My last Day 1 (Recovery Journal)

[VastEmpty]

LastDose -

comfort meds were:
kratom
clonidine
Methocarbomal which is a muscle relaxer - I can take 2 up to 3 times a day, but I only did that for the first few days
Ativan - .5 mgs when I really needed it. I have 26 to start and 7 left, so I averaged about 2.5 of those per day
Fairly high levels of medical marijuana eddibles - only once a day, at night. This helped a LOT - more than I can really describe because it gave me that mental "break" I needed and no doubt helped me sleep. It provided about three hours per day of somewhat decent mental moods. But I also live in a state where it is legal and easy to get in large enough quantities to knock out a baby elephant, so probably isn't an option for everyone.

There are also some supplements I took, but just the norm - multivitamin, l-tyrosine, 5-htp, etc.

i didn't take any Lyrica - I've read a lot about it, and did have it on my list of meds to talk to my doctor about. In the end, my doctor thought it wouldn't be necessary, so I didn't push it. My doctor maybe thinks it's not necessary because the plan we discussed was a three week taper - not a cold turkey with three weeks to recover. That's the one lie I told my doctor - he just wouldn't buy off on cold turkey, and I didn't have the heart to tell him that a taper just won't work for me.

- VE

 

[the last dose]

LastDose -

comfort meds were:
kratom
clonidine
Methocarbomal which is a muscle relaxer - I can take 2 up to 3 times a day, but I only did that for the first few days
Ativan - .5 mgs when I really needed it. I have 26 to start and 7 left, so I averaged about 2.5 of those per day
Fairly high levels of medical marijuana eddibles - only once a day, at night. This helped a LOT - more than I can really describe because it gave me that mental "break" I needed and no doubt helped me sleep. It provided about three hours per day of somewhat decent mental moods. But I also live in a state where it is legal and easy to get in large enough quantities to knock out a baby elephant, so probably isn't an option for everyone.

There are also some supplements I took, but just the norm - multivitamin, l-tyrosine, 5-htp, etc.

i didn't take any Lyrica - I've read a lot about it, and did have it on my list of meds to talk to my doctor about. In the end, my doctor thought it wouldn't be necessary, so I didn't push it. My doctor maybe thinks it's not necessary because the plan we discussed was a three week taper - not a cold turkey with three weeks to recover. That's the one lie I told my doctor - he just wouldn't buy off on cold turkey, and I didn't have the heart to tell him that a taper just won't work for me.

- VE

Thanks VE thats a pretty good arsenal i might have a couple more things im gonna add to mine. When you jumped to kratom did you take all the other things with it. Im asking because i have experimented a couple times doing a kratom dose instead of roxy and i dont feel much different or will things change after a couple days on kratom will the oxy withdrawls kick in. The reason why im asking is i want to try to still go to work after going to kratom then after a week or two of weening kratom i was gonna take a week off work when stopping kratom then hopefully using the rest of my comfort meds arsenal then. thanks

 

[I cup]

Was about 3 years ago , the only other time I tried to quit ...... I didn't know about kratom then , I had gabapentin which helped tremendously - I am still rx'd it , come to find out it keeps me from getting the migraines I've always battled .....
Idk what happened , one day I had a little headache and a relative offered one little Vicodin - and that's all it took - I know the zero tolerance policy I have to have now !!

Are you in Wa. State ?

Last dose - lyrica would be just like the gabapentin ( but stronger D/D ) , it will make you feel a little weird - but knock the hell out of all the anxiety ect. for you while weening and jumping - prob need an extra espresso thou , I know I did ..... Try kratom first thou , like 4-5g am/noon/~4pm and don't skip your oxy dose , just take less of it - every 4 days or so you'll be accustomed to it and drop oxy dose a little more , at least for me this was extremely easy - you may only need 2-3G mid day /eveng. , you'll know if you need a little more or less - don't get caught up trying to use it like oxy thou , more deff. isn't better !!
You know you got this !! Do it right and you'll never have to do it again , go slow but with strict goals

Day 9 whut whut !!

 

[the last dose]

Was about 3 years ago , the only other time I tried to quit ...... I didn't know about kratom then , I had gabapentin which helped tremendously - I am still rx'd it , come to find out it keeps me from getting the migraines I've always battled .....
Idk what happened , one day I had a little headache and a relative offered one little Vicodin - and that's all it took - I know the zero tolerance policy I have to have now !!

