That sounds exactly like me, i guess my family will have to put up with it. Today so far ive been able to not get angry, easier now my meds have kicked in and im feeling much less sick. Mum hasnt bitches at me today either which is helping
Methadone, Bupe and gasp Codeine!
- Thread starter Stiffeno
- Start date
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Well todays appointment was a complete and utter WASTE OF TIME!!!!
As i expected Dr Dickhead not only didnt raise my dose, but he didnt offer me a single shred of advice on wtf to do to help with how ive been feeling every single day, all he did was write down what i told him in his stupid little book and didnt say ANYTHING! I asked him if i have the option to go up if need be, and he said "When i see you next ill see then".....umm wtf? When i was in the dosing waiting room my case worker who is one of the head ppl there asked me "So the doctor put you up?" and i said "Nope, he said i dont even have the option to go up until i see him next on Jan 19th....5 weeks from now!!!"....and she goes "WHAT!!!! WHY? What was his reasoning?" and i told her that he said "I need to be on this dose for a while...."....this is the same guy who thought it was a good idea to keep me at 30mg and sick constantly. My case worker said "Dont get your dose yet, im gunna go speak to the doctor". She came back and said "Come on through next".....but...nothing, no change, she didnt even tell me wtf the doctor said.
Can i like request to be transferred to a different doctor or something? this guy is a total joke of a doctor, he is the head doctor there but the other doctor i seen was reasonable! There is no WAY im staying sick like this for another 5 weeks, at which point he STILL might choose not to raise me....which wont be surprising with his actions so far.
I feel demoralized every time i leave that fucking clinic and see that doctor! And im sick to death of it!
As i expected Dr Dickhead not only didnt raise my dose, but he didnt offer me a single shred of advice on wtf to do to help with how ive been feeling every single day, all he did was write down what i told him in his stupid little book and didnt say ANYTHING! I asked him if i have the option to go up if need be, and he said "When i see you next ill see then".....umm wtf? When i was in the dosing waiting room my case worker who is one of the head ppl there asked me "So the doctor put you up?" and i said "Nope, he said i dont even have the option to go up until i see him next on Jan 19th....5 weeks from now!!!"....and she goes "WHAT!!!! WHY? What was his reasoning?" and i told her that he said "I need to be on this dose for a while...."....this is the same guy who thought it was a good idea to keep me at 30mg and sick constantly. My case worker said "Dont get your dose yet, im gunna go speak to the doctor". She came back and said "Come on through next".....but...nothing, no change, she didnt even tell me wtf the doctor said.
Can i like request to be transferred to a different doctor or something? this guy is a total joke of a doctor, he is the head doctor there but the other doctor i seen was reasonable! There is no WAY im staying sick like this for another 5 weeks, at which point he STILL might choose not to raise me....which wont be surprising with his actions so far.
I feel demoralized every time i leave that fucking clinic and see that doctor! And im sick to death of it!
Sorry for double post but i got some new info.
Just called the clinic to put in an official complaint and asked to be transferred to another doctor, i was transferred to my case worker and as soon as she heard "I feel my case is being treated poorly" she goes "This is Stephen isnt it?"...so she knew! Anyways i cannot change doctors right now for some reason (didnt tell me why) but she is going to be bringing my case up next Thursday at a weekly clinical review they do when all the doctors get together and talk about stuff (The other doctor i seen - The one i like - is going to be there too as well as my case worker).
I asked her what the doctor said when she spoke to him today, and she said "He doesnt want you to go up too high, he wants you to stay at 45mg"....so there you have it, he didnt say that to me, he said "ill see about possibly upping it in 5 weeks"....he has NO INTENTION of ever altering it, but he wont tell me that...he just makes me hope and hope for 5 weeks then will knock me back, JUST as i told you he will! I said to my case worker on the phone that "He wanted me to stay at 30mg too, and i was sick as a dog constantly! and now he wants me to stay at this dose?".
