as you can imagine... I was thoroughly pissed. Despite this, I figure by today I should DEFINITELY be good to go and it would be a nice way to cap off the weekend before I go back on the bupes in time for work Monday.

So here I am... coming up on 73 hours... coming up on almost a gram up my nose... and... nothing.... I'M NOT FUCKING HIGH AT ALL.. WHAT THE FUCK! WHY IS THIS HAPPENING! IS THE HIGHER POWER THAT N.A. ALWAYS TALKS ABOUT PUNISHING ME? I just wanted to catch a harmless little nod this Sunday afternoon... instead... I burned a serious hole in my pocket... I hate my slow fucking metabolism... my eyes are only now starting to get pinned... and I feel nothing, THIS SUCKS THIS SUCKS THIS SUCKS.

wait till there's <1mg in your system

half life is around 37h, almost two days. so each two days, half will leave your system

so for 16 mg, 2 days later assume there is still 8mg around even though you don't feel it. 4 days later assume 4mg, which is still enough to block receptors plenty; though after waiting so long most of it theoretically should be bound up in protein (well actually i think that's included in half life calculations)

 

[Znegative]

thats true, but he's taking them sublingually I'm assuming, so he really probably only absorbed about a comple 5-6 mg, so I would assume after 4 days he should get high.

This half life stuff get's really confusing to me though, when you're I.V'ing sub. why is it that you can get high quicker when you shoot your sub than when you sublingual? The half life isn't changing based on ROA, and i feel like even if the bupe begins to metabolize immediately with I.V use, sublingual use only takes an hour at most to absorb completely. even if it took three hours, that's still not a drastic enough difference to explain having to wait one day v. 3 days, unless I'm missing something... (don't mean to sound condescending btw, I truly have been pondering this for some time, and no one really gives an answer that makes sense.)

 

[PhrostByte]

wait till there's <1mg in your system

half life is around 37h, almost two days. so each two days, half will leave your system

so for 16 mg, 2 days later assume there is still 8mg around even though you don't feel it. 4 days later assume 4mg, which is still enough to block receptors plenty; though after waiting so long most of it theoretically should be bound up in protein (well actually i think that's included in half life calculations)

The 16mg was taken over the course of 8 hours.. so you think it's going to take me like a week before I can get high again??? wtf???

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I'm pissed. Ok, my last dose of bupe was about 73 hours ago... that was one day where I did about a total of 16mg (prior to this day, I hadn't touched bupe in about a month or so).

Here's what I did:

4pm or so I did about 4mg.. I wasn't well at all.
8pm or so I did another 4mg, still not well.
10pm another 4mg... now I'm feeling somewhat stable but could be better, if you know what I mean.
so just after midnight.. I take my last 4mg, at this point I'm feeling ok.

the next day, I get that call from a friend who wants to hook SWIsM up. This changes my whole mindset and makes me want to hop back onto the wagon just for the weekend... so, I kind of figure nothing would come of it... but I let my boy hook me up anyway. As expected.. nothing happens.

I figured that by yesterday I should be good to go... I go through about half a g and nothing... as you can imagine... I was thoroughly pissed. Despite this, I figure by today I should DEFINITELY be good to go and it would be a nice way to cap off the weekend before I go back on the bupes in time for work Monday.

So here I am... coming up on 73 hours... coming up on almost a gram up my nose... and... nothing.... I'M NOT FUCKING HIGH AT ALL.. WHAT THE FUCK! WHY IS THIS HAPPENING! IS THE HIGHER POWER THAT N.A. ALWAYS TALKS ABOUT PUNISHING ME? I just wanted to catch a harmless little nod this Sunday afternoon... instead... I burned a serious hole in my pocket... I hate my slow fucking metabolism... my eyes are only now starting to get pinned... and I feel nothing, THIS SUCKS THIS SUCKS THIS SUCKS.

Well, the idea behind why switching back and forth between heroin and buprenorphine isn't all that ideal, is because of this. When you are just using heroin (or your opiate of choice), you are going between two polar opposites - being high, and coming down. Suboxone alleviate withdrawal symptoms, and also has a higher affinity for the mu-opioid receptor. In this sense, using Suboxone to help coming down from heroin, will in turn prevent the person from using heroin (successfully) again, due to the fact that it's keeping your tolerance up (initially), and large doses will last longer/block heroin better, than smaller ones.

Whether or not you got high, you still would have burned a hole in your pocket. Just stick to the Suboxone IMO, and save your money for something else.

