Sexual Preferences vs "Transphobia"

[mal3volent]

Just in general, with very few obvious exceptions regarding age/consent, I think it's very strange when people try to police the sexuality of others. It's weird when right wingers do it -- it's weird when other people do it too. If you aren't hurting anyone else you should be free to fuck or not fuck anyone you want, for whatever reasons you choose.

I think the point electrum was making originally is that sexuality (biologically speaking) only exists to enable reproduction. Whatever else is layered on top of that due to genetic variation, environmental factors, personal preference, etc ... our "default" wiring is heterosexuality. That's just like, an evolutionary reality, or whatever. It doesn't invalidate homosexuals or trans people for heterosexuals to feel a connection between their sexuality and reproduction.

 

[phantom_alyce]

@Cream Gravy? Hyperbolic? There's a reason why men and women are seperated in prisons. Trans women on HRT after a long enough time are often weaker than even cis women. And those men are CLEARLY going to go after a trans woman. Not hyperbolic at all, it's very real.

 

[arrall]

No... don't be so hyperbolic.

Men get raped too. What should we do, throw every single person into segregated housing so no one can ever touch anyone?

Women rape/assault one another as well. How are we to stop that?

That’s a black-or-white argument.
We should not put people in situations where they are extremely likely to get raped (e.g. give a homosexual rapist a cellmate or put trans women in mens’ prisons)
Just because we can’t prevent all prison rape doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t try to reduce it as much as possible.

It’s impossible to stop all gun violence. Should we hand every American a free assault rifle and a rocket launcher, or do what we can to minimize it?

I vote, because what other power do we have.

Revolution has never occurred at the ballot box.
Imagine if Malcolm X and MLK Jr. and Rosa Parks and other black leaders had shared your attitude.
What would be the current state of civil rights in America?

 

[MsDiz]

I don’t think that people are entitled to know every aspect of someone’s past for a one-night stand or a casual sexual relationship. For a long-term relationship, the answer is probably different.

I think when it comes to something as intimate as sex, omitting something that could change that persons decision on whether to have sex or not is a pretty serious deception.

The best of it is it’s because of the lie, you might have met with someone who’s perfectly happy to have sex with a trans person but omitting it takes away their choice. Lying is never good especially when it comes to sex.

 

[arrall]

I think when it comes to something as intimate as sex, omitting something that could change that persons decision on whether to have sex or not is a pretty serious deception.

The best of it is it’s because of the lie, you might have met with someone who’s perfectly happy to have sex with a trans person but omitting it takes away their choice. Lying is never good especially when it comes to sex.

Regardless of whether or not all trans people should or should not be upfront - why is there so much of a focus on this, and what functional difference is there for a one night stand?

 

[MsDiz]

Regardless of whether or not all trans people should or should not be upfront - why is there so much of a focus on this, and what functional difference is there for a one night stand?

Why is there a focus on this right now is the fact it probably boils down to a lot of propaganda. LGBTQIA+ community is an easy target and the powers that be are very much using that to divide and conquer as it were.

And look there is absolutely an issue with not disclosing something to someone that would change their mind even if it’s a one night stand. You’re taking away their choice and it could be considered rape, to put it bluntly.

 

[Ratel]

Why is there a focus on this right now is the fact it probably boils down to a lot of propaganda. LGBTQIA+ community is an easy target and the powers that be are very much using that to divide and conquer as it were.

And look there is absolutely an issue with not disclosing something to someone that would change their mind even if it’s a one night stand. You’re taking away their choice and it could be considered rape, to put it bluntly.

Rape? What you smoke girl? Since when questioning about transition is a rape? Have you ever been raped? This is bullshits, you insult every rape victims!

 

[Cream Gravy?]

@Cream Gravy? Hyperbolic? There's a reason why men and women are seperated in prisons. Trans women on HRT after a long enough time are often weaker than even cis women. And those men are CLEARLY going to go after a trans woman. Not hyperbolic at all, it's very real.

Okay. And there are women who transition to male (take testosterone) should we toss them in with the men? So as to be fair to all women?

I really didn't mean to derail this topic so much.

