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My last Day 1 (Recovery Journal)

MrClean -

yes! Thanks for answering. For some reason (PAWS!?!) it was giving me a lot of anxiety. For me, it feels like I get vertigo or dizzy kinda. They pass quickly, but happen often. Especially on my hike. I was going up hills and down and my heart was working harder than it has in ten years.

It makes me feel better that it happens to others. For me, I didn't get this the first two times I quit. Just the last few days and it's adding to my anxiety - big time. I like predictability, anything out of the ordinary concerns me...

thanks again for for lightening the load. Im going on my evening walk soon.

I'm done with day 12 and heading into my day 13...I still feel like I'm struggling pretty heavily. Last night I took a TON (for me) of benzos to sleep. I took 2 of my .5 ativans and an entire 1 mg Xanax too. I was getting ready to down an ambien in my delirium and stopped myself. I didn't want to end up naked under a pool deck on top of sleeping 3 hours in the last 3 days. My massive dose of benzos only got me about 4 hours sleep...eventually.

Here is hoping for a better night tonight.

- VE
 
P0kemama said:
VE: Years ago I was on anti-depressants, even before there was anything on the internet, I was getting "electric shocks" in my brain when I quit. For me, that is the best way to describe the kind of vibrational electric zing type of feeling that I call a brain zap. I think I was on Paxil, and it took some time for them to resolve. However, they did decrease in frequency over time and were never painful - just annoying. I remember asking my doctor about the feeling and he looked at me like I was crazy. Now, there are many people who have discontinued anti depressants who report them. However, I did not experience them when I quit opiates in 2012 and not at all while I stayed clean the following year+.
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Thanks Poke, it's the same type of brain zaps you got. I'm actually on an SSRI right now. One of the many reasons I wanted to quit the oxy was to get off these ADs. The only reason I take them (according to Dr. VE. - not an actual medical professional) is because of the opiates. Actually, it's probably the catalyst for my quitting. It certainly remains to be one of the most life-altering things that has ever happened to me.

Ive been on them about two years. I started having the brain zaps out of no where and debilitating anxiety as well. I've always been anxious, but this was debilitating. My heart started racing - got up to 180 beats per minute one time (my whole body moved with each heartbeat). It was scary. My BP was really high for me and my resting heart rate was over 100 all the time. For months!

My doctor was doing all kinds of tests - EKGs, thyroid, had to carry around a heart monitor on me for 10 days one time...it went on and on. For six months. Worst six months of my life. My doctor told me to try the SSRI and I resisted - strongly. I must have told him 20 times - "but I'm not depressed, I'm not sad, I have nothing to be sad about!"

Finally, when all the tests were done and nothing was "wrong" - he sat me down and went over what "depression" is. He said it's not being sad, it's a chemical imbalance that causes physical symptoms. He sent me out the door with a script and made me promise that I would try it for 30 days. Within 5 days my BP and heart rate were back to normal and I was feeling better...I was shocked. After all my suffering and resisting it was DEPRESSION?!? But I wasn't sad...I've had an easy life, so far as they go, and have always been really solid emotionally/mentally.

That is what began my journey that is ending here - I started reading and reading about SSRIs and eventually got around to how opiates screw with the brain...and here I am. I'm convinced that, without the opiates, I don't need the SSRI - with opiates I do need them. I have no idea if anyone else feels the same way about only needing SSRIs cause of the opiates, but delusional or not, I'm convinced.

- VE

Edit to clarify my earlier statement about getting on SSRIs being life-altering for me. Before I had this issue, I had zero empathy/understanding of others struggles with depression and mental health. In fact, I'm ashamed to admit that I used to be one of those people who would roll their eyes and think "depression, come on, just get out of bed!" It changed my outlook on suffering, drastically.
 
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How very interesting, VE. Maybe your experience helps make sense of my most recent anti-depressant experience As you have read, I started with a new PM doctor a couple of weeks ago, who told me to quit my nightly ativan, due to all the issues with the combo of those and opiates causing overdose related deaths ( not really listening that I only take at the most 1 mg of ativan a night)... and prescribed me nortriptyline. He did not diagnose me with depression - he stated it was for my sleep issues.
Well, I "obeyed" him. The first night, I took my nor, fine. Second night, I woke up very drowsy, and slightly disoriented Third and fourth nights, I had the symptoms I have been complaining about: so much dizziness, lethargy upset stomach. I stopped taking them. However, I also was reducing my oxymorph dosage and discontinued my oxycodone. I can't 100% attribute my unwellness to the anti-d and I sure as hell am not going to start them up just to see if they are definitely the culprit.