So I did something rash today, in a fit of despair and self pity. I threw out my entire suboxone script, save for probably 8mg or so that are lying around my room in different stash area's.
Last friday I made a poor transition back to sub after a weeklong binge on opana, and it's been pretty rough. I've had to take 16 mg of sub (all different routes of administration, havn't even been paying attention, though today I mostly I.V'd) to keep me from feeling shitty, and I've just been super depressed and angry, just like I expected I'd be.
I decided today that I did not want to get back on suboxone for maintenance again, and that I'd rather just ride these withdrawals out. I sort of made this plan up when I was taking the opana, but it was easy to bullshit myself that I could do it then, cause I was sky high. Anyway, today I got sick of it and knew that if I had all this suboxone lying around, that I was just going to keep taking it. I knew that even if I again tapered myself down to .6 mg a day, that I would just continue at that dose again, switch over to a full agonist at some point in the future, and then start the whole process over again of getting stable, tapering, and relapsing.
so I threw it all out. Probably not the smartest idea, and yes I could have sold them, but I didn't, and now I have 8 mg to taper with. am I upset? at the moment, no, but I just did a 2 mg shot, so I'm feeling alright. If possible, I'm just going to try and get a little klonopin, maybe some kratom and to try and ride this out to the best of my ability.

Good luck! People have a way of ignoring the bigger picture while on opiates, so while I think it's personally a bit short sighted to have done what you did, if it works for you, then who's to say it's a bad thing?

Either way with clonazepam and whatever else you can get (like kratom I guess) it should help you out.

why is it that you can get high quicker when you shoot your sub than when you sublingual?

Because it's a race, and the finish line is your blood brain barrier/the brain receptors that the drugs effect.

Half life is how long it takes 50% of a drug dosage to be metabolized out of someone's body.

However, the IV route delivers the entire dose to the blood stream, and quickly gets it to the brain/receptors (whereas sublingual has a much more gradual onset).

When IV'd, the buprenorphine does initially start metabolizing "all at once" so to speak, which accounts partially for the shorter duration.

Time until onset is the other factor - if a drug is delivered 100% at once via the intravenous route, 100% of the drug will start effecting you, at once.

With sublingual Suboxone, the slow absorption means a slow onset, or a slow "initial effect". This way, the come up will begin in 30-45 minutes and may take a few hours until full effects are felt. With the IV route, the onset (for me) begins within minutes, and is peaking before 20-30 minutes is up.

The same idea would explain why snorted heroin gives you not only a longer high but a longer rush. IV heroin has a much more pronounced acute rush but (the rush) wears off much quicker also due to this. This is primarily why I preferred snorting heroin, the longer rush meant more pleasure for the dope/$ to me.

This would also explain why snorted cocaine may onset in 5-15 minutes and last 30-45 minutes (or less), but IV cocaine will onset in 5-10 seconds and last 5-10 minutes at the longest IME.

I hope this made a little sense for you. Feel free to expand upon any ideas here if you want to know more.

The 16mg was taken over the course of 8 hours.. so you think it's going to take me like a week before I can get high again??? wtf???

your dose * the ROA's average BA = amount of drug in system
16mg * 0.3 = 4.8mg
first half life - 2.4mg
2nd half life - 1.2mg
3rd half life - 0.6mg
4th half life - 0.3mg

I would say by 3-4 days it is probably safe to say you will feel opiates. If the heroin wasn't cut and was legit, then it is unknown what your tolerance will be like - you may have incidentally raised it a bit. If the heroin was bunk, then maybe your tolerance is lower than you may realize.

I say this because by 3-4 days, you should have a trace amount left (similar to what a low dose would be like instead of 16mg) - and these lower doses typically don't block heroin as well.

 

[Bojangles69]

Ok Just an update I jumped off the .6mg sub and only 12gms of pod powder was all I needed believe it or not. Even at that dose I had some bit of a glow I was really not expecting that low an amount of pods to hold me over from sub as well a it did. Prob could have even taken less I'm sure.

I know its a tiny amount of sub but the drug is still suppose to be powerful.. guess pods arent too weak themselves.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Ok Just an update I jumped off the .6mg sub and only 12gms of pod powder was all I needed believe it or not. Even at that dose I had some bit of a glow I was really not expecting that low an amount of pods to hold me over from sub as well a it did. Prob could have even taken less I'm sure.

I know its a tiny amount of sub but the drug is still suppose to be powerful.. guess pods arent too weak themselves.

Glad to hear you had a good time! %)

 

[qwe]

>>Because it's a race, and the finish line is your blood brain barrier/the brain receptors that the drugs effect.
>>

i believe he meant, in terms of being able to get high without precipitated w/d

>>I know its a tiny amount of sub but the drug is still suppose to be powerful.. guess pods arent too weak themselves. >>

as my paws will attest, it is not weak at all

 

[jazzyhope]

Does anyone have a link to scientific proof that the naltrexone in suboxone is inactive? I have been arguing with a know it all who swears that's what causes the precipitated withdrawals. I have no proof (except personal experience)... thanks Jaz

 

[Snugg]

Next Thursday, I'm making the jump to suboxone. I'm so fucking sick of this life style, and this vicious cycle. I'm fucking done. So, on 7/8, I begin what is hopefully a new path.