I just hope he doesnt bring up his reasoning at the meeting for not upping me because i was only on codeine at the start, while yes going on bupe or Methadone was probably the worst thing the doctors (and i) could have done, but the damage has been done. No matter how "weak" my original drug was, thanks to the bupe i now have a massive tolerance...so the fact that i was on a "weak" opioid originally doesn't matter. Now if i was trying to up my dose of Methadone after JUST being on codeine i could see them not wanting to do it, but bupe is hard stuff....im no longer a codeine addict im a bupe addict, and they need to treat my case as such!
Edit: If after the clinical review the doctor doesn't help me in some way im going to contact them again and ask to change doctor, if they don't agree i wont be going back to the clinic!
Just called the clinic to put in an official complaint and asked to be transferred to another doctor, i was transferred to my case worker and as soon as she heard "I feel my case is being treated poorly" she goes "This is Stephen isnt it?"...so she knew! Anyways i cannot change doctors right now for some reason (didnt tell me why) but she is going to be bringing my case up next Thursday at a weekly clinical review they do when all the doctors get together and talk about stuff (The other doctor i seen - The one i like - is going to be there too as well as my case worker).
I asked her what the doctor said when she spoke to him today, and she said "He doesnt want you to go up too high, he wants you to stay at 45mg"....so there you have it, he didnt say that to me, he said "ill see about possibly upping it in 5 weeks"....he has NO INTENTION of ever altering it, but he wont tell me that...he just makes me hope and hope for 5 weeks then will knock me back, JUST as i told you he will! I said to my case worker on the phone that "He wanted me to stay at 30mg too, and i was sick as a dog constantly! and now he wants me to stay at this dose?".
I just hope he doesnt bring up his reasoning at the meeting for not upping me because i was only on codeine at the start, while yes going on bupe or Methadone was probably the worst thing the doctors (and i) could have done, but the damage has been done. No matter how "weak" my original drug was, thanks to the bupe i now have a massive tolerance...so the fact that i was on a "weak" opioid originally doesn't matter. Now if i was trying to up my dose of Methadone after JUST being on codeine i could see them not wanting to do it, but bupe is hard stuff....im no longer a codeine addict im a bupe addict, and they need to treat my case as such!
Edit: If after the clinical review the doctor doesn't help me in some way im going to contact them again and ask to change doctor, if they don't agree i wont be going back to the clinic!
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Stiffeno, if you go back and re-read this whole thread from the beginning, you will see we weren't trying to mean to you. We were offering you advice about would probably happen to you if you went down the road of opiate maintenance, it appears what myself and others warned you about has come to fruition. I feel for you, but this is the way the system is.
Mr Blonde
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^ Yep, it is sad to see how the thread has progressed from the beginning to now. You might find it hard to find a doctor who just does what you want Stiffeno, and at least on this dose of methadone you are feeling better. It is common for doctors to want to try and stabilize a patient on a dose, and it doesn't sound like you are too sick on this dose going off the posts you have made before.
The other days were like heaven compared to how i am today, so sick i barely could walk into the clinic, been trying not to vomit to not waste the dose.
When i got to the clinic a letter was waiting for me from my case worker, it was a list of Methadone prescribing doctors. The staff at the clinic and my case worker both agree that i should find a different doctor...though im still allowed to dose at my current clinic.
Edit: I dont know what has suddenly made me sick, but this last 4-5 days im getting worse and worse each day...i dont know what is happening to me! I actually get scared to go to sleep coz i know when i wake up im gunna feel like this =/. And yes i agree my story has taken a turn for the worse...but this isnt a Hollywood movie where the good guys prevail and have a happy ending, this is my life and bad things can and have happened!
@opi8: By the time i started this thread i was already on large doses of Bupe, so it was already far too late for me! Im just going to take it one day at a time and see how things go, hopefully i will have good days between the bad ones...its what keeps me going!
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Mr Blonde
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^ Perhaps you are sick with a virus or infection? It's strange that you would find the dose working for you then suddenly it is no longer working and you are in WD. You should be able to stabilize on the dose, it is not meant to just be continually raised.
