Sexual Preferences vs "Transphobia"

[Cream Gravy?]

And is it really so inaccurate to posit that said stimuli is the constant transphobia pushed by patriarchal, insecure culture that would rather we hate transgender people and ethnic minorities than focus that anger on the billionaires and politicians and the Epstein class?

It's not a giant stretch but I think you focus too much on the news of the world (mam?). I think for most people sex hasn't got anything to do with the news and media. I do believe that your sexual identity has taken on a greater importance to you than the average person's.

 

[arrall]

It's not a giant stretch but I think you focus too much on the news of the world (mam?). I think for most people sex hasn't got anything to do with the news and media. I do believe that your sexual identity has taken on a greater importance to you than the average person's.

I mean yes, as a lesbian in a world of homophobia I don’t really have a choice.
Gender-wise, as a trans person I don’t really have a choice.
Same thing with being a member of an ethnic minority group, being disabled, being a substance user…
Even when I identified as a cisgender and heterosexual person, these things were always extremely important to me - dating back to at least maybe age 12?

With how politicized our existence is as drug users, I am surprised to see how many people on here DON’T concern themselves with the state of the world. Many even choose to other most substance users, see themselves as “one of the good ones”, and then go bash the very people who are just like them.

 

[MsDiz]

Honestly, isn’t it a good litmus test for a partner to know if they are worth your time. If they choose not to pursue anything further you’ve saved yourself a lot of heartache, especially if once transitioned you are indistinguishable to a AFAB or AMAB.

I personally have no issue what genitals a person has, I am incredibly attracted to intelligence and someone who I click with.

I do not think it’s transphobic to say you’d not be interested in a relationship with someone who is trans. It’s a very personal preference. Absolutely there are those who are transphobic and who will use the auld but you were female/male at birth but I know a lot of people who are very respectful of the trans community but it’s just not something they are into.

You have to realise also that media and propaganda has caused internalised transphobia. Most people do no introspection to correct those feelings.

 

[arrall]

I do not think it’s transphobic to say you’d not be interested in a relationship with someone who is trans. It’s a very personal preference. Absolutely there are those who are transphobic and who will use the auld but you were female/male at birth but I know a lot of people who are very respectful of the trans community but it’s just not something they are into.

You have to realise also that media and propaganda has caused internalised transphobia. Most people do no introspection to correct those feelings.

It feels like there is a discordance between these two points.
I think that your post is very thoughtful and I do appreciate it.
But I also question why you simultaneously admit that these issues are caused by internalised transphobia and do not believe that people with this preference have a transphobic preference.

I think that people can be respectful to trans people in general and also make choices in life that are incredibly transphobic.

One relative of mine purported to support me and was very kind when I came out to her, but then was also bizarre in her beliefs about things like which bathroom she thinks I should be using solely because of what I was born with between my legs (I would not be safe in a men’s bathroom based on how I look, and many men would probably be confused as to why I was there)

One can be generally respectful of trans people and then also choose to make individually transphobic choices or hold specific transphobic beliefs based on internalized transphobia. I do not believe that these things are mutually exclusive - they often co-exist.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

Really I think you exaggerate the extent of people's influence on private sex life (and sex should be private, lets be frank here). We live in an unprecedented time of positive change for queer folks. Gay marriage has been legal in all 50 states for many years, and looks to be in line to stay legal. I live in the sticks and I know quite a few transgender and gay folks, and while the conservative religious types murmur and grumble about it, no one is actually harming anyone. And their kids care less about it. And their kids will care less. And over time the world changes. But you can't teach an old dog new tricks.

There's no need to be... I hesitate to use the word but, militant, about sex. I think you're buying into a false media narrative about bigotry that isn't nearly as much of an issue as you think.

With how politicized our existence is as drug users, I am surprised to see how many people on here DON’T concern themselves with the state of the world.

People are concerned sure. But living your life glued to worries beyond your control is a bit much wouldn't you say? I find the less I focus on world affairs, the simpler and happier my life. The happiest folks I know don't care what's going on in Korea or the Mid East or even in their neighbor's house.

 

[MsDiz]

It feels like there is a discordance between these two points.
I think that your post is very thoughtful and I do appreciate it.
But I also question why you simultaneously admit that these issues are caused by internalised transphobia and do not believe that people with this preference have a transphobic preference.

I think that people can be respectful to trans people in general and also make choices in life that are incredibly transphobic.

One relative of mine purported to support me and was very kind when I came out to her, but then was also bizarre in her beliefs about things like which bathroom she thinks I should be using solely because of what I was born with between my legs (I would not be safe in a men’s bathroom based on how I look, and many men would probably be confused as to why I was there)

One can be generally respectful of trans people and then also choose to make individually transphobic choices or hold specific transphobic beliefs based on internalized transphobia. I do not believe that these things are mutually exclusive - they often co-exist.