...Hopefully it fucking works.

----------------
Now playing: Braille - Shades of Grey
via FoxyTunes

 

[jazzyhope]

You will do fine..... no worries it works! One thing I would have liked to know before I began it was that it's no picnic to get off. In hindsight I would still have chosen to take it. It would also be wonderful if the sub docs knew a little more about it other than what Reckitt Benckiser tells them... none of mine have. The only problem I had was being grumpy & a little tense (for no apparent reason) the first week on sub. Nothing major just a little irritable. Good luck jumping off the merry go round. It feels pretty good to be free from the old behavior of opiate addiction. -Jaz

 

[tyler5]

temgesic is 0.2mg buprenorphine.

is there are difference between the 0.2mg and the 24mg bupe?
how can there be such a huge difference of tablet size?
i mean xanax is 0.25 to 3XR and that is pretty big.
but 0.2mg and 24mg? are they just different drugs or is one like and XR version?

also what is the normal dose for an everydays codeine user to feel nice and high with the 0.2 temgesics? like 10 of those or is 1-2 enough? if so, is it even possible to use 24mg tablet without overdosing?

sorry for the dumb questions i really dont know much about the subutex/bupe/suboxone thing and if they are one and same drug.

thank You for Your help and responses, i appreciate all of them.

 

[fm1983]

is there are difference between the 0.2mg and the 24mg bupe?
how can there be such a huge difference of tablet size?
i mean xanax is 0.25 to 3XR and that is pretty big.
but 0.2mg and 24mg? are they just different drugs or is one like and XR version?

also what is the normal dose for an everydays codeine user to feel nice and high with the 0.2 temgesics? like 10 of those or is 1-2 enough? if so, is it even possible to use 24mg tablet without overdosing?

sorry for the dumb questions i really dont know much about the subutex/bupe/suboxone thing and if they are one and same drug.

thank You for Your help and responses, i appreciate all of them.

If you plan on using bupe recreationally, you must sustain your codiene use for at least 24hrs. If not, you will be thrown into precipitated withdraw, which wont be fun.

Depending on your tolerance, I would start with 2 of those tablets and work your way up. You shouldn't need much as bupe is quite potent. Work your way up from there, I don't think you would need more then 1 or 2mg at most. Also, don't expect a traditional opiate high from bupe, it's only a partial antagonist.

 

[tyler5]

thank You

but what about the 24mg tabs? are they the same drug which is in 0.2 temgesic?
if so, is it even possible to use that 24mg tab by a not very opiate tolerant person?

 

[fm1983]

thank You

but what about the 24mg tabs? are they the same drug which is in 0.2 temgesic?
if so, is it even possible to use that 24mg tab by a not very opiate tolerant person?

There is no 24mg tab. They make .2, .4, 2, & 8mg. I don't know where you are getting the 24mg thing from... And yes, it is all the same drug, buprenorphine.

24mg is complete overkill, even for someone using on maintenance. it would not be a fun experience. I use about 2mg a day for maitnance and that was off a 160mg oxy habit.

An opiate naive should be able to get a nice high from <1mg. It's not uncommon for someone naive to get sick from a 2mg dose. Like I said, start with .2 and work your way up until you have a nice buzz. I don't expect you to need much more then 1-2mg at most.

And make sure you abstain from all other opiates for at least 24hrs prior to dosing the bupe, or you will be sick.

 

[Sowle]

Hi guys!

Just wanted to see if anyone could help out with estimated equivalent doses for methadone and sub. Im currently on methadone (im down to 20mgs but will prob be taking it up to 30mgs again tomorrow) and am going to be making the switch in the next week or two and want to know what kind of bupe dose ill end up on.

Thanks!

 

[Newmorfan]

^^^^^
Congrats on getting on such a low dose of methadone, your at the perfect spot right now to make the switch to Suboxone, well on your way to recovery

Your doctor will titrate you when you make the switch, but on 20-30mg of methadone I would be amazed if you needed anything over 8 milligrams

Good luck friend!

 

[Pegasus]

I switched from ~20mg methadone to ~0.5mg snorted bupe with no problem at all. I actually went closer to 1mg the first couple of days, but it was well more than enough, really, and it got me quite high.

 

[jamesBrown]

I switched from ~20mg methadone to ~0.5mg snorted bupe with no problem at all. I actually went closer to 1mg the first couple of days, but it was well more than enough, really, and it got me quite high.

Ive personally never been on methadone but i started a suboxone maintenance plan about a month ago. Prescribed 12 mg a day but have only ever taken up to 4 mg. Now i snort about 1-2 mg in the morning, get a slightly euphoric buzz for a couple hours, than feel fine the rest of the day.

 

[jamesBrown]

^this all came about after a 4 year stint of a $200 a day heroin habit. I was suprised 2mg was more than enough to keep the withdrawals/urges at bay.