Methadone, Bupe and gasp Codeine!

[*=Regulator=*]

If you mean why did i up dosage from 16 a day to 32mg a day, well while on 16 i relapsed and started using, i went and seen my case worker and doctor and told them the truth that it wasnt holding me (note i did NOT ask to be upped, i never have).

Just on this, what drug did you relapse with? Can you please elaborate on the substance and dose? If it was codeine, it would have had absolutely no effect while you were on a huge dose of Suboxone like 16mg +. Taking codeine on a Suboxone dose that high would be like firing a ping pong ball at a tank - it would do absolutely nothing!

Based on my experience with codeine and Suboxone, it sounds like your treatment has been severely mismanaged. Rather than increasing your dose because you still had 'cravings', they should have kept you on a low dose (8mg at most) and let you stabilise. Suboxone is in a completely different league to codeine. Even a 2mg dose is far, far stronger than the 400mg + codeine dose you were on. Given the comparative strengths of the two drugs, I'd say that your 'cravings' would have to have been completely psychological. In my experience, addiction Drs will let you tell them what dose you want to be on but even so, it's simply irresponsible for a Dr. to up you to that dose without making you sit on the dose for a month or so to let it stabilise.

I'm quite concerned that you have jumped out of the tiny little scrub fire into a raging inferno. It could take you years to drop down from a dose of 32mg and replacing Suboxone with Methadone just bumps you up another level, like going from 8mg to 16mg to 32mg. Since you started on maintenance treatment all you have done is get your addiction more and more entrenched. To be honest, it sounds like you are chasing a high which is completely contrary to maintenance treatment. Before you go to Methadone, try sitting at your current dose of Suboxone and evaluate its efficacy not by how high you get but by the absence of withdrawal symptoms. You have to give it a few weeks before writing it off as ineffectual.

Good luck and feel free to shoot me a PM if you want to talk to someone who's been though something simlar.

*edit* Didn't realise this thread went for seven pages - what I've said may be irrelevant at this point. I'll leave it there as there's a chance it could be of interest to someone else in similar circumstances

 

[Mr Blonde]

^ I completely agree with everything said there. Stiffeno, you should have been stabilized at a much lower dose and then talked with an addiction counselor about the cravings and how to manage them. Cravings are one of the hardest parts of trying to get better, but maintenance opioids aren't the answer in all cases. Even stabilizing at a high dose of methadone isn't going to fix things; you will feel better for a while as you adjust to the dose, but then once you normalize on it the cravings will come back and you will probably end up asking to go higher. I have had experience with methadone patients in a clinical setting, and spoken to them quite a bit and I have heard this story over and over. The people who did well on methadone were the ones who realized that simply being on methadone wasn't the answer to all their problems and that they had to use other avenues of help to get their lives back in order and to get over the desire to use again.

 

[Stiffeno]

Just on this, what drug did you relapse with? Can you please elaborate on the substance and dose? If it was codeine, it would have had absolutely no effect while you were on a huge dose of Suboxone like 16mg +. Taking codeine on a Suboxone dose that high would be like firing a ping pong ball at a tank - it would do absolutely nothing!

Based on my experience with codeine and Suboxone, it sounds like your treatment has been severely mismanaged. Rather than increasing your dose because you still had 'cravings', they should have kept you on a low dose (8mg at most) and let you stabilise. Suboxone is in a completely different league to codeine. Even a 2mg dose is far, far stronger than the 400mg + codeine dose you were on. Given the comparative strengths of the two drugs, I'd say that your 'cravings' would have to have been completely psychological. In my experience, addiction Drs will let you tell them what dose you want to be on but even so, it's simply irresponsible for a Dr. to up you to that dose without making you sit on the dose for a month or so to let it stabilise.

I'm quite concerned that you have jumped out of the tiny little scrub fire into a raging inferno. It could take you years to drop down from a dose of 32mg and replacing Suboxone with Methadone just bumps you up another level, like going from 8mg to 16mg to 32mg. Since you started on maintenance treatment all you have done is get your addiction more and more entrenched. To be honest, it sounds like you are chasing a high which is completely contrary to maintenance treatment. Before you go to Methadone, try sitting at your current dose of Suboxone and evaluate its efficacy not by how high you get but by the absence of withdrawal symptoms. You have to give it a few weeks before writing it off as ineffectual.

