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Dissociatives The Big & Dandy Amantadine and Memantine thread

^I wouldn't downplay the 6-APDB, its caused a very similar state for me. Only high dose mescaline provided such a mixture of feeling absolutely estatic, a strong feeling of empathy, and a true feeling of oneness/extremely serene calm. I also felt the similarly about mortality and was able to let go of much that night leading me to the verge of tears as well . Very interesting to hear about the experience as well as Neramexane!
 
I finally tried that 160mg dose of memantine I recommended earlier. I hadn't used any dissassociatives for two weeks, which is usually enough time to make a noticeable difference for me with MXE, though I'm certain continuing cross tolerance played a mitigating role in my experience.

As usual, I began to feel memantine's effects within 30 minutes after dosing, though it took a full 3 hours for those effects to plateau. It's hard to say for sure since I haven't used more familiar dissociatives around the time to establish a reference point, but my impression from this 160 mg dose and doses previous is that memantine is a qualitatively unique dissociative. For me, its effects are focused in the head more than any others', providing a spacey, far-removed, "helium head" kind of buzz rather than the fuzzy, noodle legged anesthetic body effects characteristic of ketamine, nitrous, or the early stages of MXE intoxication. I'm certainly impaired, occasionally loosing the train of a conversation for instance, but even at this high dose I feel little in the way of anesthesia or mania. I have to conclude that the sense of extreme "engagement" and those moments of wild lust for life I alluded to earlier during past memantine experiences were a product of the memantine/MXE combo. I have a lot of MXE experience, so I'm certain that what I described was contributed to by both drugs rather than mistakenly being representative of, for instance, just an especially manic MXE trip that occurred coincidentally.

While I wasn't dancing outside in my underwear during this trip, I still certainly felt good. There was a stabilizing quality to the feeling. I've not been diagnosed, nor do I suspect I suffer from, any psychiatric disorder, so I don't mean "stabilizing" as it might be understood in such a sense. I mean that the attitude of detached contentment towards one's own life that is characteristic of many different dissociatives is a particularly prominent quality of memantine for me. More, this stable temperament persisted after smoking cannabis, a drug whose effects typically override this quality when I combine it with other dissociatives.

Though I was still plateaued 12 hours after ingestion, I found sleep easy with the aid of 50 mg of diphenhydramine and a stiff drink. I awoke with the same pleasant and self-assured feeling that has stayed with me to this night: an extremely prolonged pleasant dissociative afterglow that is only impairing to any common task if I give myself over to it. I assume this resilience to memantine's lengthy effects owes mostly to cross tolerance rather than fast metabolism, since others have described sincere doubts about their motor abilities well over 24 hours after initially dosing despite having taken far less than me. MXE or another dissociative (and probably a strong tryptamine) will likely figure into my next memantine excursion, though I may give 200mg a shot on its own before I include anything else just to make sure I'm not missing anything dramatic. Though I was never "carried away" by the effects of 160mg, I remain a big fan of the substance.
 
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Interesting that you would find memantine at all recreational. I used 100mg of the stuff and the best way I could describe it was "DXM lite" - even at 20mg, I got that weird feeling that DXM gives you that you have a medicine head and you feel like you're swollen (best way I can describe it, like your body feels larger than it actually is) but I stopped messing with it when I started getting respiratory depression from it. I probably am the "weirdo" that Help?!?! is referring to :p

It was a godsend for tolerance and withdrawal though. I used it for benzos and alcohol both but the respiratory issues turned me off of it. It also has some cardiac properties when mixed with some substances so be careful. I had a negative reaction with known-good MDMA (meaning I had consumed those same moon rocks from the same batch and it was in a cobalt vial in a wooden chest that was closed in my closet like the rest of my chems) that ended up giving me a significantly elevated pulse (160 if I remember correctly). I also had a similar cardiac event with 4-HO-MET which never had caused any sort of bodyload to me before - I ended up having to abort that experience with Klonopin which didn't work after 3mg so I went to alcohol as a last resort.

The literature that came with the box did warn that cardiac events were seen in clinical trials (Sun Pharma brand if I remember correctly) - I wasn't the only one who reported adverse cardiac events with it either so be careful pushing the dose and definitely be careful taking any substances within a few days of using it given its extremely long half-life.

It did have a curious effect on alcohol though. It added a sort of blissful euphoria to alcohol on top of the fact that it abolished tolerance to nothing. I went from needing a 12 pack to catch a buzz to getting a euphoric buzz off of two beers and I was trashed after five.