The experience, as a whole, did remind me of the issues I had when I discontinued the Paxil, and I had some flashbacks of what a bitch it was to get off of that drug, and I came to the conclusion that I had to do this without anti-D. I don't think there is enough research being paid attention to, in my case, to warrant an experimentation.

I can fully understand that you believe the opiates are causing the symptoms being labeled as depression. They are CNS depressants, for starters. Your reasoning makes sense. You have certainly suffered enough in your life, and I hope for you that it ends soon.
 
^ Good call, Poke! I think that quitting those ADs is the best option, unless you absolutely NEED them. I've never heard of stuff your doctor prescribed, but I looked it up and it sounds like it causes all of the typical wd symptoms as other ADs. How bad were your symptoms when you went through it last time? Did you taper of just quit?

If you can get your Ativan down to .25 mgs then I don't see what the issue is. Of course, benzos+opiates=bad news, I get it, but you are on such small amounts of both but mostly the benzo! I wish doctors could just explain the risks and let you make your own decision - autonomy of the patient and all.

The experience I had was rough - but I don't think I would take it back. It has taught me so much about myself and my connection with other humans. I was pretty old when it happened - over 30, and I still thought I was "better than" most people. Pride has always been an issue for me - but that shit brought me to a place I didn't know was possible, it absolutely broke me. It was humbling, and looking back, I needed to be humbled (of course I didn't know that at the time, I thought I was awesome!).

- VE
 
Hopefully got some sleep VE. Don't worry about the brain zaps. For some reason this is the first time I've had them as well. And yes, they are more annoying than anything. I'm seriously guessing though it's because of the hiking and exercise as this is the first time I've tried that while detoxing. Those brain zaps are scary but short lived and they kinda came in a swarm and left just as quickly.

So when I was around 20 and physically fit, I was diagnosed with (I'm going to butcher the spelling of this) veazo vegal something ( vasovagal syncope... I tried :P ) and bradycardia ( got that one). Vaso is pretty much like those fainting goats... you get excited or suprised and just fucking pass out... its awesome. At the time, I wasn't using super heavy but maybe OC every other day or so as that's what was available. But, it was probably for almost a year.

After my knee decided to peace out and rip itself apart, I told one of my knee docs about that spell of weird heart issues a few years back. First thing he asked was if I was on opiates at the time. Of course I lied and said no. But then I got curious and asked my uncle who is an anesthesiologist if prolonged on and off use could cause it. He said most definitely as pretty much what I was doing was confusing the shit out of my heart. ( he used much more technically correct terms)

Moral of the drawn out story is that, to my knowledge, opiates can play some fun games with your heart and not in a unrequited love type way... well kinda it can but for the sake of the euphemism and the potential backstreet boys reference... no :P

Hopefully you got some sleep!

~MNSC~
 
OK, I'm pretty much done. I proved I can get off oxy but why? I'm feeling too much pain.
 
Hey PG: Is that a rhetorical question, or are you really asking for feedback???? I just know that you posted that the drugs weren't working as well, I guess cuz of increased tolerance, and that all the money you were paying just wasn't worth it - and you were sick of running out and being caught short the end of the month. Wow! Those are my reasons exactly for taper, lol... so I don't know if I am projecting my own stuff onto you, or those are the reasons you had for quitting. Maybe read your posts that were written right before you quit to see if those reasons are still valid.