Well i dont have any symptoms that you would expect from a virus or something like that, no cold, no runny nose or anything like that. I dunno, i just wake up really sick in the stomach like i need to throw up, i thought it might be hunger at first but i have eaten (as hard as it was to eat with a queezy stomach) but it didnt help, so i really do not know =/
Mr Blonde
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^ Good idea.
Those are all symptoms of opioid WD as well though, and not all viral infections or bacterial infections cause all those symptoms. That would be a cold or flu; you can have an infection that just causes nausea and not those other symptoms. Try the Phenergan, or maybe a less sedating antihistamine like Polaramine, and see if that helps with the nausea. I don't think you are having WD symptoms.
Stiffeno said:
Those are all symptoms of opioid WD as well though, and not all viral infections or bacterial infections cause all those symptoms. That would be a cold or flu; you can have an infection that just causes nausea and not those other symptoms. Try the Phenergan, or maybe a less sedating antihistamine like Polaramine, and see if that helps with the nausea. I don't think you are having WD symptoms.
I will look into those medications, personally ive never heard of either of them :S...ill ask a chemist or something about them, thanks.
One reason why i think/thought it was WD sickness is because 2-3 hours after taking my dose it seems to go away. Like right now im feeling much better than i was, and i had my dose a few hours ago now. Its just in the mornings and a few hours following my dose i feel extremely sick to my stomach. I will indeed look into those meds though and see if they help for the mornings before i can take my dose.
I have actually had to get lifts to the clinic every day coz im far too sick to walk/use buses and trains.
Edit: Are they available Over the counter or by prescription?
One reason why i think/thought it was WD sickness is because 2-3 hours after taking my dose it seems to go away. Like right now im feeling much better than i was, and i had my dose a few hours ago now. Its just in the mornings and a few hours following my dose i feel extremely sick to my stomach. I will indeed look into those meds though and see if they help for the mornings before i can take my dose.
I have actually had to get lifts to the clinic every day coz im far too sick to walk/use buses and trains.
Edit: Are they available Over the counter or by prescription?
Mr Blonde
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^ They are both S3 medications available OTC, I'm not sure on what the protocol is in NSW but in QLD you have to give details to get them. They aren't really abusable and you shouldn't have a hard time getting them usually. Say you use them for allergies and that you have used them before, some pharmacists will only sell them for use for severe allergies and not for any other indications.
footscrazy
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You could have a stomach ulcer, given your description of the symptoms and since you said you thought it might be hunger.
What times are you eating relative to your dose? Maybe you'll find the pain isn't related to your dose at all, but rather, when you're eating. As you can see above, different positions of ulcers cause pain at different times relative to eating.
Given your history, I wouldn't be at all surprised if you had an ulcer.
Also remember that methadone is a pain killer so it is going to help relieve any pain you're feeling - that doesn't mean the pain is necessarily caused by withdrawal though.
DoctorChemX
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Dear Stiffeno,
I Admit i am too lazy to read all of the posts in this eight-page
thread, but i read a couple on the first page, including your first
post. And from what i gather, you where taking a lot of codeine,
just like me at one point, some days i'd take 40 merysndol tablets,
and my mother, actually knew this, she was so worried and terrified
she rang emergency, i don't actually want to talk about that, thankfully
however my codeine and opiate nightmare is over, for good, but the guilt
that i feel for my parents is tremendous and horrible, but i have benzos for
that now, and they calm my anxiety and let me live happily again thankfully.
I'm glad your liver is okay, it seems the liver can indeed take massive amounts
of paracatemol before any serious damage occurs, regarding ulcers, only NSAID's
will cause them as they irriate the stomach-lining, not paracetamol. Some days i
use to take about 50 ibuprofen codeine tablets, and i don't have an ulcer, thankfully,
as i was tested for one recently. Here's a tip though, for anyone who does abuse codene
containing ibuprofen tablets, try and get a prescription for Esomeprazole (Nexium) as this
completely removes all acid in your stomach, and that means that the NSAID's can't really
give you an ulcer then, if you take them in excess, and they use this for people who do
take lot's of nsaids for whatever reason. Regarding opiate withdrawal symptoms, the best
drugs imho are clonidine and meloxicam, before i was on these drugs i was in absolute agony
all over my body, my muscles ached so badly and my joints i felt like going to the emergency.