Are you in Wa. State ?

Last dose - lyrica would be just like the gabapentin ( but stronger D/D ) , it will make you feel a little weird - but knock the hell out of all the anxiety ect. for you while weening and jumping - prob need an extra espresso thou , I know I did ..... Try kratom first thou , like 4-5g am/noon/~4pm and don't skip your oxy dose , just take less of it - every 4 days or so you'll be accustomed to it and drop oxy dose a little more , at least for me this was extremely easy - you may only need 2-3G mid day /eveng. , you'll know if you need a little more or less - don't get caught up trying to use it like oxy thou , more deff. isn't better !!
You know you got this !! Do it right and you'll never have to do it again , go slow but with strict goals

Day 9 whut whut !!

Whats up I cup, I was prescribed gabapentin a couple years back by my pain man. after like 8 months i stopped filling script, i really felt nothing from it i have very high tolerances. Also i was on very high dose oxy then might have something to do with it. I was prescibed it cause i asked for something for nerve pain i get in my feet, didnt do much and i wasnt gonna get addicted to another drug so i dropped it with NO withdrawls at all. Now i just want it for withdrawls because i need something strong for my legs and feet for when the hell starts i already get charlie horses in my calves and pain in my feet. I dont know if you saw my thread about my history ive been on oxys for around 17 years and ive worked my dose down to 15mg roxys yesterday all i did was 3 15s hurtin like hell but im still going. I have kratom but did not get to my doc yet for lyrica and clonidine etc. I think i can jump fully over to kratom without still doing roxy cause i did a couple experiment doses of kratom for roxy and it filled right in i even did two kratom dose one day with one roxy dose i was fine but till i have the other meds from doc on hand i dont wanna jump yet fully just incase. And really i would like to use all the comfort meds for weening and jumping off kratom if possible. thx and day 9 great news!!!

 

[VastEmpty]

I just think tapering is so much easier on my body... I don't have to get full on sick... just a lethargic depressive feeling... sometimes upset stomach, but nothing like c.t. I like how you phrased our experiences... with c.t. "your body does the work, and your mind is along for the ride"... and tapering is such a mind thing... it is so all consuming for me.

When I went cold turkey in 2012, I stayed clean for 15 months... I could knock myself in the head for starting again.

I now have one small bottle of clonidine, some kratom, ativan too for when I jump off. I am ready, let me tell you! I desperately need a new car... but the money I would use for the monthly car payment goes to my pain management doctor, who takes cash only. I would do anything to be able to c.t.... I tried a couple of weeks ago, when my pain management doctor suddenly canceled my appt, due to having his license pulled; however, it was so much worse than I remembered it being, that I caved. I found another doctor who was willing to take me, and so here I am.

If I could get any subs, I would do a week taper, as I read here on BL that it helps immensely with w/d's and if you stop right away, then you don't get addicted to the subs. However, I don't know anyone with them and I don't want them prescribed, as then I am in the state data base as having an addiction problem.

I will continue to work on my taper... and try to stay at as low a dose as I can. You keep up the good work!!

Poke -

i agree with everything you said. Tapering is SO much easier on your body, I am glad you are able to do it that way.

Kratom, Ativan and Clonidine were my go-tos this time. The last time I did it I used that RC tianeptine, in place of the Kratom (which I wouldn't recommend to my worst enemy). The only other thing I used was a muscle relaxer, but honestly, I have my doubts that those worked at all. I think the only reason I would take them at all is cause the bottle said "may cause drowsiness" - which I was really hoping for.

I absolutely would have loved to try a quick sub taper, but had the same problem you did - no access. I even looked up my doctor one time to see if he was able to prescribe it (on some database thing I found) - he is a family GP that I've seen since I was 7...I guess he has no real reason to need to prescribe subs...so he wasn't on the list and I didn't want to ask him. Honestly, subs are the only thing I've ever considered buying "off the street" - but where would I even start? I had to give up on that idea pretty quick.

15 months clean is amazing. How did you feel? Normal? Still PAWS? I can't imagine relapsing after all that time and then facing it down again. I'm so disappointed in my self for losing 42 days - but 15 months! You are strong to pick yourself up and get back on the road after that!