Well I didn’t say everyone who has a preference has internalised transphobia but there is definitely a large population who do have it.

Ok so let me ask you this, do you think it would be deceptive to not tell a partner you were AMAB?

 

[arrall]

I will say that - as someone who has never had and never plans to have any sexual interactions with a man - I am attempting to come at this from a somewhat detached perspective.

I only sleep with queer/lesbian/bi/pan/etc. women or non-binary people, and generally they have vastly different views on this to cisgender heterosexual men.
The lesbian community where I live is extremely trans-inclusionary.
Some women even prefer sleeping with trans women, to the point that I will avoid them because of how uncomfortable it makes me and how invalidating I find it.

I also don’t fault anyone with a genital preference - I honestly have one myself. I’ve had about 40-50 sexual partners in my life, and all but one of them (who was a trans woman) had a vagina. I am in no position to shame anyone who doesn’t want to sleep with someone who currently has a vagina or a penis. I have my own reasons for preferring people with vaginas, though I am not completely closed off to sleeping with women who have penises - it just isn’t my preference.

But I just can’t wrap my head around caring beyond that, even as someone who is not attracted to all genders.

Well I didn’t say everyone who has a preference has internalised transphobia but there is definitely a large population who do have it.

Ok so let me ask you this, do you think it would be deceptive to not tell a partner you were AMAB?

I do not have bottom surgery and do not plan on getting it, and I am very upfront with partners about which genitals I have prior to sex.

I don’t know what my opinion would be if I had a sex change surgery, had been on hormones for several years, and was indistinguishable from a cis woman in terms of appearance. I probably wouldn’t consider it necessary to mention, no.

 

[arrall]

Really I think you exaggerate the extent of people's influence on private sex life (and sex should be private, lets be frank here). We live in an unprecedented time of positive change for queer folks. Gay marriage has been legal in all 50 states for many years, and looks to be in line to stay legal. I live in the sticks and I know quite a few transgender and gay folks, and while the conservative religious types murmur and grumble about it, no one is actually harming anyone. And their kids care less about it. And their kids will care less. And over time the world changes. But you can't teach an old dog new tricks.

There's no need to be... I hesitate to use the word but, militant, about sex. I think you're buying into a false media narrative about bigotry that isn't nearly as much of an issue as you think.

There is a big difference between what is going on for gay people and trans people right now.

Individual homophobia has risen, but I am not aware of cases of systematic homophobia rising in most countries.

The same cannot be said about trans people - hundreds of bills are proposed in US legislatures alone every single year targeting our ability to use the bathroom, deciding which gender of prison we should be locked in, if we can access healthcare, if we can change our gender on our IDs, etc.

Politicians pour millions into airing ads on television attacking us, to the point that many children are now first hearing about transgender people as a concept from Republican attack ads.

If your identity as a cisgender man or a Catholic or whatever was under attack to that degree, I think you would (rightfully) be angry and fearful too.

People are concerned sure. But living your life glued to worries beyond your control is a bit much wouldn't you say? I find the less I focus on world affairs, the simpler and happier my life. The happiest folks I know don't care what's going on in Korea or the Mid East or even in their neighbor's house.

It is easy to ignore the atrocities of the world, but it is not something that I believe is moral or ethical.

People have said this throughout history and allowed atrocities like the Nazi Holocaust, the “wars” in Iraq and Vietnam, what the UK did to the Irish, and countless other genocides around the world that slaughtered millions of civilians to occur.
Today, we say this regarding the genocides in Gaza, Sudan, and the DRC.

I think that we as humans (particularly those in privileged countries such as the USA, UK, Canada, Australia, most of Europe, etc.) have the duty to stand up and speak out against injustice.
I choose to focus on the atrocities in Gaza because I am Jewish, and such actions are going on in my name.

 

[MsDiz]

I will say that - as someone who has never had and never plans to have any sexual interactions with a man - I am attempting to come at this from a somewhat detached perspective.

I only sleep with queer/lesbian/bi/pan/etc. women or non-binary people, and generally they have vastly different views on this to cisgender heterosexual men.
The lesbian community where I live is extremely trans-inclusionary.
Some women even prefer sleeping with trans women, to the point that I will avoid them because of how uncomfortable it makes me and how invalidating I find it.

I also don’t fault anyone with a genital preference - I honestly have one myself. I’ve had about 40-50 sexual partners in my life, and all but one of them (who was a trans woman) had a vagina. I am in no position to shame anyone who doesn’t want to sleep with someone who currently has a vagina or a penis. I have my own reasons for preferring people with vaginas, though I am not completely closed off to sleeping with women who have penises - it just isn’t my preference.

But I just can’t wrap my head around caring beyond that, even as someone who is not attracted to all genders.


