Phenethylamines The Big & Dandy Bromo-Dragonfly/DOB-Dragonfly Thread

[farabove_theclouds]

I was searching the net and found several (really a lot of them) medical injecting solution with mostrly higher amounts of ethanol beside the medication. So it IS POSSIBLE to inject alcohol, you just need to de-concentrate it a bit I recommmend a ratio 1:5 or 1:10. There shouldn't be any alcohol effects with that minimum amounts.

Sorry for making all nervous, it isn't that bad as I thought.

 

[gn2osis]

When shulgin reported that B-DFLY was withouth activity upto 1 mg doses, did he mean the compound with the non aromatic furanone rings?

Perhaps people here tried the hydrogenated version.

He meant the fully aromatized version, and he said that it's orally inactive up to 1 mg. The activity he mentions at 100 mics is via injection (IM).

But you make a good point about the identity of the compound. I don't know of any independent testing of the material being sold as DOB-DFLY (aka bromo-dfly, a name I don't like at all because it's too easily confused with 2C-B-dfly).

I'm glad this thing turned out to be anticlimactic. It could have been a disaster. Super long-lasting, slow-to-come-on, potent compounds are the last thing that should be out there getting passed around like candy at festivals.

 

[georgiapoppy]

Plug It!

As suggested above, one could try plugging this to see if it has activity via that route. Much easier than IVing it. If a 'full' dose IV is 100mcg than perhaps start around 50mcg to assess bioavailability via this route? One could measure out the dose and dilute it quite a bit with water to decrease the concentration of alcohol. If at least threshold effects aren't noticed, then it could be slowly bumped up to see if it is indeed active rectally, but just requires larger doses. DPT requires rather large doses rectally compared to snorting it, but it is still very effective. It might be completely inactive plugged too, but I would try that route before I tried to IV it.

I'm really interested in hearing about this compound for educational purposes, but I have to admit I have no desire to try it myself. These days, I'm lucky to be able to find enough time to ride out a good dose of mescaline. There's no way I would dose something that lasts this long. The duration is just a complete turn off for me.

Take care

-gp

 

[crOOk]

Mmmmm... Mescaline...
Yeah, you might be right there, maybe I should try plugging it. Like I said though, it should be active in the higher mcg range, around 500mcg...
What do you guys suggest? Should I go for a large oral dose or decide for plugging it? I don't have very much time to do it, actually it doesn't fit into my schedule at all... Still, the curiosity is too big not to do it.

I've never plugged anything before, I'll need to do some research before I'll be ready. Is it possible that I will feel irritations in the anus? Has this ever been painful to anyone? I don't really feel like getting some kinda local rectal infection. Also, do you think my ass will hold 2 or 3 ml of liquid which I plan to apply with a syringe? The alcohol concentration would be less than 4% in that case. How deep should I go in there?

crOOk

 

[georgiapoppy]

From what's been posted here, it sounds like oral dosing it just going to be a waste of compound. I would try plugging it.

I don't think the alcohol will cause any irritation at that low of a concentration.

I would get an oral syringe and dilute it to around 5ml. I've never had problems holding 5ml until it absorbs. Make sure you administer it all at once though and clamp down as you pull the syringe out so you don't lose any of it. If you have to reinsert the syringe a second time, it's easy to lose the first part of the liquid you already administered.

You can use a bit of water-based lube to make it a bit easier, but don't use anything greasy like Vaseline since it may hinder or slow the absorption. You don't need to get it very deep in there either, but you want to make sure you get it deep enough that it doesn't squirt out as you push the plunger. Push the plunger slowly to avoid it leaking out too. When using a 5ml oral syringe, I typically ease it in as far as I can (about 2.5 inches) push the plunger and clamp down as I pull out the syringe. Voilia! It's really no big deal once you've done it a few times. Just wash your hands and the syringe real well before and after and you don't have anything to worry about.

You squeemish folks just need to get over it. It's a great route for administering many phens that I've tried. Most are very potent via this route so it's great when trying to conserve precious material.

Good luck. If you give it a run, make sure to post back how it goes. I'm interested to hear about this chem even though I probably won't ever touch it myself.

