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Phenethylamines The Big & Dandy Bromo-Dragonfly/DOB-Dragonfly Thread

From what I have read, although much of it is suspect, the dosage range for oral activity is guessed to be between 200-500ug. I think someone here on BL posted that a person who took 2mg was delerious for 2 days in a not-so-good way. So, I would continue to take the slow climb up the ladder if I were you. But so far, that is what information I have read on the internet.
 
Even though I have obtained some of this compound, and am rather a wuss when it comes to needles (I turn green and nearly pass out), I am quite happy that this substanced has turned out to be only active via IM at these super low doses. Even if the oral level is only around 1mg (still very low), this is enough to keep the dealers who may have been planning to start marketing this via blotter and thereby causing all manner of damage to the research chemical "scene" (which gets a bad enough rap as it is). I doubt putting this stuff on blotter will now be economically feasible for the drug dealers, plus they'd have to use larger hits if they did, which would make it much more difficult to pass off as LSD.

I really don't want to see another incident like the whole DOM/STP thing. Poor Shulgin felt a lot of responsibilty for that, and I'm sure he would be equally upset if a similar situation happened with this compound.

And seriously "bad fortune"???? This is far from bad fortune, bad fortune is the couple who had DOB, but thought it was MDA and snorted an appropriate amount. Woman dead, man in coma for weeks. That's bad fortune, this is the type of thing one should expect from a new and untested substance.
 
I recently acquired 1 mg. of Bromo-DFly suspended in a 40% ethanol solution to 500 microgram/ml. After reading this thread, I'm a bit disappointed to find that the oral doses for this substance are comparatively much higher than some of the earlier reports I'd read had seemed to indicate- but only just a *little* disappointed. I have no use for needles nor injecting anything into my body, have never plugged anything nor do I have much desire to ;) , so oral ingestion of chemicals is pretty much my only option (other than insufflating DPT, which in my opinion is a kick-ass psychedelic and one with which I have absolutely no worries about insufflating it since it's had such a long and safe track record of use via that method)...

But anyways, back to the Bromo-Dfly- I agree with the others who have said that it's probably a good thing that it's *not* as potent orally as many at first believed. A slow to come on, long-lasting, extremely potent psychedelic whose dosages are measured by the microgram would seem to me to be a pretty dangerous thing to get released out into the general public, and with such a thing it's not too difficult to imagine lots of overdoses, freakouts, and maybe even deaths ahead. So in that sense, this will probably turn out better for all of us, as the last thing we need is any more negative publicity surrounding research chemicals.

As far as my own little vial of Bromo-Dfly, I'm not too put out about this new dosage info, as it didn't really cost me a whole lot of money relatively speaking. I won't be trying any doses for some time, as I'm going to wait and hopefully read much more info from people who have experimented with oral doses. Heck, I may never get around to using it as far as that goes, but if nothing else I'm very glad to have it as it's a really unique and unusual substance and one which I am happy to add to my collection- whether I ever actually use it or not. :)
 
I'll try a small (100ug or so) IV dose soon, within the next few weeks. Some time when I won't have to drive or act normal for 48 hours. This stuff still sounds very promising to me.
 
It should be quite easy to measure out the proper amount to get 100 mics in ethanol, then let the ethanol evaporate, then dissolve the solids in distilled H2O (or whatever, I don't do needles, so I'm not positive that's what you would use, but you get the idea). I'd think it would take a couple hours max, probably much less than that.
 
One concern would be, 'How do the dosages of an IV versus and IM use differ?' since nobody has ever taken it IV. The other concern is, 'How smart is injecting some chemical which was made by lord knows whom, was diluted in at least two solvents by a vendor, sold over the internet, and evaporated off by you?' Do you trust the purity of the chemical and its solvents? Do you trust that the amount supposedly in the solution is exactly the amount you were told? Think carefully before you try this experiment. Eating some powder you bought off the internet is one thing, pumping it straight into your veins is a tad more risky.
 
Injecting some powder/rocks I bought in the ghetto from some shady person I've never met has never given me much worry.

I don't see what would be bad about injecting 0.08mL of ethanol. I've heard of plenty of people injecting pure liquor out of a liquor bottled, undiluted, and while it burns it isn't too bad. The fraction of a millilitre that the bromo-dragonfly is dissolved in should be painless.
 