- VE

 

[VastEmpty]

Thanks VE thats a pretty good arsenal i might have a couple more things im gonna add to mine. When you jumped to kratom did you take all the other things with it. Im asking because i have experimented a couple times doing a kratom dose instead of roxy and i dont feel much different or will things change after a couple days on kratom will the oxy withdrawls kick in. The reason why im asking is i want to try to still go to work after going to kratom then after a week or two of weening kratom i was gonna take a week off work when stopping kratom then hopefully using the rest of my comfort meds arsenal then. thanks

That is a good question about the oxy wds kicking in if you just switch to Kratom. Do you think you can only get a week off of work total so you are wanting to use it at the worst time? It pisses me off that a person can't take all the time they need (within reason, of course) and not have to worry about their job. That's bullshit.

Anyway, back to the question...I do think that taking Kratom as an oxy dose every so often will not be as hard as just switching. So, yes, my guess is some mild wds will set in when you go from the oxy to Kratom. I don't think it will be too bad - nothing even close to just quitting.

Personally, I've always used Kratom as a comfort med during acute wds and not as a taper option. When using it as a comfort med, you just basically have to take less and less as the acute wds subside.

Im lucky in that I kinda have a love/hate relationship with Kratom - I love that it exists and that people like us have (I guess I should say "had" - f'in DEA) access to it. I hate it because I find NOTHING pleasurable about taking the stuff. I have tried tons of different methods - capping, tea, toss&wash and even something called parachuting I think. The one that works best for me is the toss and wash, but I don't do it with dry powder because it only takes one time of getting that crap up your nose to learn that tossing that much powder into your mouth sucks. One little sneeze at the wrong time and you are screwed...

Sorry, I don't have a lot of experience with switching and then tapering from the Kratom. Unless you consider my 5ish days of taking it in acute wds a taper.

- VE

 

[I cup]

I would think once you get from oxy to kratom , you shouldn't need anything coming off the kratom .....
Myself , I used during weening oxy down and jumping , and still use it today ..... I've been off oxy for 5 mos this sat. , but the PAWS lingering is what got me last time , and every day has been wonderful w/ kratom so right now I'm not thinking of quitting it. Days I go without I hardly notice , it seems to me real easy to jump from ( thou I will ween it down to nothing BC I'm a pussy ; ) but if you just use it for maybe a cpl weeks right before and when you jump , it will carry you thru wd's needing no help to step off of at that point ..... I think the key is getting a few diff. strains to swap every cpl days , after like 3 days of the same strain it starts not working well
I'm excited for you guys !!

 

[MisterNotSoClean]

LastDose -

comfort meds were:
kratom
clonidine
Methocarbomal which is a muscle relaxer - I can take 2 up to 3 times a day, but I only did that for the first few days
Ativan - .5 mgs when I really needed it. I have 26 to start and 7 left, so I averaged about 2.5 of those per day
Fairly high levels of medical marijuana eddibles - only once a day, at night. This helped a LOT - more than I can really describe because it gave me that mental "break" I needed and no doubt helped me sleep. It provided about three hours per day of somewhat decent mental moods. But I also live in a state where it is legal and easy to get in large enough quantities to knock out a baby elephant, so probably isn't an option for everyone.

There are also some supplements I took, but just the norm - multivitamin, l-tyrosine, 5-htp, etc.

i didn't take any Lyrica - I've read a lot about it, and did have it on my list of meds to talk to my doctor about. In the end, my doctor thought it wouldn't be necessary, so I didn't push it. My doctor maybe thinks it's not necessary because the plan we discussed was a three week taper - not a cold turkey with three weeks to recover. That's the one lie I told my doctor - he just wouldn't buy off on cold turkey, and I didn't have the heart to tell him that a taper just won't work for me.

- VE

Lol I actually told my doc I was going CT and he was definitely not happy about that. Like you, I wasn't keen on tapering. I honestly didn't know if I had the mental fortitude nor patience for it and wasn't planning on finding out. I guess I find it easier to hurl myself off a cliff than to slowly and gingerly climb down a mountain.

How far along are you now and how ya feeling compared to the first few days?

~MrNotSoClean~

 

[VastEmpty]

^ haha, yeah when I mentioned the idea of "just quitting" to my doctor, it was like a scene in a movie where he stopped writing, paused, looked up ever so slowly and said "...now, why would you want to do that." It wasn't even a question so much as a statement. Then commenced the whole "well, you know, rip off the bandaid, that sorta thing" - he then kinda chuckled at me and laid out a taper plan.