The next day i was put on meloxicam, and since then i take one a day, it's a miracle drug
for aches and pains, it usually works straight away, but takes a while to really start working,
about a week. It's a COX-2 Inhibitor, COX-2 being an enzyme the body releases when pain
and inflammation are present. So it's basically like ibuprofen only about 36 times stronger.
- Peace out.
T.
I Admit i am too lazy to read all of the posts in this eight-page
thread, but i read a couple on the first page, including your first
post. And from what i gather, you where taking a lot of codeine,
just like me at one point, some days i'd take 40 merysndol tablets,
and my mother, actually knew this, she was so worried and terrified
she rang emergency, i don't actually want to talk about that, thankfully
however my codeine and opiate nightmare is over, for good, but the guilt
that i feel for my parents is tremendous and horrible, but i have benzos for
that now, and they calm my anxiety and let me live happily again thankfully.
I'm glad your liver is okay, it seems the liver can indeed take massive amounts
of paracatemol before any serious damage occurs, regarding ulcers, only NSAID's
will cause them as they irriate the stomach-lining, not paracetamol. Some days i
use to take about 50 ibuprofen codeine tablets, and i don't have an ulcer, thankfully,
as i was tested for one recently. Here's a tip though, for anyone who does abuse codene
containing ibuprofen tablets, try and get a prescription for Esomeprazole (Nexium) as this
completely removes all acid in your stomach, and that means that the NSAID's can't really
give you an ulcer then, if you take them in excess, and they use this for people who do
take lot's of nsaids for whatever reason. Regarding opiate withdrawal symptoms, the best
drugs imho are clonidine and meloxicam, before i was on these drugs i was in absolute agony
all over my body, my muscles ached so badly and my joints i felt like going to the emergency.
The next day i was put on meloxicam, and since then i take one a day, it's a miracle drug
for aches and pains, it usually works straight away, but takes a while to really start working,
about a week. It's a COX-2 Inhibitor, COX-2 being an enzyme the body releases when pain
and inflammation are present. So it's basically like ibuprofen only about 36 times stronger.
- Peace out.
T.
Crankinit
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Just try to limit your methadone dose to whatever covers your pain and keeps you feeling well and don't try and chase a buzz from it, I've seen people go down that path and end up on ridiculous doses, still not catching any more of a buzz than the people on lower doses because their tolerance goes up too.
Methadonia2010
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hey
Hey Stiffeno I on the methadone to, give it time, crud makes u nausated... sweaty constipated ..... blah blah!! if i go to high i get angry too aggitated like. Make me sleppy though all day , ten years now Blehhhhhhhhhh oh well woddya do!!! i get weekly takehomes. Remember theres' no high or low dose, ignore the numbers just the right dose!!! you have to go up and down till you find the right dose that's why they start you low..... Btw I am on 20mg it's my right dose. dont get caught up in the numbers game, oh and i also went on methadone for Pill use!!!
Hey Stiffeno I on the methadone to, give it time, crud makes u nausated... sweaty constipated ..... blah blah!! if i go to high i get angry too aggitated like. Make me sleppy though all day , ten years now Blehhhhhhhhhh oh well woddya do!!! i get weekly takehomes. Remember theres' no high or low dose, ignore the numbers just the right dose!!! you have to go up and down till you find the right dose that's why they start you low..... Btw I am on 20mg it's my right dose.
dont get caught up in the numbers game, oh and i also went on methadone for Pill use!!!
footscrazy
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I also think this is very likely, nausea alone is much more suggestive of too much opioid rather than too little.