I do not have bottom surgery and do not plan on getting it, and I am very upfront with partners about which genitals I have prior to sex.

I don’t know what my opinion would be if I had a sex change surgery, had been on hormones for several years, and was indistinguishable from a cis woman in terms of appearance. I probably wouldn’t consider it necessary to mention, no.

Just because you can’t wrap your head around someone caring doesn’t mean their feelings aren’t valid or that they are transphobic for feeling that way.

I do think it would be incredibly deceptive to hold back a large part of your identity if you were to have surgery and pass as a female now.

For example, I told all my exs that I would never be able to have children pretty early on in my relationships (I was told this by many many Drs and my son was truly a very unique anomaly). I did it because a lot of people do want a family and they want a biological child and I wanted them to have that choice to continue a relationship with me and do it knowing the truth.

It’s an incredibly nuanced topic but I honestly don’t feel that everyone who choose not to date trans people are inherently transphobic.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

deciding which gender of prison we should be locked in

I don't know if you're aware but the prison system is firmly rooted in the 20th century and that ain't changin' anytime soon. Why worry about someplace only bad folks belong anyhow? Besides non-violent drug offenders which make up far less of the population than you'd think, most people in prison deserve to be doing their time. And prison is well, binary.

It is easy to ignore the atrocities of the world, but it is not something that I believe is moral or ethical.

I ain't talkin about ignorance, I'm talking about staying in your lane. I keep up with world affairs but truly, what can I do about what happens 1000 miles away from me in another country or state? Why bother when there are enough battles to be fought at home?

If your identity as a cisgender man or a Catholic or whatever was under attack to that degree, I think you would (rightfully) be angry and fearful too.

I agree, I understand where you're coming from. When religious folks I'm friends with at work go on about their wacky feelings regarding other folk's sex life I like to ask them how they'd feel if society said being Baptist, etc. was now shunned or worse, illegal. They don't seem to think such a thing could happen so they shrug it off, but the point is people live in their own worlds now.

I've felt for a long time that the worst thing to happen to society was to give the computer illiterates access to smart phones. I see boomers and gen x spending similar amounts of time on screens to gen z which is mind boggling and explains this 'moment' that you and other lgbt folks are going through. Suddenly voices that were contained to the home are now out and proud, so to speak lol

 

[arrall]

Just because you can’t wrap your head around someone caring doesn’t mean their feelings aren’t valid or that they are transphobic for feeling that way.

I do think it would be incredibly deceptive to hold back a large part of your identity if you were to have surgery and pass as a female now.

For example, I told all my exs that I would never be able to have children pretty early on in my relationships (I was told this by many many Drs and my son was truly a very unique anomaly). I did it because a lot of people do want a family and they want a biological child and I wanted them to have that choice to continue a relationship with me and do it knowing the truth.

It’s an incredibly nuanced topic but I honestly don’t feel that everyone who choose not to date trans people are inherently transphobic.

I mean, reproduction is also a fair preference if the sexual preference is for long-term relationships rather than one-night-standa.
But if I said “I’m not able to have kids” without elaborating, would that really be different?
Or if I just didn’t mention it when dating other women?

 

[arrall]

I don't know if you're aware but the prison system is firmly rooted in the 20th century and that ain't changin' anytime soon. Why worry about someplace only bad folks belong anyhow? Besides non-violent drug offenders which make up far less of the population than you'd think, most people in prison deserve to be doing their time. And prison is well, binary.

42.5% of federal inmates in the USA are doing time for drug offences.
16-20% in state prisons.
On a drug website, that is absolutely a concern.

And prisons being binary is one thing.
Locking trans women up in men’s prisons and putting them in situations where they are likely to be raped or murdered is completely unacceptable.

truly, what can I do about what happens 1000 miles away from me in another country or state? Why bother when there are enough battles to be fought at home?

People said the same thing about the Holocaust as American companies illegally funneled money to Nazi Germany and sold Nazi war bonds. Imagine if people had taken to the streets, engaged in direct action, boycotted German products and companies, and attempted to stop them.

That is precisely what people are doing right now with things like the genocide in Gaza.

The elites want you to believe that your voice and actions are far more powerless than they really are.

 

[MsDiz]

I mean, reproduction is also a fair preference if the sexual preference is for long-term relationships rather than one-night-standa.
But if I said “I’m not able to have kids” without elaborating, would that really be different?
Or if I just didn’t mention it when dating other women?

I think holding back a huge part of your life would be disingenuous, I also think that holding it back would mean you think very little of your partner, especially if you think it would make them reconsider. You’re taking away their agency and I don’t believe that is right.

 

[arrall]

I think holding back a huge part of your life would be disingenuous, I also think that holding it back would mean you think very little of your partner, especially if you think it would make them reconsider. You’re taking away their agency and I don’t believe that is right.