Good luck and feel free to shoot me a PM if you want to talk to someone who's been though something simlar.

*edit* Didn't realise this thread went for seven pages - what I've said may be irrelevant at this point. I'll leave it there as there's a chance it could be of interest to someone else in similar circumstances

Yeah your post was a little late, i have been on Methadone for nearly 2 weeks now. With my new dose of 45mg, my cravings are virtually gone and my back pain is....well....GONE! Ofcourse late at night it starts to come back, but generally through the day my pain is very little, if any...which is great! Im not going to tell the doctor how im feeling JUST yet, coz i dont wanna go and say "Hey 45mg is good for me"...and then 4 days later find out i was wrong. I will stay at 45mg for a while and say in a week or 2 speak to my doctor about my findings.

Also tbh im not chasing the high, while when i was on the codeine at times i did take some to relax, virtually all other times i used it, it was solely for pain (and in the end to stop withdrawal pains)...i wasn't a recreational user as such!

Edit: @Mr Blonde - Every counselor and Psych i have ever been sent to wasnt a drug specialized on (well one woman was but she wasnt very good at all), so the advice they give me doesnt really help in terms of cravings and ways to minimize/eliminate them =/

Off topic: Mr Blonde did you get your name from "Pulp Fiction"? i love that movie . And did you know that the drug supplier (The one where Travolta crashes his car into his house) was originally going to played by Kurt Cobain , but sadely Kurt died that same year so yeah (PS: I love Nirvana!)

 

[Mr Blonde]

^ It's from another Tarantino film actually.... Reservoir Dogs.

Edit: @Mr Blonde - Every counselor and Psych i have ever been sent to wasnt a drug specialized on (well one woman was but she wasnt very good at all), so the advice they give me doesnt really help in terms of cravings and ways to minimize/eliminate them =/

Going to a specialized drug counselor can be a good idea; a surprising amount are former drug users themselves and know what it's like to be through this. Like all psychology and therapy work though, you have to put in the work yourself. It took me a while to realize that when I was regularly seeing a psychologist and at one point mental health workers and a drug counselor that I'd have to challenge myself and really take on their advice and completely implement changes in my life to see the results I wanted. The fact that I'm back on BL now and my mental health is a lot better is testament to the fact that though it can be hard, it is well worth it in the end if you truly wish to get better.

 

[Stiffeno]

Yeah i Reservoir dogs thats the one lol, the one where thy rob and Jewelery store and Michael Masden (spelling?) shoots up the place like a nutcase ahaha.

And yes i will need to put in the effort, as the saying goes "You cant help someone who wont help themself!".

Edit: I actually read somewhere that the gold glowing briefcase from Pulp Fiction is actually the items from the Reservoir dogs heist . Also when they go to the 50's bar, Steve buscemi plays "Buddy Holly" as a waiter...its ironic coz his character in Res Dogs "Never tips waitresses" lol

 

[Mr Blonde]

^ Ha ha, yeah that's the guy, played by Michael Madsen... after I saw that movie I went out and bought a straight razor, not that I needed to shave much at the age of 13/14.

There's a lot of theories about what was in the briefcase, some crazy some not so crazy... some people think it was Marsellus's soul but I just like to keep it a mystery in my mind.

It's good you recognize that it will take effort to get well again; how old are you, if you don't mind my asking? There are free drug counseling services out there, quite a few aimed specifically to drug users 25 and under and they can be very helpful.

 

[Stiffeno]

I am 25 years old

Off topic: My son turns 3 on January 2nd , lucky boy to have Xmas then his bday a week later haha! Bad for me coz i gotta buy more gifts

 

[drug_mentor]

Pulp Fiction is my favourite movie of all time and if theres one thing that drove me nuts its the briefcase.

I love that scene in Reservoir Dogs just before Mr Blonde pulls out his razor, so fucking cold blooded haha

 

[Mr Blonde]

^ I love that scene as well, and that song 'Stuck In The Middle With You'... such a great movie.