 

[MsDiz]

Rape? What you smoke girl? Since when questioning about transition is a rape? Have you ever been raped? This is bullshits, you insults every rape victims!

Deceiving someone by not telling them something that would mean they would not want to have sex with you is absolutely rape.

I do not need to tell you my life experience for my point to be valid.

 

[Ratel]

Deceiving someone by not telling them something that would mean they would not want to have sex with you is absolutely rape.

I do not need to tell you my life experience for my point to be valid.

My bad, i misunderstood what he said, still different though, this is more manipulation than rape, afterall if the woman or the man is consentent behind a lie, this is ethically problematic, but that ain't rape, that ain't forcing someone to have sex. I still find you exagerate

 

[arrall]

And look there is absolutely an issue with not disclosing something to someone that would change their mind even if it’s a one night stand. You’re taking away their choice and it could be considered rape, to put it bluntly

How would someone know that it would change their mind?
What amount of history is needed to disclose to someone when having a one-night stand? What else is rape if not disclosed?
I’ve fucked people without even knowing their first name. Should I have instead asked for their life’s stories?

As an actual rape victim, I am very hesitant to lump in “not telling someone that you used to have a vagina or penis” with violently forcing someone to have sex with you.

Okay. And there are women who transition to male (take testosterone) should we toss them in with the men? So as to be fair to all women?

I really didn't mean to derail this topic so much.

If they’d like to be, yeah.

 

[MsDiz]

As an actual rape victim, I am very hesitant to lump in “not telling someone that you used to have a vagina or penis” with violently forcing someone to have sex with you.

So all rapes need to be violent to be considered rape? You’re in very tetchy territory and you may want to rethink your comment.

 

[arrall]

So all rapes need to be violent to be considered rape? You’re in very tetchy territory and you may want to rethink your comment.

That’s a strawman of what I was saying.
I don’t think that not disclosing your life’s history to someone makes sex non-consensual.

I’ve experienced rape without physical violence. I’ve experienced sexual assault with physical violence. I am unfortunately very well aware that rape needs to involve violence.

 

[Ratel]

So all rapes need to be violent to be considered rape? You’re in very tetchy territory and you may want to rethink your comment.

In that case: what is a sane sexual rapport? When it's all about love? What about prostitutes that are forced to fuck with disgusting guys to survive, is it rape?

 

[phantom_alyce]

@Cream Gravy? Trans men are men, more than likely running on testosterone. Which means they don't belong in the womens prison.

Yea, this is getting off topic a bit, I'm guilty of it as well.

 

[arrall]

In that case: what is a sane sexual rapport? When it's all about love? What about prostitutes that are forced to fuck with disgusting guys to survive, is it rape?

I’m not sure if I am understanding your argument here….

 

[Cream Gravy?]

Revolution has never occurred at the ballot box.

Perhaps I don't believe in revolution given the current state of affairs. Nor do I feel that it would accomplish positive change. Things are gonna have to degenerate a heck of a lot further for me to support overthrowing the government.

why is there so much of a focus on this, and what functional difference is there for a one night stand?

And perhaps others just feel far less positively about casual sex. There is inherent risk of all sorts having sex with relative strangers. Sex in general has loads of risk even if you know the person.

I’ve fucked people without even knowing their first name.

That's pretty risky, wouldn't you agree?

 

[MsDiz]

.

That’s a strawman of what I was saying.
I don’t think that not disclosing your life’s history to someone makes sex non-consensual.

You don’t need to disclose your life history, you just need to disclose the things that let the person have agency over their body.

Anyway, I’ve gone way off topic so I apologise and also I’m keen to go out for a wee surf! I think discourse is healthy and it’s good to see.

 

[Ratel]

I’m not sure if I am understanding your argument here….

I mean that MsDiz seems to think that every sexual rapport which isn't respectfull and about love is a rape.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

Trans men are men, more than likely running on testosterone. Which means they don't belong in the womens prison.

Indeed. But what if they don't wana go? What if they like being around women because they're straight, so to speak? So toss them in with men where arguably gay men now rape them?

This is a deep rabbit hole that I don't entirely expect to get straight or rational conclusions from folks regarding... my bad.