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Dissociatives The Big & Dandy Amantadine and Memantine thread

ugh, amantadine sux, it doesn't do anything any other anticholinergic delierient would do. take some datura and smoke some weed,'boom' there u go
 
I heard that it increases energy, unlike datura.....maybe you took too much and you didnt get the target ratio for its intended medicinal effects?

Amantadine is also anti-viral, so if you have an undiagnosed virus sapping your energy, there is a chance this could help fight it....not all anti-virals work for every virus though.

Memantine might actually have more risk in some demographics.



For somebody who isnt taking it for anxiety or mood elevation, would you say that it increased energy levels at all? Better than Provigil?
 
I saw some studies that report some benefit for cocaine withdrawal. I'm surly totally wrong but can amantadine ease the stim comedown? Like MDPV or MDXX stuf?

Whow and I saw that amantadine is a IMAO B! Reversible or irreversible? That sound really dangerous...
 
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What a coincidence, I was looking on Wikipedia today which NMDA antagonist I didnt know, and Amantadine, and more importantly, Memantine, were the only on the list that I didnt know. I did some local search without any hope, and the drug its marketed by a lot of brands here, and more importantly, its list 4, so I am sure I will try it very soon... I just wonder why the hell its so damn expensive no matter the brand (Roemmers, Bago, Ivax, Gador, etc)...
Almost all products comes in 10/15mg Memantine per 15 or 30 pills/capsules...

But yeah, reports in Erowid shows clearly this drug could be very dangerous, 'tweaking' your head for a lot of time http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=52958 ["Nearly Neverending Trip"]

Also, does this research means that Memantine does *something* at the MU opiote receptors? http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v31/n1/full/1300760a.html

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"Memantine is also being tested for generalized anxiety disorder, epilepsy, opioid dependence, systemic lupus erythematosus, depression, obsessive compulsive disorder, Tourette Syndrome, problem gambling, attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD),[7] glaucoma, tinnitus, neuropathic pain including Complex Regional Pain Syndrome,[8] pervasive developmental disorders, HIV associated dementia,[9] nystagmus,[10] multiple sclerosis[11] and autism.[12]" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memantine

I really want to try this thing.
 
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Amantadine seems to be very dangerous chemical. An average "recreational" dose is aroun 1.5 g. 1.0 g may be enough to feel the effects, 2.0 can be too much, if you're sensitive to this drug, and 3.0 g is definitely an overdose.

A typical amantadine trip is structured into two phases, dissociation part and delirium part. Visual hallucinations are deliriant-like, and are mostly experienced during the second phase.
Amantadine is quite "dark", produces no euphoria, and can last up to 24 hours. However, there are people who enjoy it.

The most problem with amantadine is "hangover" after-effects. Depending on dose, number of trips and individual sensitivity, they can include: depression, panic attacks, muscle tremors(definitely not a good sign), and other mental "disorders".

Sorry for such a messy description, I'm not speaking from my own experience. I wouldn't touch this drug with a ten foot pole.
 
allium said:
Amantadine seems to be very dangerous chemical. An average "recreational" dose is aroun 1.5 g. 1.0 g may be enough to feel the effects, 2.0 can be too much, if you're sensitive to this drug, and 3.0 g is definitely an overdose.

A typical amantadine trip is structured into two phases, dissociation part and delirium part. Visual hallucinations are deliriant-like, and are mostly experienced during the second phase.
Amantadine is quite "dark", produces no euphoria, and can last up to 24 hours. However, there are people who enjoy it.

The most problem with amantadine is "hangover" after-effects. Depending on dose, number of trips and individual sensitivity, they can include: depression, panic attacks, muscle tremors(definitely not a good sign), and other mental "disorders".

Sorry for such a messy description, I'm not speaking from my own experience. I wouldn't touch this drug with a ten foot pole.
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Indeed:

okasion said:
WARNING
I bought 2 weeks ago 40x15mg pills of Memantine (named Neuroplus, and fucking expensive) because I wanted to take something Ketamine-like.

I did a whole bottle of pure DXM (300mg) and something like 100mg of Memantine (obviously I can't remember well). While I felt some Ketamine deja-vu (like feeling you are 'outside' of your life/world) it wasn't very strong, BUT (and again, WARNING), the next day I couldn't remember anything, I couldn't read nor write in english, everything was mirrored, and I thought I was gonna kill myself.