Don't worry (I know these words will be misunderstood), you're liver is gonna take care of the ethanol and lots of other impurities. WHAT I'd be worried about is IM'ing that shit. Now that's a whole different story... Fuck that.

crOOk
 
I'll try a small (100ug or so) IV dose soon

Without first taking a small dose by mouth to ensure that you don't have an adverse reaction to the compound, we're again in the realm of totally reckless behaviour that could end up with a coroner telling the press that this is the next menace our (ie society's) young people have to face.

I've tried to convey to people that they have to be very careful as this is untested territoy, but as soon as you've finished pointing out the dangers of one type of behaviour, somebody pops up with another.

I'd love to say "go ahead, do something stupid without being cautious and safe first; it'll serve as a warning to others", but it'd haunt me that I'd been so irresponsible.

EVERYBODY CONSIDERING USING A COMPOUND WITH A NON-EXISTANT TRACK RECORD IN HUMANS; look at how Shulgin went about the testing of DOT (Aleph-1) in PIHKAL as an example of safe proceedure when ingesting unknown compounds. I don't mean directly repeat his method, but notice the degree of safety built into his trials and adapt it for your situation (with things such as possible allergic reactions, unexpected physiological reactions possible interactions with other substances etc).


I can see this is why mods resign out of frustration
 
Without first taking a small dose by mouth to ensure that you don't have an adverse reaction to the compound, we're again in the realm of totally reckless behaviour that could end up with a coroner telling the press that this is the next menace our (ie society's) young people have to face.

I've tried to convey to people that they have to be very careful as this is untested territoy, but as soon as you've finished pointing out the dangers of one type of behaviour, somebody pops up with another.

Well, it's good that you're here to warn people of the dangers. I appreciate it, as I'm sure most Bluelighters do, and I hope it never gets to the point where it becomes too frustrating for you to carry on moderating.

I think it's all about acceptance of certain realities, one of which is that some people are gonna do what they're gonna do, come hell or high-water, regardless of safety and/or responsibility, and irrespective of any warnings that anyone might give them. The bottom-line is that they're going to do what they want to do, and there's really nothing anyone (absent themselves) can do to change that.

So my advice is to just accept it. Let them know the known and unknown dangers, then let them make their choices themselves. I may think some behaviors are stupid or irresponsible or immature or selfish, but I also accept the fact that everyone is different and that some people will behave in ways that I don't agree with, and that there's nothing I can do to stop it. You can't fight it, so why take that burden upon yourself?

I dunno. I just hope for the best and hope that no one hurts themselves nor anyone else with this stuff.
 
but the guy wanting to IV 100ug is not overtly stupid behaviour. Granted I would not do it myself. But if somebody was prepared to self-administer this amount then I would not be fearful for his life.

He says nothing of a small test dose beforehand (say 20ug by mouth) to ensure that he doesn't have an idiosyncratic reaction to it. If he does and he puts 100ug straight into his bloodstream, then any anaphylaxis will be almost immediate and has more likelyhood of being fatal. At least with a small test dose beforehand you reduce the speed and severity of any anaphylactic/hypersensitivity reaction (I know about this as I have a hypersensitivity/allergy to the penicillin group of drugs).

That's what I mean by 'common sense precautions'. You have to know about these sort of things if you are going to indulge in experimental human pharmacology. Shit, enough people die with drugs the have a proven track record nevermind ones with next to no animal, nevermind human, pharmacology.
 
well i agree that whilst all of the popular edible chemicals are relatively safe, no doubt there are exceptions. So, a 50ug might be more appropriate for a 'safety first' mentality. However the "idiot user" might be more inclined to think 'fuck it, i'll just inject 100ug and see what happens'. He might freak out and have a horrible trip. He might think he is gonna die, but the chances are he will actually still be safe.
 
Smyth said:
but the guy wanting to IV 100ug is not overtly stupid behaviour. Granted I would not do it myself. But if somebody was prepared to self-administer this amount then I would not be fearful for his life.

