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Dissociatives The Big & Dandy Amantadine and Memantine thread

**cough-cough** i think i cought the alzheimers! gimmie my Ebixa tablets... ALL OF EM!!


PLEASE tell me someone has tried these! it sounds too good to be true....better than K avaliable at your local pharmacy?? FOR REAL!>
 
ok wow a great link..a freakin goldmine of info when one searches for 'memantine'..i don't understand half of it, and i wasn't able to find the specific page you mentioned about it acting on other receptors and such, but i found something i thought some here might find interesting, if not possibly a bit dissapointing..

..it gives a quick overview of how earlier nmda antagonists (i assume these are the ones we are most familiar with) had potential in treatment, but had too many psychomimetic 'side effects', but how the new breed of nmda-antagonists including memantine have less 'side effects', while still providing the potential for treating these diseases in the brain..almost like they breeded a low-morphine producing poppy that still has good tasting seed..and i assume this abstract is descibing commonly prescribed doses, so lower levels may provide 'their' benificial effects, but that doesnt mean higher levels won't potentaily provide 'ours'..heh..anywayz, a little perspective..


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entr...t_uids=14619404&dopt=Abstract&itool=iconabstr

The initial promise of the N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) receptor antagonists gave hope for the therapeutic treatment of neurological disorders, which ultimately was unfulfilled. In many cases, their adverse psychotomimetic effects were too severe for them to be used therapeutically in the way that most had envisaged. The last decade has seen significant progress in our understanding of the NMDA receptor complex and the site(s) of action of various uncompetitive antagonists. In particular, this has led to the development of a family of low-affinity, uncompetitive, cation channel antagonists that seem to offer many of the benefits of the older channel blockers but with a more acceptable side effect profile. Drugs such as memantine have demonstrated beneficial effects in clinical trials for Alzheimer's disease and ischemia, with few adverse side effects. These, and other new experimental agents, are demonstrating that it may yet be possible to tap the enormous potential of NMDA receptor antagonists as therapeutic drugs, without necessarily incurring the adverse side effects associated with the first generation compounds.
 
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old B&D mem

OPs merged:

knockout_mice said:
Memantine is an uncompetitive NMDA antagonsit with a really long half-life (60-100 hours). I read some old threads here and experience reports on erowid, but I didn't find enough information to decide if it's worth trying or not.

200px-Memantine.svg.png


Check these if you're interested:

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/306985-More-about-Memantine
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=32398

From Wikipedia:



It has the same binding site like magnesium, but it has a higher affinity. Therefore it blocks the Ca2+ influx by NMDA activation when a pathologically high dose of glutamate is released, but when there's a lower concentration of glutamate, memantine can't bind to the channel and allows the normal ion influx, so it doesn't disrupt so aggressively the NMDA dependent neurotransmission like non-competitive antagonists (ketamine).

Memantine is also a dopamine D2 receptor agonist, 5-HT3 receptor and Alpha-7 nAChR antagonist.
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atara EDIT: In order to maintain the usefulness of adamantane-based antiviral drugs, it is critical that adamantane not be used recreationally. If you are interested in the adamantane dissociatives, please, stick to memantine!

In my on-going efforts to spread the divine word about sacred Dissociative Anaesthetics, I decided to start this thread on a somewhat atypical and litte-known class of non-selective NMDA-antagonists.

To my knowledge, there is only a single trip report on Amantadine in existence (its on BL, search) and it is an apparent overdose (2-3g when a regular dose is 100mg!!). The effects from that report along sound to me like a cross between DXM and datura, which actually makes perfect sense since Amantadine, besides being an NMDA antagonist, also has some (weak?) anticholinergic action. Other than that, I think I read a few breif reports here and there reporting feeling hte dopaminergic mood-lift of the drug when taking it for its indicated use (as anti-viral).

I have finally managed to acquire a box of Amantadine. An hour ago I just popped a single 100mg pill just to test for atypical reactions, normal reactions, and the like. It not out of question that it will be influenced by the 30mg temazepam I took 3 hours before it. Still though, I am used enough to benzos and NMDA antagonists to see how well they each meet and greet. And so far? I will say this - I feel a very wonderful but mild mood-lift and sharpening of my senses/thinking (I would say it feel more like Nicotine than anything else!), whereas my current benzo taper has been making me depressed, grumpy, and of course very stupid.