I cannot understand going through all that hell just to use... if I didn't get RLS and could be through with it I would seriously stop tormenting myself with the taper and jump off.
So, remembering that the RLS that was horrible for you is now past, are you still wanting to go back? I do know that you have chronic health conditions that really cause you a lot of pain... I am not judging you if you go back on your pills. I just know that I can convince myself to do something that I may regret later if I get no feedback. I consider you almost a friend here on BL... so I just want to honestly offer some feedback and tell you that no matter what you decide, I do support your decision.
 
aplumgirl said:
OK, I'm pretty much done. I proved I can get off oxy but why? I'm feeling too much pain.
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Plum, no. You didn't do this to prove you could get off oxy. Of course you can get off oxy! That's the easy part - the hard part is staying off. Poke is absolutely correct about going back and looking at your posts. You need to remember why you did this. I know you are in pain - I am too, so is Poke, so is Shroomy, and Squeaky. There is a lot of pain in this world, and numbing yourself to it doesn't help - you have tried that and failed.

I promise you that you will be happier if you make the harder choice. I know it's easy to cave - hell, I've done it twice in 12 months. You know the right choice for you, and none of us will judge you if you decide to go back to the oxy. Just make sure it is YOU who wants to go back to it and not the drug talking. It can be so tricky to tell the difference for me. The only way I can is by rationally deciding BEFORE I quit that this is my decision and I will stick to it. So then I know when I hear anything contrary to that in my head that it is my addiction talking - not me. Because *I* want off the oxy, but my addiction/brain/body sure doesn't.

I'm so sorry you are suffering. But please don't give up your time unless it's truly the right thing to do for you.

Either way, please keep us posted!

- VE
 
I feel horrible!! I'm in such pain! I do have spinal stenosis. Pretty severe actually in my neck. I was really hoping I could handle the pain, it's supposed to subside lol! Well, it really hasn't.

My husband called me a pushy for not wanting to hold off. I struggled through all this stuff some people can't handle to be called a fucking pyssy?!!!!!

I can't handle all of it, I'm pretty suicidal right now.
 
Plum you aren't a pussy. You are so strong. People who haven't been through it just don't get it. Try not to let that get to you.

I have no doubt that you are in pain, and your husband shouldn't have any either - which makes what you are doing even more amazing.

Keep on keeping on, plum. Things will turn around. They have to.

We we are all here for you when you need us!

- VE
 
Well VE, I appreciate it but I feel very demoralized!!

Now my neck, shoulder and heart hurt. What's gonna stop it? I'm not sure it will ever stop.

Life shouldn't be this way!
 
aplumgirl said:
Life shouldn't be this way!
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I agree!!!! It's bullshit. I feel demoralized too, Plum. I'm on day 14 and I'm STILL struggling. The last two times I did this I felt better by this time and it's wearing me out. I've had a headache for, literally, 4 days straight. It's not a migraine or anything, but it's reaaaaallllly annoying my and getting me down. so I know how you feel.

plum, why did you decide to quit the oxy? I did it for soooooo many reasons, but essentially it's because I was just surviving on them. Not living, just surviving day-to-day and refill-to-refill. I had to change something, or I was going to lose everything.

- VE
 
VastEmpty said:
I agree!!!! It's bullshit. I feel demoralized too, Plum. I'm on day 14 and I'm STILL struggling. The last two times I did this I felt better by this time and it's wearing me out. I've had a headache for, literally, 4 days straight. It's not a migraine or anything, but it's reaaaaallllly annoying my and getting me down. so I know how you feel.

plum, why did you decide to quit the oxy? I did it for soooooo many reasons, but essentially it's because I was just surviving on them. Not living, just surviving day-to-day and refill-to-refill. I had to change something, or I was going to lose everything.

- VE
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Well various reasons but mainly my 10mg oxy 3xs a day just made me feel "slightly" better. I really thought the pain wouldn't be much worse off them. And you know the BS associated with PM.

I was hoping Marijuana would do just as well, but no. Especially with sleep and pain at night.

I just wanted really to know "what" my "real" off med pain was like and could I manage it w/o oxy. I guess not. I really need surgery.

My husband is supportive but not empathetic if you know what I mean. It's all fucking hard!
 
Plum: Have you researched rebound pain from opiates and how long it lasts with your particular diagnoses? Maybe the pain is "left over" rebound pain from all the opiates you have taken.
I am thinking it will settle down more and more as your natural endorphins start to kick in.