Nobody has ever taken it IV. There is one report of IM use. The dose for IV may be much lower, he may be hypersensitive or allergic, or any number of other unpredictable factors. If you are not fearful for your life, bleeding edge RC's may not be your best choice. One ought treat them with the same healthy levels of fear and caution as for example, experimental jetcraft.
 
One ought treat them with the same healthy levels of fear and caution as for example, experimental jetcraft.

Does that mean I can view myself in the same light as people like Chuck Yeager? (pilot of the first supersonic aeroplane; Bell X-1).

I've got 'the right stuff' =D


I def like that analogy!


I'm not sure eating it will prove anything about the safety of a larger IV dose

It'll prove that it won't do things like cause a massive histamine release in you. If the oral dose causes any itchyness, I'd say an IV dose doesn't sound like a good idea at all. The benzodifuran nucleus is different enough from ring substitutions into a phenyl group to possibly have some unpredicted pharmacological effect in some people (like me with penicillins. Similar antibiotics are OK as long as they don't have the beta-lactam ring common to all the penicillins. It's the beta-lactam ring that is the cause of the immunological (allergy) reaction)
 
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What good is a small oral dose to check for bad reactions going to do for a drug that doesn't really work orally? It may possibly help screen out allergic reactions, but not necessarily reactions to the drugs pharmacology. Have you had your sample of bromo-dragonfly analyzed by an independent chemist to insure there are no contaminants in either the drug or the solution it is in?

No offense but what exactly is your motivation here? 'I spent E35 on this and by God, I mean to trip!' or have you put more thought into it? What you are doing seems rather reckless.
 
What good is a small oral dose to check for bad reactions going to do for a drug that doesn't really work orally? It may possibly help screen out allergic reactions, but not necessarily reactions to the drugs pharmacology

Precisely that, to rule out a hypersensitivity response. Those sorts of response kill people every year, and as it's to check before administering IV, it's the sort of thing you need to know as a hypersensitivity/allergic response to an IV drug is going to occur very quickly (quick enough to have you dead in a couple of minutes if you're the unlucky one).

We are, after all a harm-reduction site
 
@nanobrain
T+01:30, Bob Dylan waking me up.
T+02:00 Nope, no effects, or are there threshold effects?

Maybe I should drop another 250 at least. Fuck it, I just will.

EDIT: Looks like fastandbulbous (it was you, right?) was right about the steep dose response curve... 2mg=48h delirium, 1mg=threshhold? This is just an assumption, noone get me wrong here about that second dosage. 1mg might wreak psychedelic havoc on some individuals!

crOOk
 
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He, I have some 2C-B right here... :D

Anyway...
T+00:00 Oral administration of 400ug on an empty stomach after a night of sleep.

Back to sleep, extremely vivid dreams, lucid dreams without waking up, great dream memory...

T+01:30 Bob Dylan wakes me up, no effects yet. In retrospect maybe there were some threshold effects. Ingestion of another 250mics.

T+04:00 I feel awesome, strong body buzz, everything looks like it was gonna jump at me (in a positive way), glowing etc. My mind is really calm, no racing thoughts at all. Weird. Although thought patterns seem deeper and focused around biographical aspects. Had time to observe this while taking a hot bath. This felt awesome. Peaches, omg peaches. Peaches are so fucking good.

T+04:00 Definitely great stuff. The first 400ug should be peaking now. Lots of pleasant body feelings, higher muscle tension, my saliva is all tough and shit, really sticky, typical trippy feeling in my throat and stomach and everywhere, I love it. Visually it seems unexciting, but I am sure (!) this will change at a higher dose. It should have a lot of potential, everything looks much like 10-15mg of 2C-B. Let's wait till the other 250ug have taken their full effect in an hour or two... I think 1mg will be a good dose though for future trials.

Btw I still feel quiet calm, not too speedy at all. Pupils are dilated, not that anyone out on the street would notice though. Blood pressure seems normal, still don't have any batteries. :( Pulse doesn't seem significantly raised either.

T+08:00 Good stuff! 1mg should be just right. Only physical discomfort was some slight nausea... I only had fruit for the whole day... Everytime I burp I kinda feel like I could puke within the next couple of minutes or so. Never happened to me on any psychedelic before (well, besides shrooms, but that's another story). It's cool though, nothing that would make me feel really bad!

crOOk
 
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