Stiffeno said:
Like Mr Blonde said, cold symptoms, runny nose etc are symptoms of withdrawal. Do you normally avoid those symptoms when going through withdrawal? What, exactly, are your withdrawal symptoms? Everyone gets different symptoms, I know personally the first things I notice are a runny nose, gummy throat and sore legs. I remember you talking about pain (not specifically stomach pain) earlier in the thread being a symptom of your withdrawal. If you're not experiencing that now that's a good thing, and prob another indicator what you're experiencing now isn't withdrawal.
I would recommend travacalm if you're going to try an antihistamine, I get severe nausea from even small amounts of opioids, and travacalm is such a help. In fact, it was discovering travacalm that allowed me to start enjoying opiods in the first place, because before that, the nausea was so intense that I disliked using them.
You can buy travacalm off the shelf at most chemists, without having to talk to a pharmacist. I've only been to a small amount of chemists where you have to ask for it, if you do, say you take them for nausea associated with motion sickness (make sure you get the blue pack containing dimenhydrinate too).
The original withdrawal i use to get severe pain in my entire skeleton (back so bad when i took deep breaths it would kill), really queezy in the gut, a watery sensation in the back of my throat like just before your going to vomit, headache and extremely bad toothaches (toothaches so bad im afraid of them)...those were the general things i would get, on top of the cravings and pacing around the house like a caged lion.
@DoctorChemX: As for Benzo's i agree they do help with anxiety and taking the edge off of things, but benzo's in and of themselves are addictive and have a bad withdrawal associated with them, so im trying to stay away from them for the time being.
These days its mainly back pain (thought not as bad as it was) and really really sick in the stomach like im going to vomit constantly. I have noticed when i eat things like Vegemite on sandwiches i get a pain (like its red raw) in my lower left abdomen/stomach...spicy things make it hurt in that one spot so i think it may be an ulcer in that location. Im going to the doctor some time this week and going to see if i can be checked for uclers...i really think i may have at least 1.
As for the Methadone dose, im not trying to chase a high (weather i am in my subconscious or not i really couldnt say). Its just before my dose and a little after i get really sick....the mornings are really bad, i wake up feeling very sick and unable to eat....i cant even just try and sleep it off as it keeps me awake. I do drink milk when i wake up so i have at least some sort of lining on my stomach, which may or may not help (im really not sure =/).
Today while i did wake up sick, it wasnt as bad as the day before...so im hoping i can have further days with diminished sickness!
In a few days im going to give another prescriber a call and see what he says about my situation, if he thinks my current doctor is being unreasonable (i feel like he is but i could be bias because im feeling sick). I dont wish to be on a super high dose of Methadone, but i need my prescriber to be at least flexible enough to consider altering my dose when im feeling very sick (if it is linked to the dose being too little). Peoples needs change from time to time as their tolerance changes over time. My doctor wanted me to stay on 30mg....if i was still on 30mg i think i would be bed ridden, i would not be able to function at that dose (as i found out). Personally im hoping i can be put to 50mg and see if it helps, as from 30-45 felt much more confortable, but with a little bump higher i think i could stabilize on it.
@DoctorChemX: As for Benzo's i agree they do help with anxiety and taking the edge off of things, but benzo's in and of themselves are addictive and have a bad withdrawal associated with them, so im trying to stay away from them for the time being.
These days its mainly back pain (thought not as bad as it was) and really really sick in the stomach like im going to vomit constantly. I have noticed when i eat things like Vegemite on sandwiches i get a pain (like its red raw) in my lower left abdomen/stomach...spicy things make it hurt in that one spot so i think it may be an ulcer in that location. Im going to the doctor some time this week and going to see if i can be checked for uclers...i really think i may have at least 1.
As for the Methadone dose, im not trying to chase a high (weather i am in my subconscious or not i really couldnt say). Its just before my dose and a little after i get really sick....the mornings are really bad, i wake up feeling very sick and unable to eat....i cant even just try and sleep it off as it keeps me awake. I do drink milk when i wake up so i have at least some sort of lining on my stomach, which may or may not help (im really not sure =/).
Today while i did wake up sick, it wasnt as bad as the day before...so im hoping i can have further days with diminished sickness!