I am 25 years old

It might be worth contacting the NSW Alcohol and Drug Information Service and asking them what free counselling services are available, or just plain out asking your doctor/case manager about what services are available to you. I can't stress enough how important good drug counselling is when trying to heal yourself from an addiction. When I had a psychotic episode, it was during the same period that I was using codeine daily and at the same time using a lot of LSD and other psychedelics even though it was having disastrous effects on my mental health; I just couldn't stop for some reason. I had a case worker as part of my treatment for the psychosis once I had been released from hospital, and after talking about how I wanted to cut down on my drug use but found it so hard to do so, he arranged for me to have counselling at a service specifically aimed at young adults. They helped me get my use down a lot at the time, and even gave me assistance in dealing with Centrelink and assistance in looking for work, preparing a resume, etc... once I was in a position where I could work again.

Alcohol and Drug Information Service (ADIS)
Sydney: 02 9361 8000
Regional NSW: 1800 422 599
A 24-hour confidential information, advice and referral telephone service.

I really think it would help you a lot to have that kind of extra support on top of the maintenance therapy, and I'd like to see you posting on BL one day about your successes in overcoming your problems. You've already made progress as we've seen in this thread and things will get better and it's inspiring to other people who find themselves in similar situations to know that things do get better.

 

[Stiffeno]

"Stuck in the middle with you" thats right, the cop is tied up after i think Mr Blonde is told not to do anything...after everyone leaves he pulls out a razor, starts dancing around and then proceeds to saw the cops ear off hahah thats right lol. Edit: Oh and didnt he douse him in fuel or something? he was gunna burn him alive O_O!

I will look into contacting those ppl for some free services , my first psych was costing me 98 bux a visit (though i got like 76 bux back from rebate, so was only costing me like 12 bux. But each and every single time i went to claim my cash back, there was a screwup somewhere, and i couldnt get my money for a week!!! So each time i paid 100 bux odd, i would basically be out that money for nearly a week!

I will defo keep posting my story to hopefully help someone else in the future, though sometimes when ppl post tings like "Are you a f'ing moron?" i kinda get a bit down, like im a failure . Also when my mother see's me posting on this site she seems to get the shits, she goes "I see you are posting on that junky site again, trying to find ways to get more drugs are ya?"...she is a bloody idiot! I explained to her that ppl post their stories and offer advice on help, not sit around figuring out ways to score more drugs....but she just goes "Whatever!!" -_-, its like arguing with a brick wall!

 

[Mr Blonde]

but she just goes "Whatever!!" -_-, its like arguing with a brick wall!

I've been there before.

though sometimes when ppl post tings like "Are you a f'ing moron?" i kinda get a bit down, like im a failure

Report posts like that. Everyone deserves to be able to discuss their story and give their opinions within the framework of rules we have set up, and people who are insulting or attack others are not welcome. Sometimes posts might not be seen directly by a moderator, but if reported we are made aware of it via email and via the forum and we can act on it as soon as possible.

I will look into contacting those ppl for some free services , my first psych was costing me 98 bux a visit (though i got like 76 bux back from rebate, so was only costing me like 12 bux. But each and every single time i went to claim my cash back, there was a screwup somewhere, and i couldnt get my money for a week!!! So each time i paid 100 bux odd, i would basically be out that money for nearly a week!

Yeah waiting to get the rebate back can be annoying; luckily I always got my psychology rebates immediately. And my psych was so nice she even started bulk billing me when my work situation became unstable.

 

[Crankinit]

You really need to move out and get your own space man. Not trying to criticize but it's obvious your mum's attitude is having a real detrimental effect on your mood, which isn't going to help with everything else going on in your life.

 

[Stiffeno]

You really need to move out and get your own space man. Not trying to criticize but it's obvious your mum's attitude is having a real detrimental effect on your mood, which isn't going to help with everything else going on in your life.

Ive known this for a long time, and ive trid to move somewhere but i just cant find anywhere. It was virtually impossible for me and my ex-gf together to get a place, let alone just me on my own with half the income i had when with her =/

Edit: While im definitely not happy being here, it was much worse living with my gf for 4.5 years, i just didnt realize it at the time. Looking back at pics and hat my family use to say to me its clear how bad off i was! I was 12 kilo skinnier (i actually look sick in most pics of me), i was majorly depressed, i was suffering anxiety daily, i was hooked on drugs....man the photo's of me look so bad, i cant believe i thought i was happy living like i was....i didnt even eat dinner more than once every couple days...sometimes not for 3 days =/

The only thing that was good about living there was i could just get up and see my son whenever i wanted, not just see him once a week like now. But i was also hooked on online games aswell as the drugs so i didnt spend much time with my son, which depresses me when i think about all the times i spent near a computer instead of with him. Though he was never neglected, he always had food and drinks and supervision.