Honestly, he was so astounded I said it, it makes me wonder if he had ever heard it before. I didn't want to push it.

Ok, so today (in 8 minutes!) is day 9 and I was able to get out and do some minor exercise and get a few things done. I'm glad it's over and I am glad I did it. But I feel far from normal or good. The chills are killer, as is the random bouts of sweating, and the lack of decent sleep. And the fatigue. And the yawning. I'm still taking immodium, or I would be by the toilet all day. Only 2 of the 2mg pills. I'll drop it to 1 tomorrow and see if it will hold me.

Im still taking the Ativan for sleeping, which I'm kinda bummed about. I wanted to be free of Ativan and Kratom by day 7. But I guess one hiccup in the plan isn't the end of the world. I haven't had any Kratom in over 36 hours and I'm doing fine with that - but I need that Ativan to fall asleep. In the next few days I'm gonna run out anyway. I could ask my doctor for more, but I won't. I need to be able to sleep without the use of chemicals.

I feel like I'm just going through the motions, which I guess I am. But hell, day 9 beats day 1-8.

- VE

 

[MisterNotSoClean]

Yeah my doc did the same thing. Gave me that "Are you god damn stupid?" look with the raised eyebrow. He flat out said I will not have success. I don't know to this day if he said that truthfully or possibly to play on my "Well I'll show you" attitude.

He did give me a script for Ambien for sleep but never touched it as I had issues in the past with it. ( I woke up in my underwear, in the pouring rain, under a pool deck, covered in mud, and had no fucking idea what happened.) I still have the script in my wallet actually.

Hopefully OC wds aren't as drawn out as sub wds. At day 45ish? I am feeling leap and bounds better than than at day 30. I have been able to fall asleep no issue almost every night for the past week aided by 10mg Melatonin but DO NOT take if you are having rls as you will just be super tired but can't go to sleep.

When you get off the Ativan, as long as your rls isn't bad, try Melatonin. Unlike nyquil or unisom, I don't feel drugged in the morning.

If your rls is bad... well you know by now prolly what I would suggest

I know what that zombie like stagger feels like. Monotonous and droning. It's like trying to peel a potato with wolverine healing factor.

Anyways keep it up, sounds like you are doing awesome!

 

[VastEmpty]

If your rls is bad... well you know by now prolly what I would suggest

Yes! Walk! Even though I don't feel like it, it'll help! See - I pay attention!

- VE

 

[MisterNotSoClean]

[video]https://youtu.be/neMFtbpr9fo[/video]

Walk!

 

[the last dose]

Yes! Walk! Even though I don't feel like it, it'll help! See - I pay attention!

- VE

Walk and try to exercise, i have been still lifting weights with my son in my basement and going for walks every night during my taper (almost every night there was a couple i was to beat and depressed) but not many. Thru it all i have noticed my strength dropping some but its more the reason to push on. Hey VE way to go no kratom for over 36 hours that is GREAT to hear very inspiring maybe all the stuff you read about getting off kratom is alot easier than ops is true. day 10 today for you must feel great just to get those first 5 to 7 days behind you keep up the good fight!

 

[VastEmpty]

Walk and try to exercise, i have been still lifting weights with my son in my basement and going for walks every night during my taper (almost every night there was a couple i was to beat and depressed) but not many

I also am walking every evening. And for the last three days during the day as well. My problem at this point is that I only have bursts of energy...when I'm in bed and can't sleep. Seriously, I lay there thinking about how I should get up and run sprints. Haha. But my ultimate goal is to exercise the shit out of my PAWS!

Quick update from the end of day 9 - or at least almost the end - I haven't taken anything since yesterday morning at about 2:30 am when I took a Clonidine and Ativan - 30ish hours. My BP is holding steady (checking it every two hours), so I think I'm done with the Clonodine unless I get a BP spike. I ended up tapering for about the last three days by taking it every 12 hrs instead of 6-8.

I cant sleep for shit. But I am to the point where it isn't too painful to not sleep. The first 1-7 days were pretty wicked, but that's too be expected after damn near a decade. But now, I lay in bed and watch Netflix, or toss and turn in a not too unpleasant way. Would I rather be sleeping? Yep. But at least it's not the insomnia that hurts every fucking second you are awake anymore. It's not the kind that makes you want to crawl out of your skin and run around like a demon. Now, it's more just blah.