In a few days im going to give another prescriber a call and see what he says about my situation, if he thinks my current doctor is being unreasonable (i feel like he is but i could be bias because im feeling sick). I dont wish to be on a super high dose of Methadone, but i need my prescriber to be at least flexible enough to consider altering my dose when im feeling very sick (if it is linked to the dose being too little). Peoples needs change from time to time as their tolerance changes over time. My doctor wanted me to stay on 30mg....if i was still on 30mg i think i would be bed ridden, i would not be able to function at that dose (as i found out). Personally im hoping i can be put to 50mg and see if it helps, as from 30-45 felt much more confortable, but with a little bump higher i think i could stabilize on it.
Woke up today not quite as sick as i normally am, which is good. Already been to have my dose so while im still a little queezy i think i should be able to handle it till the dose kicks in (not like i could just turn off the sickness if i found i couldnt cope anyway lol).
I got to the clinic and they reminded me that ive got an appointment with my 'done doctor on the 15th (i thought my last appointment would have erased this one - Lucky they reminded me O_O). Also they said the 5 words that id been dreading for a month: "We Need A Urine Sample"...now you are probably wondering why would someone who doesnt abuse their dose be scared of a piss test? Well every day when i wake in the morning guess what is the first thing i do once im up? i go and relieve my bladder! You know how hard it is to go to the toilet when someone is watching you through a magic-mirror glass AND when you only just went to the toilet? yeah its hard. I explained to them that i had JUST went at home and it might not be possible to go so soon after, but i can give it a try if i must. They said "Yeah just give it a go, see if you can". When i stand up my lower body seems to tense up so i sat down on the toilet so my muscles would relax (i panic when someone is watching me LOL)...i pushed as hard as i could (probably doing internal damage >.<) but i managed to get the cup over half full.
The rules of my clinic state that a person may refuse the first test, but they must not refuse another test after that. I had used up my "Refusal" on my 1st day when i was asked for a sample but i had went before i left home (as usual), i took the cup and sat their for like 5mins or more (which is a long time when someone is waiting for you) but in the end i couldnt go! So they took that as refusal and i done the test the following day (where i didnt go to the toilet in the morning!). If i wasnt able to go today im not sure what they would have done, perhaps refused to dose me? or make me drink water and wait around till i was able to go?
And THATS why i hate urine tests, coz if i cant go....im scared that they may refuse me service...and its really not my fault, its just very hard to wake up and not go to the toilet when you are busting!
Edit: Well at least now i have a month before im asked again!
I got to the clinic and they reminded me that ive got an appointment with my 'done doctor on the 15th (i thought my last appointment would have erased this one - Lucky they reminded me O_O). Also they said the 5 words that id been dreading for a month: "We Need A Urine Sample"...now you are probably wondering why would someone who doesnt abuse their dose be scared of a piss test? Well every day when i wake in the morning guess what is the first thing i do once im up? i go and relieve my bladder! You know how hard it is to go to the toilet when someone is watching you through a magic-mirror glass AND when you only just went to the toilet? yeah its hard. I explained to them that i had JUST went at home and it might not be possible to go so soon after, but i can give it a try if i must. They said "Yeah just give it a go, see if you can". When i stand up my lower body seems to tense up so i sat down on the toilet so my muscles would relax (i panic when someone is watching me LOL)...i pushed as hard as i could (probably doing internal damage >.<) but i managed to get the cup over half full.
The rules of my clinic state that a person may refuse the first test, but they must not refuse another test after that. I had used up my "Refusal" on my 1st day when i was asked for a sample but i had went before i left home (as usual), i took the cup and sat their for like 5mins or more (which is a long time when someone is waiting for you) but in the end i couldnt go! So they took that as refusal and i done the test the following day (where i didnt go to the toilet in the morning!). If i wasnt able to go today im not sure what they would have done, perhaps refused to dose me? or make me drink water and wait around till i was able to go?
And THATS why i hate urine tests, coz if i cant go....im scared that they may refuse me service...and its really not my fault, its just very hard to wake up and not go to the toilet when you are busting!
Edit: Well at least now i have a month before im asked again!
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