I was using 40mg once a day for awhile.

I use DXM now for tolerance prevention and reversal and I just avoid other substances altogether, at least until I'm benzo free.
 
What an interesting topic. I will try memantine too when I have some time to kill.

, and the second, theoretically, can be mitigated through the use of methionine
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Maybe a combinaison of methionine and piracetam can be usefull to be free of residual dissociative side effects the next day?

Magicalkat, did you have benzos on your system when you felt cardiac effects from memantine? Maybe that's just some potentialisation of accumulated benzos metabolites which slow down your heart?

Oh, I have a last question. Can memantine be plugged?
 
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thikal said:
Magicalkat, did you have benzos on your system when you felt cardiac effects from memantine? Maybe that's just some potentialisation of accumulated benzos metabolites which slow down your heart?

Oh, I have a last question. Can memantine be plugged?
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The cardiac effects I'm speaking of thikal were the result of mixing memantine with a dopaminergic stimulant although I have no idea what the problem was with 4-HO-MET. I did a few combos and all of them were harsher than without the memantine - the one that surprised me the most was the MDMA. I mean this MDMA was amazing. Some of my individual rocks weighed over 3 grams before I crushed them and they were only slightly tinted green when they were whole but when ground, they went completely translucent white. There's no way there was some impurity in there that would have stimulated me to the point that my resting was 160. I only did a 150mg bomb of the stuff anyway. I suppose there is something to be said for tolerance though.

And yeah, I had Valium in my system throughout - I have to take it BID.

As for plugging, I never tried it, but if you can get around the binders I don't see why not. It is the hydrochloride salt and is highly water soluble.
 
MagickalKat777 said:
Interesting that you would find memantine at all recreational. I used 100mg of the stuff and the best way I could describe it was "DXM lite" - even at 20mg, I got that weird feeling that DXM gives you that you have a medicine head and you feel like you're swollen (best way I can describe it, like your body feels larger than it actually is) but I stopped messing with it when I started getting respiratory depression from it. I probably am the "weirdo" that Help?!?! is referring to :p

It was a godsend for tolerance and withdrawal though. I used it for benzos and alcohol both but the respiratory issues turned me off of it. It also has some cardiac properties when mixed with some substances so be careful. I had a negative reaction with known-good MDMA (meaning I had consumed those same moon rocks from the same batch and it was in a cobalt vial in a wooden chest that was closed in my closet like the rest of my chems) that ended up giving me a significantly elevated pulse (160 if I remember correctly). I also had a similar cardiac event with 4-HO-MET which never had caused any sort of bodyload to me before - I ended up having to abort that experience with Klonopin which didn't work after 3mg so I went to alcohol as a last resort.

The literature that came with the box did warn that cardiac events were seen in clinical trials (Sun Pharma brand if I remember correctly) - I wasn't the only one who reported adverse cardiac events with it either so be careful pushing the dose and definitely be careful taking any substances within a few days of using it given its extremely long half-life.

It did have a curious effect on alcohol though. It added a sort of blissful euphoria to alcohol on top of the fact that it abolished tolerance to nothing. I went from needing a 12 pack to catch a buzz to getting a euphoric buzz off of two beers and I was trashed after five.

I was using 40mg once a day for awhile.

I use DXM now for tolerance prevention and reversal and I just avoid other substances altogether, at least until I'm benzo free.
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I found it recreational on its own, though not spectacularly so. As discussed earlier, I think where it really shines is in combos and, potentially, as a psychiatric therapy. It's strange about the perceived respiratory depression and MDMA contraindicative symptoms. Respiratory depression was not reported in clinical trials so far as I know and it's not contraindicated with anything. I used it with 6-APDB and experienced no negative reactions. The cardiac symptoms don't appear to be commonly reported, either. We are talking about a medication used mostly with Alzheimer's patients, so I expect some worrisome symptoms to be reported that probably aren't too much of a concern for the typical recreational user (still, good of you to note).
thikal said:
Maybe a combinaison of methionine and piracetam can be usefull to be free of residual dissociative side effects the next day?

Magicalkat, did you have benzos on your system when you felt cardiac effects from memantine? Maybe that's just some potentialisation of accumulated benzos metabolites which slow down your heart?