Slowly, my life made a 360° degree change, and my memory began to work like a computer, I was (still I am) aware of everything, I was more social, more happy.
My tolerance to practically ALL drugs (opiates, benzos, amphetamines, etc.) went really down.

But that day (thank god it was a saturday) I think I won't forget ever.
I still wonder why, how, and what happened, WHAT IS Memantine and how is related to Ketamine.
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tolerance TO memantine

so i used it at 10mg for 2 weeks to reduce my benzo withdrawals (medical, i had them prescribed).

they did a good job, but now i'm left with about 10 x 10 mg memantine pills. i haven't taken them in about 6 days.

at 10 mg i definitely felt a nice psychedelic touch upon the 3rd day, after which a tolerance developed to it, but still wondering if maybe i could get a nice trip off of 40 mg seeing as some bluelighters have already tried higher doses with some people liking them and others saying it's too strange of a trip.
 
Memantine

Memantine is a long-lasting NMDA antagonist sold as a prescription drug for the treatment of Alzheimer's disease and has a common therapeutic dose of 10 mg. It is also a 5HT3 antagonist and a D2 agonist. Further, it reportedly lowers tolerance to amphetamines and opiates. I recently tried a 110 mg recreational dose of memantine and experienced pleasant euphoric/dissociative/psychedelic effects. Though I could still feel the effects the next day, they were substantially reduced and did not impair me so much as to prevent conducting common undemanding chores, which seems to indicate memantine's long duration does not necessarily disqualify it for recreational use. It's D2 agonism did not cause any negative effects for me at this dose. I posted my experience in the More About Memantine thread in Other Drugs Discussion.

The only memantine thread I could find in Psychedelic Drugs ended in 2003 and is archived. Being a dissociative, it's my understanding it should have its own thread in PD. Perhaps the other threads could be merged with this one to get discussion going here? I believe it has significant recreational potential, especially if, as has been suggested, the duration can be reduced by acidifying one's urine to speed elimination.
 
Whoops, didn't see this thread when I made my memantine thread here in PD earlier. Memantine is a long-lasting NMDA antagonist sold as a prescription drug for the treatment of Alzheimer's disease and has a common therapeutic dose of 10 mg. It is also a 5HT3 antagonist and a D2 agonist. Further, it reportedly lowers tolerance to amphetamines and opiates. I recently tried a 110 mg recreational dose of memantine and experienced pleasant euphoric/dissociative/psychedelic effects. Though I could still feel the effects the next day, they were substantially reduced and did not impair me so much as to prevent conducting common undemanding chores, which seems to indicate memantine's long duration does not necessarily disqualify it for recreational use. It's D2 agonism did not cause any negative effects for me at this dose. I posted the following earlier in the Other Drugs thread "More About Memantine":
110 mg oral feels good. The NMDA antagonism I'm sensing is comparable to about 250 mg DXM (oral) or 30 mg ketamine (IM) or 15 mg MXE (IR). Prior to this, I've used memantine at 50 mg, and 70 mg, both in combination with other drugs. With both of those earlier doses taken during the early afternoon the effects were worn off (subjectively) after I woke up the next day. I'm not experiencing any undesirable effects from its D2 agonism, and might be feeling a bit more stout than usual due to its 5HT3 antagonism. The only NMDA antagonists I've used in the past two and half weeks are memantine and one dose of 150 mg DXM (to see its effects with memantine [it had the predicted linear increase]). It's likely that I have a lingering tolerance to MXE that's playing a mitigating role in the intensity and duration of memantines' effects on me, though I don't think the tolerance is very strong. I'm curious as to whether 150 or 200 mg doses could cause proper dissociative effects to begin, but I don't want to risk spending (potentially) 48 hours in a "mant-hole" to find out. That said, at 110 mg I have a pleasant buzz and feel motivated to communicate. I've just added gabapentin and kratom to the mix and suspect I'm coming up on a warm, contented evening.