-gp

 

[crOOk]

Thanks for the info! How long does it usually take till the chemical is absorbed? An hour? Less?
I only have standard 1ml and 2ml syringes at hand though, I'll only need one ml for 50ug. Can I just use that kind of syringe instead? It should be long enough, more than 3 inches actually.
How about pain receptors in there? Is it possible that it will burn like intranasal administration? I am kinda worried about that.
Thanks for the info!

crOOk

 

[georgiapoppy]

I find that most things plugged hit much more rapidly that when administered orally. The time it takes would depend on many factors, primarily how quickly the specific compound is taken up into the bloodstream. With 2cd, alerts are felt within minutes and by the 15 minute mark, it starts to climb like a rocket. It and DPT both seem to peak around 45mins when plugged, but this chem could be quicker or longer. Hard to say. You are in unexplored territory here. Assuming it's active and 100% bioavailable when plugged, you should still be very safe at the 50mcg level since the suggested IV dose is 100mcg. I wouldn't go any higher than 50mcg the first time.

You should be fine using the smaller syringes. I've always used a 5ml or 10ml syringe becuase DPT is hard to get into solution. When I've used 2cd, I used smaller amounts of liquid since it dissolves easily into water.

There is certainly the possibility of irritation. I get a little bit with 2cd for like 5mins, but it goes away quickly. Nothing like snorting it though. With that small of an amount of liquid, it will absorb pretty rapidly. The amount of chemical is really small with this one though so I doubt it will cause much if any irritation. More likely any irritation would be a result of the alcohol in the solution. That's why I would dilute it to a few mls if possible.

Another reason to dilute it to a few mls is to get as much of the dose as possible too. The tip of the syringe (the 'deadspace') can hold a good bit of volume that won't be administered. Using a larger volume means you will get more of the drug. Since it's less concentrated there's less drug left in the tip of the syringe.

-gp

 

[crOOk]

I will plug 50ug now, I hope I won't feel much though because I have things to do tomorrow morning...

EDIT: Rectally administered 50ug of the substance, no burn, no leak.

crOOk

 

[crOOk]

It sure would. Don't worry, I will report back. %)

EDIT:
T+00:27 - No effects yet.
T+00:33 - No effects yet.
T+00:49 - No effects yet.
T+01:10 -

crOOk

 

[tathra]

i would just like to point out that the suggested IM dose is 100ug, which should put the IV dose at ~50ug, perhaps even less.

recalling previous experiences of mine with various other substances, i believe IM and rectal doses are pretty close, so 50ug rectal might not be enough. crook, if you get no effects, i suggest 2 more trials, of 75ug and 100ug before you give up completely. of course, wait until tomorrow before you try again; for all we know, you'll start tripping balls in another 2-3 hours.

 

[crOOk]

i would just like to point out that the suggested IM dose is 100ug, which should put the IV dose at ~50ug, perhaps even less.

recalling previous experiences of mine with various other substances, i believe IM and rectal doses are pretty close, so 50ug rectal might not be enough. crook, if you get no effects, i suggest 2 more trials, of 75ug and 100ug before you give up completely. of course, wait until tomorrow before you try again; for all we know, you'll start tripping balls in another 2-3 hours.

Yeah, i agree. No more Phethylamines for me today. I might go straight for 100ug with my next try. I wonder whether I will build up a tolerance or not with such a frequent intake of inactive doses... If I do, the outcome of the experiments should be treated with caution.

Btw, has anyone ever taken a bath on DPT? I might do that tonight. Should be lots of fun. Sorry, OT.

crOOk

 

[georgiapoppy]

I agree with tathra. I wouldn't give up on it yet. It may still take a long time to come up on it rectally as well. If the comeup via IM route takes a while, I would expect rectal to take a while as well. You might be pleasantly surprised yet today.

If not, I agree in bumping the dose up a few more times before calling it quits with the rectal route. As I said, DPT takes quite a bit more when plugged, but it is still very effective once you get there. I would slowly increase it up to at least 200mcg or so before I gave up on plugging it.

I wouldn't bump it any more today though if I were you. I think it would be prudent to wait several more hours before you decide it's not going to have any effects.

Good luck.

-gp

 

[yaesutom]

lol - crook i think you've just built up a tolerance..

I first tried 150ug orally and it worked, barely but it was there.

I took 600ug orally yesterday and i tripped, equal to about .. 2.something mg's of DOB but more visual. I was writing a trip report but my computer crashed.

 

[crOOk]

NICE!
Glad to hear that yaesutom! Can't wait for your report!
Maybe I should wait a week before I go for 100ug rectally or 500ug orally.

crOOk

 

[C6H6]

A usually reliable source has told me that 2mg orally caused a delirium-like state which lasted 2 days. It was a very rough time for the psychonaut as well as for his 'baby-sitter'.