I'll be experimenting more with Amantadine later for sure, perhaps at slightly higher doses, and report back. I am crossing my fingers that it will be a good mood-stabelizer a la my low-dose K regimens.

I will also not lie to you: I will be trying Nitrous (tonight?) and (later) Ketamine while I'm on it ;)

I'll keep reporting back!

---

As for Memantine, I have yet to experience it myself due to its rediculously high prices, but there are a couple of reports here that seem to make it out as something very interesting...
 
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I feel a very wonderful but mild mood-lift and sharpening of my senses/thinking (I would say it feel more like Nicotine than anything else!),
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Hmm, does tobacco iteself have NMDA antangonist properties? Just out of curiosity...
 
Just be careful, please Jamshyd.

I'm interested in what you have to say about the effects. Just work up slowly. I know you will, jus' sayin'.

peace,
samadhi
 
I really do appreciate your concern, my friend, and I definitely will be careful.

If it is of ny comfort to you, my personal aim with Amantadine is medicinal, not recreational. It is therefore unlikely that I will be going much higher than the medicinal dose.

To update, now 4 hours later the same feeling seems to be maintained. Its a definite feeling atributable to the drug, not to anything else. It it, for the most part, dopaminergic. I feel surprisingly refreshed and motivated for someone who has relapsed to benzo addiction and is just starting to kick it. I had a little nap, and had the most vivid, lucid dreams I have ever had, to the point of thinking I actually woke up and went to watch TV with my uncle and have conversations, only to really wake up and rmember that my uncle lives two continents away! Mind you these were not hallucinations, I was aware that they were dreams.

I would like to remind, though, that there is no "buzz" to speak of... only something like having smoked a hookah with the nmda-antagonist "signature" on it.

Swilly: Good question. I will look into that. My intuition says no, though.
 
Update:

Fuck, this is really nice!!

I really, really, really, REALLY hope that these are simply the normal effects of the drug and not a synergy between it and the benzos. Beause if so, this IS doing what I was hoping it would do: I feel VERY stable mood-wise, no anxiety, and most importantly: I have motivation to make my life better and the confidence to do so. This is what I use Ketamine in low doses for. I also get the bonus of being protected against certain viruses :p

PLEASE PLEASE let this be the normal effect of amantadine. It would suck if this is just a first-trial thing, or if it is a synergy, or worse: if it comes at a horrible side-effect price....

After this initial trial (the drug has a long, long half-life), I will do my best to taper the benzos down as quickly as possible (this was a small relapse, so it shouldn't be difficult). I will not take amantadine any more for a while (especially that I have a few other things waiting to be tried =D), and then come back to it on its own and see if it produces the same effect.... wish me luck, everyone :)
 
So is it my understanding that you've gotten these effects from 100mg alone, before the introduction of ketamine and/or nitrous? Or was that just a dip in the pool to gauge the temperature, as it were. I must admit this is quite intrigueing, I've long been a proponant of the motivational/spiritual headspace the traditional dissociatives are capable of producing, although the most readily available have long since been exhausted of their capacity for such (for me).

I can't wait until I hear back from you on your second trial run, as it seems this chemical is readily available without prescription.

Good luck to you friend.
 
Amantadine and Memantine are 2 disassociatives I would love to try. I still want to try tiletamine also even though the general concensus is that people dont like it...
 
^I have a street near my house where someone, for gods knows what reason, wrote in big white spray paint "Tiletamine Corner"....it always makes me laugh, why on earth did someone write that??? :) I moved in about 8 months ago and it was a brilliant discovery. Unfortuantely, everytime I drive around a corner now, I think the word tiletamine- I don't even know anything about the drug either. Thats my tale.

edit: I have found low dose anticholinergics to be relaxing and actually claryfying, which is unexpected. They don't dumb me down at all, just allow space for thoughrs to actually form. Higher doses- well.....make sure you don't take too much Jammy and amp up the anticholine aspect. ;)
 
^ That is interesting, about anticholinergics. I suppose that is why Hydroxyzine is prescribed for anxiety.