Oh, I have a last question. Can memantine be plugged?
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Yes, I imagine that combo would go far in reducing next day effects -- the first helps eliminate it from the body more quickly and the second has been reported anecdotally to reduce the effects of ketamine. I expect work rectally, though as MagicalKat mentions there's all those pill binders (I imagine 11+ undissolved pill remnants might be annoying sitting there, though as long as they were crushed it might increase the potency).
 
Man, I only wish I'd seen this thread sooner.

allium said:
Amantadine seems to be very dangerous chemical. An average "recreational" dose is aroun 1.5 g.
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More importantly, Amantadine is an antiviral! Misuse of antimicrobial drugs contributes to resistance, and nothing says "misuse of antimicrobials" like taking antivirals recreationally to get high. Influenza is already largely resistant to amantadine, but it is still useful to treat other viral infections, including rabies!

Using amantadine recreationally isn't just putting yourself at risk from the chemical. Recreational use of amantadine helps to degrade the usefulness of an extremely valuable medical tool, and potentially causes harm to everyone.

The upshot: please, please, please, do not use amantadine recreationally! Memantine, which seems to lack antiviral activity at recreational doses, is fine.
 
Well bradycardia and tachycardia have both been reported for memantine alone just not commonly.

The perceived breathing issues could be related to anxiety for sure but on another board that is no longer around, I wasn't the only one to report breathing issues with it. Like DXM, it made me stop smoking as well so it could have been the "freeze" effect on the cilia from recent smoking cessation. There are lots of plausible explanations that would be completely unrelated to the drug just like anything else though for sure.

EDIT: Yeah, I would never touch amantadine. Interesting that it is useful with rabies - I didn't realize they had anything that was useful for rabies!

The fact that she maintained most of her cognitive functioning sounds promising too - I wonder how much of that had to do with the amantadine.
 
I mixed memantine without problem with GBL, MDPV, Noctran, methylone, cocaine free base, and other stuff I don't remember without any bad cardiac feeling. But that's just anecdotal... Thanks for the answer. (And for the plugging thing, I read that memantine isn't really soluble in water for injection in a thread on bluelight, but It don't say that it can't be absorbed in the rectum so I have to try ehehe, maybe usefull road for lessen the duration a little bit)
 
I used mematine again, this time at 140mg with repeated 15 mg doses of methoxetamine, and I can confirm that once again the deeply satisfying effects I was raving about earlier were thoroughly the effects of the combination and not predominately of MXE alone. I watched an anime called RahXephon: The Motion Picture, which was about as much fun as I can imagine having watching a movie. Some critics complained they were lost because too much of the story was cut in making the film, which was adapted from a series I've not seen, but I understood what was being talked about the whole time. It had a lot of lofty concepts and dialog, so I can understand why some might get lost, but despite the fact that the combo does cause some cognitive impairment it didn't seem to matter when it came to following fantastical ideas. The next day I was still slightly dissociated and went to the gym to do handball practice for cardio. This involves smacking a small blue ball off the walls,floor, and ceiling of a racquetball court with a cupped palm and letting it bounce as few times as possible before hitting it against the front wall again. I've never hit the ball so effortlessly and consistently! In appearance, the way I was playing is to handball as the "Drunken Master" of kung-fu is to martial arts. It was so easy to stagger around and know right where the ball was going to be. The phrase "loose goose beast mode" popped into my head spontaneously to describe it, which made me laugh. The whole day comprised the afterglow, which was more satisfying than any I've ever had before.
 
I remember having some interest in Memantine a while back, but I'm not sure if I totally understand its effect. I've recently seen it pop up on a couple of nootropics vendor sites, and am curious what possible effects this could have as typically NMDA receptor antagonists strike me as the antithesis of nootropics. Maybe it's just another case of a supplement which is not necessarily a nootropic but just a novel chemical being vended onto these websites, but the fact that it has possible recreational effects make me wary.

I have extensively experimented with other dissociatives, but this one seems very peculiar, at least pharmacologically-speaking. Have any of you guys tried Memantine in a typical prescription dosing regimen, and if so, would you say you received any benefits from it, either short or long-term?
 
^ It is wonderful at 40mg a day for tolerance issues but it has a head fog associated with it the first week or so you use it that reminds you of coming up on DXM but it never goes anywhere.

It also makes alcohol into a wonderfully euphoric experience and cuts your tolerance for it to zero, eliminating the hangover because the body has to process much less alcohol.

It adds something to any combo but not always in a good way.