Looking at the Ki, EC50 and Emax data from the Nichols publication I would also predict a VERY steep dose-response-curve:
(R)-Br-DFly: Ki = 0.31 nM; EC50 = 2.7 nM; Emax = 93%
DOB: Ki = 2.2 nM; EC50 = 72 nM; Emax = 79%

So at 8.7x its Ki (R)-Br-DFly causes a 46% response at the 5-HT2A receptor. DOB for comparison requires 32.7x its Ki to cause a 39.5% response. This makes a very steep dose-response-curve.

While a comparison of the Ki values would indicate that (R)-Br-DFly is 7.1x more potent than DOB, this is misleading, because the Ki says nothing about the ability to activate a receptor. Considering the much more relevant EC50 data, (R)-Br-DFly should be 26.7x as potent as DOB, and the racemate about 15x. This would fit to the 100mug i.m. active dose which would correspond to 1.5mg DOB.

Another drawback of Br-DFly is that it's affinity for the anxiogenic 5-HT2C receptor is 3x higher than for the psychedelic 5-HT2A receptor. DOB has about equal affinity for the two receptors. Unfortunately, there are no EC50 data for the 5-HT2C receptor available, but it's likely that Br-DFly has a much higher anxiogenic potential than DOB and other traditional psychedelics.

Br-DFly has a number of rather unfavourable properties which make it a third-class psychedelic and unsuitable for blotters:

- very low and erratic oral bioavailability
- very steep dose-response-curve
- very long, delirium-like trip
- high anxiogenic potential

 

[Smyth]

Another drawback of Br-DFly is that it's affinity for the anxiogenic 5-HT2C receptor is 3x higher than for the psychedelic 5-HT2A receptor. DOB has about equal affinity for the two receptors. Unfortunately, there are no EC50 data for the 5-HT2C receptor available, but it's likely that Br-DFly has a much higher anxiogenic potential than DOB and other traditional psychedelics.

Excuse me, but what is this about? Is there anywhere that I can get some pharmacology for dummies of the SERT receptor. I cant make heads or tails out of this.

I did find this: http://www.acnp.org/g4/GN401000039/Ch039.html if anybody is interested.

 

[crOOk]

@C6H6
Steep dose response curve? High anxiogenic potential? Doesn't sound very yummy to me at all. Especially considering that the trip might last more than a day...
Oh, and thanks for reminding me about the cross-tolerance thing. I actually didn't think about it. Stupid me. I'm not gonna do any other tryptamines or phenethylamines before my next Bromo-Dragonfly dose.

@Blowmonkey
Like I said, I'll have a break of at least a week before dosing again.

Btw, no effect of those 50ug that were applied rectally.

crOOk

 

[C6H6]

These are theoretical considerations which require experimental confirmation. But based on the theory I'm not too keen to be an early guinea pig.

Regarding the anxiogenic activity of 5-HT2C agonists: MK-212 is predominantly a 5-HT2C agonist as can be seen here. And here are some information demonstrating the anxiogenic activity of MK-212 in humans:

 

[CatfishRivers]

^^^^

I've read your posts. Anybody who would give out an unresearched chemical at a rave is irresponsible. Anybody who does research chemical trials without waiting in between to allow for tolerance is also irresponsible.

Not if he includes that data as part of the overall report. Tolerance and cross tolerance data are useful...but his presentation of trials may have been a little over the top without consideration for the overall effect of everything he was ingesting.

The thing about the rave is dumb though...patience is truly a virtue when testing unknown waters. Just imagine the potential ill results of handing out chemicals with so little known about them to people, most of whom would probably have had little time to do their own personal research before ingestion. I mean, even if you figure out a "safe and enjoyable" dose, there are still so many other factors that remain unknown. Interactions with other chemicals/medications. Variability between users and their reactions to it. The potential side effects would probably be mostly unknown after only a few trials by a handful of people as well. So, there is a bunch of reasons why this would be not-so-good a time to start introducing this to "the masses", even if they are experienced with other psychedelics. It's best for now to have planned out experiences in order to build up info about this material first. First learn to fly, then shoot for the stars.

 

[marklar_the_23rd]

50ug was taken orally. no response, but it did take forever to get to sleep. any recommendations for dosage for someone who faints at the sight of a needle?. (why the fuck none of the trip reports mentioned that it was IM'ed i'll never know, unless people are full of shit when they report???)