I don't think I'll ever take higher than the medicinal doses for amantadine. Memantine, I might try going higher, since it seems to carry less risk.

2C: This was amantadine alone (well, and my daily regimen of benzos). No Nitrous or Ketamine.

It seems to be waning this morning but it still feels the same: like having smoked a nice bowl of Tobacco in a hookah, only lasting a day and a half.

I will note that I did have trouble sleeping, although this could be because I had a cup of coffee in the evening. However, when I eventually did, I had the most vivid dreams one can have. And generally I rarely remember my dreams (especially with a benzo habit).
 
^ You might be absolutely right, but one thing is absolute true: it has nothing to do with this thread.

Update, according to this site, Amantadine's cholinergic effects are not present in medicinal doses:

Time for some pubmed... ;)
 
^ You might be absolutely right, but one thing is absolute true: it has nothing to do with this thread.
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:D

Interesting that you said it felt like nicotine AND smoking tobacco and the vivid dreams, reminds of when I used to try to quit cigarettes with nicotine transdermal patches; crazy crazy KRAZY dreams.
 
Yeah, Nicotine patches (I use them occasionally as non-addictive stims - non-smoker here) do indeed give crazy dreams...

So today i took the same dose as yesterday but took both 100mg pills at the same time. No difference was noted, and in fact the effects were less pronounced, leading me to believe that yesterday's excitement was indeed just a cherry-popping thing. I still felt a mild dopaminergic effect, but I did experience some mood swings (then again, K's mood-stabelizing effect takes a few days to start working). One interesting thing is its synergy with benzos... it seems to weaken their overall effect, but just like with yesterday, when I took my daily dose of temazepam, I just lay there and had the WEIRDEST dreams ever.

I am going to reconfirm insomnia - and this is in fact one of its reported side-effects. This is requiring me to take large doses of benzos and even alcohol and thereby interfering with my tapering.

So i decided to pull the plugs on this one until my body is relatively back to normal. I might give it one more trial tomorrow (if for nothing, then for trying it with N2O ;)), but that would be the last of it for now. I will post a conclusion tomorrow about this first trial with a new NMDA antagonist.

However, I do feel what samadhi is feeling. This drug seems to have a strange vibe to it - I'm not talking about the effects themselves, just the drug in general. I would think I would be slightly more comfortable experimenting with Memantine...
 
I must absolutely stress so people don't waste thier money that Amantadine is NOT a dissociative, in my appearant "OD" there were absolutely no noticable NMDA FX whatsoever, no dopamine FX either, just antichlorogenic visuals and nausea NRG zapped from me.

In animal studies memantine but NOT amantadine substituted for PCP in rats.
 
is amantadine cholinergic or anticholinergic? Cholinergic actions would certainly be consistent with crazy dreams, because during REM sleep the ascending monoaminergic projections are shut down but there is lots of cholinergic activity.
 
I've never tried Amantadine
and I've not yet sampled Tiletamine,
I hadn't even heard of Memantine
but I sure do like me some Ketamine!

<3
 
toxide said:
I must absolutely stress so people don't waste thier money that Amantadine is NOT a dissociative, in my appearant "OD" there were absolutely no noticable NMDA FX whatsoever, no dopamine FX either, just antichlorogenic visuals and nausea NRG zapped from me.

In animal studies memantine but NOT amantadine substituted for PCP in rats.
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I would say thats true.

My last dose was 300 mg the day after the last day reported (2 days ago) and I personally found it useless as a mood-stabeliser. It certainly is not dissociative, even though it has the same "signature" that things like low-dose DXM or high-dose cat's claw have.

That aside, I found amantadine to actually WEAKEN nitrous oxide!!!

It also seems to fuck up my reaction to Ketamine... the day after use (it was still in my system I assume) my tolerance to Ketamine was very unusually high, and the ketamine itself felt more like PCP (more schizo, less ataxia, more useless).

Bottom line is: I have stopped taking Amantadine and my opinion on it right now is that it is worthless. This doesn't mean that this is the end, its just that it isn't something I am interested in anymore.

Memantine is next on the list :)
 
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