EDIT: I'll add that though it did take 2-3 hours to fully develop, first alerts from the 110 mg were felt within 20 minutes.
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Things started to get down right trippy last night after I smoked some high grade cannabis (not much either). I had also used 1600mg gabapentin and 5 grams of maeng da kratom, but I think the kratom had mostly subsided when the trippy effects began. I was surprised to be getting fairly intense closed eye visuals. Perhaps they were attributable to the D2 agonism? I know D2 antagonists are used as antipsychotics but I wasn't having thoughts any crazier than is normal for the amount of disassociation I was feeling. This morning I still felt lingering dissociative effects, though they were greatly reduced (I'd say comparable to 100 mg DXM). It'll be awhile before I use memantine again, but next time I think I'll devote a whole day to it and take 160 mg early on a Saturday morning. The psychedelia I was experiencing was really intriguing, just unexpected. It felt funny having a goofy gabapentin buzz alongside it. I may also use some urinary tract infection medication to acidify my urine as that is supposed to help shorten the duration of memantine. It definitely seems like I could have a proper dissociative trip off it at 160 mg, perhaps with a little bump from MXE.
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A few days after this experience I took 70 mg along with small doses of 2-FA and MXE. I've done MXE with 2-FA quite a few times and never experienced anything like the effects I experienced with memantine. It also possessed significant experiential overlap with the memantine/cannabis/gabapentin/kratom combo, so I attribute the effects mostly to memantine, though 70 mg is not that high of a dose so I suspect the contribution of MXE to the overall intensity.

About 3 hours after dosing I began to feel extremely engaged with and passionate about everything I was experiencing. This did not feel very much like MXE mania, though it did seem like a sort of mania (perhaps attributable to the D2 agonism?). In addition to the sheer verve of the effects it felt "groovy," in what I imagine the original sense of that term was: a guiding experience that runs deep. Waves arrived with a pervasive, almost shudder inducing, satisfaction akin to that a deep breath during a yawn can bring, so much so I found myself literally gulping at the air at times. I ended up going out for a cigarette (not common) with my headphones on at four in the damn morning and dancing in my back yard like like a man possessed (also not common behavior for me). So, thumbs up from me. I'm going to give 150-170 mgs a shot eventually, maybe along with urinary tract infection meds to acidify my urine to hopefully shorten the duration, but since I still need to plan for at least 24 hours of not being able to drive it may be awhile.
 
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Yes, I've read those reports. To my mind, the two issues keeping memantine from becoming a great recreational dissociative are its price and duration of action. The first can be addressed by shopping around overseas pharmacies, and the second, theoretically, can be mitigated through the use of methionine, which is cheap and readily available to any online consumers and may be available at convenience stores, and will hopefully help memantiners piss out their product post haste. I advise the plucky consumer and would-be memantine recreationist to try out their dose early on a Saturday morning, so they have a lazy Sunday to use for whatever should things not work out as theorized.
 
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psood0nym said:
Yes, I've read those reports. To my mind, the two issues keeping memantine from becoming a great recreational dissociative are its price and duration of action. The first can be addressed by shopping around overseas pharmacies.
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I have seen this but am a bit surprised you truly found it that nice, I remember hearing another user or two on another forum disliking it while simply using it for tolerance aversion, though the guy was kind of a weirdo.... Could you describe it a little bit more, such as what sort of dissociative it felt most similar to? Fairly interested in this.
 
^Yes, I like it a lot. It's not a "holing" sort of dissociative, though I imagine it could be -- I just wouldn't want to be in a state like that for 10 plus hours or who knows how long? It's hard for me to say since combinations were involved but when I was coming up on the 110 mg there was nothing else in my system and of all the dissociatives I've tried (DXM, K, 3-MeO-PCP, 3-ho-PCP, 4-MeO-PCP, nitrous) I suppose it most resembled a plus two dose of 4-MeO-PCP. Other reports have likened it to ketamine, but who know what their points of reference are? It's an NMDA antagonist, so it has that characteristic staticy, "engaging the world from inside a big tin can" sort of vibe, but then it has D2 agonism, which I'm guessing is behind the driving, "makes you say oohh" and thrust your pelvis out sort of revved up feeling. Plus it has 5HT3 antagonism, which has unknown influences and potential synergistic effects, though given 5HT3's associations I think the effects of antagonism at the receptor are likely to be pleasurable or at least anxiolytic and stabilizing. It's definitely an atypical dissociative, and clearly its lengthy nature is not ideal. You're committing to at least 24 hours of being functionally dissociated and in takes three hours to plateau, so K-tards hoping for "mant holes" should probably stumble on and search elsewhere. For me it's looking more like something that lays the groundwork for a long weekend of debauchery, or, at lower doses, a motivational disinhibiting stimulatory kind of drug. I do find the buzz quite pleasurable, though, that's for sure.
 
psood0nym said:
For me it's looking more like something that lays the groundwork for a long weekend of debauchery, or, at lower doses, a motivational disinhibiting stimulatory kind of drug. I do find the buzz quite pleasurable, though, that's for sure.
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Ha, that was my thought as well. Does it seem like a good one to lay the groundwork with? Such as taking a lower to medium dose of this to get a dissociative glow going then consuming something more powerful like MXE/K for a hole type experience. With the anatogism at 5HT3 how do you think it would effect psychedelics(I can't remember which ones touch this...)?
 