And you are so right: the oxy's only made things slightly better, if at all, for you. Tolerance builds so quickly that most of us in pain management are managing to stay out of withdrawal, not our pain, as we would need increases every so often to account for tolerance. AND THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN WITH THE CURRENT CLIMATE AROUND OPIATES.

So, play the tape all the way through... you will get your pills, feel better for a couple of days, at the most, a week, and then you will be right back where you were right before you quit. Pain relief will be minimal, and you will be even more frustrated and pissed off with your doctor and his lack of empathy and the amount of money you are spending.

Your statement about your husband reminded me of this past Friday's episode of "Last Man Standing" in that some men love their wives very much, but don't have the experience or knowledge on how to be present as their wives express feelings and thoughts, especially negative ones. They get uncomfortable.... so I do know what you mean.

Usually, though, when we are suffering emotionally, just the presence of a human being that does love us, provides some measure of comfort.

I know this is hard... I did it in 2012. It was the hardest thing I ever went through.... having babies by natural childbirth methods was easy compared to going through cold turkey withdrawal.
I think you have been through the worst though... really.... already. And, you have my support, and Vast's, as well.... maybe next time you go through withdrawal there will be no friendly souls that are on the same wavelength as you, and you feel more isolated.

Thank you for sharing your thread, VE!! I hope your headache resolves very soon! Maybe slow down a bit on the hiking???? But I do understand you want those endorphins to kick in and exercise is the number one natural way to do that, from what I have read.

YOU TWO ARE DOING GREAT!!!!
 
Plum

How long have you been off OC ? could it just be the old paws back, neck, everything hurts pain on top of your existing condition?

Rebound pain is real and makes you acutely aware of pre existing issues. (On top of my knee exploding itself years ago I even felt pain from an appendectomy I had a little over a year ago and that's just coming off suboxone)

I found it nearly impossible for my circle of people to be empathetic to my situation... that's why I think I came here as most everyone in SL has an idea of what we are going through and is able to empathize with what we are going through. Everyone is here to help ya through the shittiness my friend.

Stay strong Plum!!!
 
MisterNotSoClean said:
Plum

How long have you been off OC ? could it just be the old paws back, neck, everything hurts pain on top of your existing condition?

Rebound pain is real and makes you acutely aware of pre existing issues. (On top of my knee exploding itself years ago I even felt pain from an appendectomy I had a little over a year ago and that's just coming off suboxone)

I found it nearly impossible for my circle of people to be empathetic to my situation... that's why I think I came here as most everyone in SL has an idea of what we are going through and is able to empathize with what we are going through. Everyone is here to help ya through the shittiness my friend.

Stay strong Plum!!!
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Thanks,

I'm drunk right now so the pain is moderately better. I'm pretty sure if it were just arthritis or something I could take it but I have severe spinal stenosis at level C6 which sends nerves out to your arm and shoulder.

The pain is just terrible. I truly thought it would be manageable by MJ or NSAIDS or time but he'll, how do you tell what's just "in your brain" and what's real?

I dunno, life just looks bleak and painful right now. Who wants to live like that?
 
^ I hope that you are hydrating, plum! And hopefully getting a bit of relief.

Be safe and try and get some sleep. Life will look better tomorrow.

- VE
 
VastEmpty said:
^ I hope that you are hydrating, plum! And hopefully getting a bit of relief.

Be safe and try and get some sleep. Life will look better tomorrow.

- VE
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LOL hydrating with sprite and whiskey, does that count?

I hope tomorrow is better but I'm not optimistic.
 
Plum, opiates actually make your pain worse. You can't give up now! What you are currently feeling is NOT what you will feel like in time. You can do this. There is a wonderful life waiting for you on the other side of this. If you give it the time necessary to have a true idea of what type of pain you will be dealing with you will be better equipped to make decisions on how to address that pain. I have clients who are in the same boat as you are. They have legitimate injuries that need to be addressed with medication. Most find themselves on Methadone because it not only address the pain but is also a very powerful tool when used properly to combat addiction. Both you and VE have come so far in this process that it would be such a shame to turn back now. I wish you both the best and have had you in my thoughts and will continue to. ❤
 
Hey plumb , have they ever tried gabapentin for your nerve pain ? It's a great option if it is right for your situation ......

How's it going today vast ?? Startin to come around a little ?
 
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