 

[Stiffeno]

When I was getting my dose the other day i grabbed the cup wrong and nearly DROPPED IT O_O, me and the nurses nearly died lol...shoulda seen our faces . I woulda been pissed coz if you drop it or it gets stolen they dont replace the dose...that would have SUCKED!!!

 

[TaSiPtR]

^ Glad to hear that you are feeling much better now your dose is coming up. I dropped my dose at the cemist about six months ago was hung over and feeling like crap anyway pharmacist just had a chuckle and got me another it's generally only T.A's they wont replace (so they say) knocked over 1 T.A. in like 8 years was on the phone to my doc in 5 mins 15 mins later had 1 waiting at the cemist that was 3 or 4 years ago now they had a lot more leeway then.

 

[Stiffeno]

When i pickup my dose cup now i place my hand over the top of the cup rather then grab the side, which is how i nearly knocked it over!

Since ive been on Methadone my mother said ive become "Fucked in the head", she says i always get anger randomly and so forth...the thing is most times i get the shits its because something my mother says or bitches at me...then again i cant really say how others preceeve me =/. Can Methadone cause rage or random spirts of aggression? (not physically, just verbal)

Edit: I dunno if this is due to the Methadone or what, but every morning before and even after my dose i get really sick in the gut....im not sure what is causing it but it is very unpleasant. Its not like the normal gut sickness i used to get from not having a high enough dose, its wierd =/. Dunno if my dose needs upping or downing or what, i will tell my doctor about it when i see him on the 15th!

 

[drug_mentor]

^ In my experience there have definately times where opiates made me a touch short tempered, I have read of quite a number of people that seem to think opioids make them easily agitated. I have noticed it with people on opiates at times as well, but usually benzos would be involved too.

 

[TaSiPtR]

^ I can relate to the gut thing I used to get that for the first 6 - 8months I found eating before dosing I know it can be hard esp if feeling crook but def helped. Secondly my mother & ex used to bitch hard about me being moody & short tempered when on it I think I'm fine & don't notice but others do/ did nowadays it seems that I only get like that when I double up or take Xanax with my dose.

 

[Stiffeno]

Once again woke up feeling so sick in the gut, went to the toilet coz i thought i was gunna have the runs but i didnt (i use to suffer IBS something shocking and basically had the runs 24/7...but not anymore thanks to opiots!). Yesterday after i took my dose and walking outside i nearly spewed (and im the kinda person who NEVER spews unless im super drunk or super sick). I told the staff at the clinic how ive been feeling and i was gunna be able to see the doctor this arvo but i wasnt able to get there so i gotta see the doctor tomorrow at 10:30am (which sucks coz i hate gettin up early lol...then again most days i cant sleep in coz i feel shit). The only problem is, the doctor im gunna see tomorrow is the really strict one, the one who wanted me sick as a dog at 30mg so i cant see him being too happy with me for having the other doctor over-ride him =/ (kinda worried what he is gunna say!).

As for the anger thing i havent taken any Benzo's so i know its not that, i do notice more often that i get agitated and stressed easier (i forgot to take my anti-depressant last night -_- damn me!).

Today while at the clinic i finally met the resident "Joker" of the clinic, he walks in and goes "Who am i after?" and i sorta raised my arm a bit as if to say "Yeah after me", and he goes "You dont have to raise your hand, your not in class now!" O_O...im 25 years old not a kid LOL. He goes "I havent seen you here before, you just get outa gaol?" (he said seriously) to which i responded "Nah never been in lockup"....and he explained how he had never seen me there before and he was a long timer there. I explained to him that id been going there a few weeks now, just at random times so thats prob why hasnt seen me. He explained that he was the "funny man" of the clinic and not to take him seriously lol. I can see many future wierd meetings with this man lol

 

[Mr Blonde]

Since ive been on Methadone my mother said ive become "Fucked in the head", she says i always get anger randomly and so forth...the thing is most times i get the shits its because something my mother says or bitches at me...then again i cant really say how others preceeve me =/. Can Methadone cause rage or random spirts of aggression? (not physically, just verbal)

I definitely have a short temper on opioids, most of the time I mange to hold it in but sometimes I can be quite sharp and get very angry very quickly.