Except that when I'm not feeling blah I'm getting feelings again. After a long time. And they aren't really easy to push away anymore. Now I have to sit with them and know that if I don't push them away then they will go away on their own (and come back less pissed off next time). It's easier said than done - but, I'm trying.

I know I'm not out of the woods yet, but here are a few things I credit my early success to:
1. An understanding of what opiates were doing to my life that I didn't like, and a commitment to making those aspects of my life better. This includes things like - getting healthy physically, being more present in life, remembering shit again, stillness (mental) without chemicals, not starting my day feeling like shit every day, etc. When I made a list of all the things that needed to change in my life - I realized that it wasn't going to get done with the opiates. I could pick the pills or my other priorities, simple as that. Understanding how opiates changed my brain chemistry and understanding that abstinence was the only way to "fix" it was really helpful.
2. A plan and a doctor that doesn't suck. A huge part of my "plan" was scheduling time off of work and other responsibilities.
3. BL dark side (thanks guys!!!)
4. Mindfulness/meditative type stuff. I'm still learning so it's not real comfortable yet, but it helps.
5. Kratom

Thats all I've got for now.

- VE

 

[VastEmpty]

Just saying - I'm about to find out how long man can live on juice alone (albeit very good and expensive-as-shit juice).

Does the appitite come back soon? I actually didn't experience this to this large of a degree the last two times. My appetite wasn't good for the first week-ish, but then it came back. I'm an hour away from double digits (10 days!!!) - and I, literally cannot remember the last solid thing I ate. Unless you consider the multivitamins solid food...

- VE

 

[MisterNotSoClean]

Juice and multi vitamin diet. Yummy.

I maybe lost my appetite the first few days but I still forced myself to eat solid food as my stomach is made of iron.

Have you tried any solidish food?

 

[P0kemama]

VE: Can you try to eat a mashed up banana? The vitamins and minerals will be so helpful and it is easily digested. Congrats on 10 days! Double digit days clean are awesome!

 

[VastEmpty]

Yeah, honestly, the double digits do feel good - triple digits here I come (1/10th of already there!)!!!

Thanks for the banana idea Poke - but I medically can't (shouldn't is a better word) have bananas. Potassium and my autoimmune condition do not get along well. In fact, I've read that back in the day (before cameras that were the size of a button hole and attached to wires) that they used potassium to diagnose my condition. They would feed some poor soul a crap ton of it, and if it hurt - uh oh - looks like you have ICS! I even have to be careful with leafy greens and mushrooms cause if the amount of potassium.

I feel like the not eating is contributing to my "zombie" feeling. But this too shall pass, right? how you doing Poke?

- VE

 

[VastEmpty]

Juice and multi vitamin diet. Yummy.

I maybe lost my appetite the first few days but I still forced myself to eat solid food as my stomach is made of iron.

Have you tried any solidish food?

MrClean (sorry, I've officially renamed you!) -

Usually I can force it and just choke something down. But right now if I even look at, or think about food, I feel SO nauseous and gag if I try too hard.

I thought harder after my post about not remembering the last time I ate solid food. I did have some popcorn around day 3-4, but remember my arm wasn't strong enough to go from bowl to mouth for very long...also, I had 6ish ounces of soup around day 5.

My juices are healthy at least - they boast a whole three lbs of fresh fruits and vegetables into about 20 ounces. They cost me a fortune and I have to get them every day cause they are obviously perishable. One in the afternoon and one at night is what I've been forcing down for the last week. so, when I say juice, I don't mean apple juice from Safeway, it's like legit juice...but I can feel my body needing more energy...or maybe I just feel my body needing some sleep.

Jesus I think the insomnia may be making me delirious. Thanks for listening to my ranting guys!

- VE

 

[I cup]

So , you are getting nourished and that's good .... No potassium in the juice ? I was real picky the first cpl weeks but then my appetite came back real heavy like overnight - I was sticking to Cali. rolls at sushi place and the per cooked chicken breast strips they sell for like salads ect. , then it was like gimme a pizza and a triple cheeseburger !! It'll come back , at least you are conscious of it and still getting good stuff in ya !
10 days !!! Damn !! Just keep where you were fresh in your head to keep from going back and you have it made , just keep those emotions in check ; )