This is a hypothetical for me, since I am very upfront about it and do not plan on sexual reassignment surgery/bottom surgery.

I can’t really speak to how I would act in the case of this hypothetical, but I don’t think I would blame people for fearing being upfront with how prevalent societal transphobia is right now.

With that said:
If the genitals are the same, what functional difference is there for a one night stand?

 

[phantom_alyce]

Due to my reproductive organs being screwey, I can't get preggers. And this has worked to my advantage (plus, at the age of 41, I still haven't decided if I want kids or not, via adoption after my medical revelation, my indecisiveness will be the death of me I swear). Telling potential partners this in modern times, I had one instantly assume I was trans and went off his hinges. Saved me from wasting time with someone whome I wouldn't have wanted to even touch with a 10 foot pole, he laid his cards out early. He couldn't simply say "no" though, he had to go transphobic, this bigotry is what gets under my skin. My cis, straight mother who birthed me, was called a man by someone on Facebook because she has arm strength and short hair (she was drummer in her younger years). My blood was boiling...

I feel like I'm posting way too off-topic now.

@Cream Gravy? A woman in prison is already serving her time, you believe she should be r@ped and beaten as well by men? And mind you, in the US, trans women can be arrested for literally following the law. Look to Kansas. An innocent woman in a womans prison is already wrong on every level possible, but to throw her in with men who are so horny they're going at each other? That's a death sentence.

 

[MsDiz]

This is a hypothetical for me, since I am very upfront about it and do not plan on sexual reassignment surgery/bottom surgery.

I can’t really speak to how I would act in the case of this hypothetical, but I don’t think I would blame people for fearing being upfront with how prevalent societal transphobia is right now.

With that said:
If the genitals are the same, what functional difference is there for a one night stand?

It’s still a lie that’s why, you’re still taking away a persons agency. Regardless if you’re passing or not. It is a lie.

 

[arrall]

It’s still a lie that’s why, you’re still taking away a persons agency. Regardless if you’re passing or not. It is a lie.

People omit plenty with potential partners. We don’t debate endlessly about whether or not people should refuse to date someone who is a reformed ex-convict or a former member of a religious cult.
To me, systematic and societal transphobia are responsible for the focus here.

About 8% of American adults have had felony convictions. 3-5% of American adults have done time in prison. Both of those are much larger than the percentage of Americans who are transgender.

The reason that those things are not a common debate is transphobia. Maybe it would be fair to not want to date an ex-convict. I personally wouldn’t hold that preference, but maybe some people do.

I don’t think that people are entitled to know every aspect of someone’s past for a one-night stand or a casual sexual relationship. For a long-term relationship, the answer is probably different.

 

[arrall]

With that said, to return to the original discussion:

I still have not seen an answer on why someone would not want to have casual sex with a trans person who had had a sex change for reasons that are not transphobic.

 

[Ratel]

I'm bi, i used to have a lot of sex with men about my 21 years old for a short period of time; i don't have that much of experience with women though, anyway, then i had schizophrenic crisis, i've been hospitalized several times and now, i could have sex with a man, but i couldn't do sodomy, the simple fact of thinking of takinf a dick up on my ass makes me semi-hurted

 

[Cream Gravy?]

Locking trans women up in men’s prisons and putting them in situations where they are likely to be raped or murdered is completely unacceptable.

Technically, that falls under a 20+ year old law though (PREA). But change comes slowly to the penitentiary. People have to be allowed into population if they are not violent right? Because we're social creatures. Because of that it's 100% impossible to stop every rape/assault. But it's a lofty goal, to be sure.

No one should go to prison for drug crimes though. I wouldn't go lol. Come and get me coppers.

A woman in prison is already serving her time, you believe she should be r@ped and beaten as well by men? And mind you, in the US, trans women can be arrested for literally following the law. Look to Kansas. An innocent woman in a womans prison is already wrong on every level possible, but to throw her in with men who are so horny they're going at each other? That's a death sentence.

No... don't be so hyperbolic.

Men get raped too. What should we do, throw every single person into segregated housing so no one can ever touch anyone?

Women rape/assault one another as well. How are we to stop that?

People said the same thing about the Holocaust as American companies illegally funneled money to Nazi Germany and sold Nazi war bonds. Imagine if people had taken to the streets, engaged in direct action, boycotted German products and companies, and attempted to stop them.

That is precisely what people are doing right now with things like the genocide in Gaza.

The elites want you to believe that your voice and actions are far more powerless than they really are.

And... Nazis. It always happens at some point lol.

I advocate for change arrall, just like you. I vote, because what other power do we have. But at the end of the day you gotta focus on yourself or else you're just pouring your energy into something that won't give back to you. I suppose I just believe in a bit of rugged individualism. Fuck the rest of the world, you know?