Yes, for me, the 100 mg dosage range lands me in auspicious grounds, a highly manageable psychological landscape fit for launching in pretty much any direction. It's a feeling of being comfortably engaged and raring to go, so in that respect it's a choice combo drug. Still, I'm intrigued by the notion of taking higher doses of it on its own because it has such a vivacious character for me. There's a hum to it, like everywhere I go buried power lines lend a little bounce to my gait.
 
Blowmonkey said:
I'm more interested in Neramexane myself, Memantine on steroids.
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Can Neramexane be included in the topic scope? It most definitely is a related molecule and serious NMDA antagonist and I'm intrigued to say the least.

Blowmonkey: how would you define Neramexane as being "Memantine on steroids?"
 
psood0nym said:
Yes, for me, the 100 mg dosage range lands me in auspicious grounds, a highly manageable psychological landscape fit for launching in pretty much any direction. It's a feeling of being comfortably engaged and raring to go, so in that respect it's a choice combo drug. Still, I'm intrigued by the notion of taking higher doses of it on its own because it has such a vivacious character for me. There's a hum to it, like everywhere I go buried power lines lend a little bounce to my gait.
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Well your certainly making it sound intriguing. I feel almost like I can at least relate to what your saying as well. I'll certainly be interested to see where higher doses take you!
 
Asante said:
Can Neramexane be included in the topic scope? It most definitely is a related molecule and serious NMDA antagonist and I'm intrigued to say the least.

Blowmonkey: how would you define Neramexane as being "Memantine on steroids?"
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I'm also interested in this. Neramexane still hasn't been released, though -- not that it couldn't be obtained by other means. A cursory glance at some abstracts indicates it's a stronger nicotinic acetylcholine receptor antagonist than memantine and that 40 mg oral is considered a "weak" dose, which seemingly doesn't make it seem all that much stronger than memantine. I'm curious to know any figures comparing its efficacy as an NMDA antagonist to memantine, as well as any data on half-life so we can maybe guess at duration. I didn't see anything about it being a D2 agonist or a 5HT3 antagonist like memantine (again I didn't look for long) though, so if it doesn't act on these I'm not sure it makes sense to think of it as more qualitatively powerful than memantine, as such would ostensibly just make it a structurally related but presumably subjectively different drug.

Also: I was stuck with a spontaneous gut-feeling to give it a shot, and 40 mg 6-APDB intramuscularly injected on top of 90 mg memantine/kratom/low MXE resulted in a profoundly affecting mystical state for me last night. It was highly fascinating. Most drug induced ecstatic states for me are orgasm-like, with sharp increases in autonomic arousal, heavy breathing, increased heart rate, sobbing from overwhelming beauty and gratitude for mere existence etc. -- very much like a spirtual-aesthetic version of what I imagine the emotional component of the female orgasm to be like -- but this could not have been a calmer experience. It was strange: a radical qualatative shift toward extreme contentment and acceptance with powerful euphoria that almost induced sleep! It gave the subjective impression of even having slightly reduced body temperature, which was very odd.

I have A LOT of experience with extreme euphoric states of different shades and I've never felt anything quite like this. This was a psychelic experience that was wrapped up with notions of being "outside" of life smiling back at myself and being completely confident about death and at ease with my mortality. For about an hour afterward I kept considering listening to music or posting here, but I couldn't be bothered to do anything but pace around in silence in awe of what happened -- I was simply too satisfied. One previous IM 6-APDB experience with the same dose in combination with MXE did not produce anything like this, more just the expected stimulated empathogenic euphoria. This experience seemed to be influenced by memantine, as it felt like a crumbling of defenses at that same deep-chord-plucking soul-string vibratory level as memantine. I'm out of both memantine and 6-APDB, but if I can replicate anything even close to this it would be worth serious further therapeutic investigation. Also, recent MXE use leading up to the 90 mg of memantine seemed to caused cross-tolerance that reduced the expected intensity of memantine relative to what I felt earlier from 110 mg memantine following an extended MXE break.
 
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