I found it to be interesting but with its long half-life, I'd be really cautious with the dose. It is completely irresponsible to sell it as a bulk nootropic. The literature that came with it warned about psychoactivity at high doses and said not to mix it with DXM and ketamine.
 
Grinders Kiefers said:
I remember having some interest in Memantine a while back, but I'm not sure if I totally understand its effect. I've recently seen it pop up on a couple of nootropics vendor sites, and am curious what possible effects this could have as typically NMDA receptor antagonists strike me as the antithesis of nootropics. Maybe it's just another case of a supplement which is not necessarily a nootropic but just a novel chemical being vended onto these websites, but the fact that it has possible recreational effects make me wary.

I have extensively experimented with other dissociatives, but this one seems very peculiar, at least pharmacologically-speaking. Have any of you guys tried Memantine in a typical prescription dosing regimen, and if so, would you say you received any benefits from it, either short or long-term?
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If they're selling it as a nootropic that's a hell of a stretch. It's shown "modest" improvement as a treatment for Alzheimer's disease ... so yeah, I assume from that they're thinking it must be a smart drug? I don't think Bluelight is the place to look for people taking memantine as prescribed. Not many Alzheimer's patients here. What I find interesting about it is its combination of NMDA antagonism with 5HT3 antagonism. I've previously stumbled across profoundly euphoric effects combining high dose ondansetron, a selective 5HT3 antagonist, with DXM -- though limited tests in others showed this reaction to be idiocyncratic, even if it was still reactive in other ways. So to find another drug with this shared mechanism of action that puts me in a similarly fantastic mood when combined with MXE, and to have now repeated it, is interesting. Memantine has other pharmacological effects as well of course, but, yes, still very interesting ...
 
Thanks for the input, guys. Sorry, by "prescribed dosing regimen", I just meant something like 10mg twice daily or 20mg once daily as opposed to larger recreational dosages. I would agree that any nootropic qualities it may possess would be a hell of a stretch - sort of like how Phenibut appears on many nootropics vendor sites while it doesn't appear to have any cognitive or memory-enhancing qualities. I guess what I was getting at was that Memantine sounds interesting to me, but based on this thread, it is hard to tell whether it is useful as a recreational drug or as some sort of supplement. I'll probably get around to trying it out one of these days when I have some extra money.
 
I recently used memantine at 110 mgs with 135 mg DXM (pure powder) and 13 mg of 3-Meo-PCP. The effects further confirmed my earlier interpretation of the phenomenal MXE/memantine combination as owing substantially to memantine. While not quite as great as the earlier MXE/memantine combinations, this most recent experience had a similarly satisfying, deeply grooved euphoria, like an eye-rolling back scratch for the psyche. At some point I'll have to try it with ketamine.
 
Wonder why it's here in PD. I took mematine for tolerance (wasn't helpful) to adderall and used it with dxm to have a confusing day. Think it's garbage.

There are much better drugs you can take in combos.
 
It is an NMDA antagonist like dissociative drugs (e.g. DXM / ketamine / MXE), if that wasn't obvious already it does explain the simplistic pharmacological rationale behind why Jamshyd probaby posted it here in PD. And why it got centralized instead of moved.
But I'm not sure in what regard people confirmed that high-dose amantadine or memantine experiences can be similar as far as psychedelic dissociative potential goes...

I still wonder about it and probably would have tried it if I was still in my experimental phase. :)
 
^I certainly wasn't claiming it was comparable to more common recreational dissociatives at a high dose but I did mean to communicate that in my experience it adds an extraordinarily satisfying and motivational dimension not just to MXE but to 3-MeO-PCP as well (though the effect is not as pronounced as with MXE). I don't think it's "garbage" on its own by any stretch, just that its real value for me as a recreational substance and potential therapeutic agent is in combination -- though I could see it maybe functioning as an effective anti-depressant at lower doses with little risk of abuse potential compared to other NMDA antagonists that might be explored for such a role.
 
I don't know, it says right in the literature that comes with Admenta (Sun Pharma India brand memantine) that an overdose had no lasting effects but had a psychotomimetic response. They don't say much about it but I can certainly see higher doses of memantine being more like traditional NMDA antagonists. Even at 60mg, it "feels" like you have taken DXM but has no actual psychotomimetic response, just a weird body feeling that hints at it.

That said, I would be cautious escalating the doses to higher ranges because of its propensity to cause problems with respiration.
 
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