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LSD - Not what I expected?

Ismene, I never said I saw a hallucination, I said I saw something that wasn't there.
I have hallucinated and been unable to distinguish from reality, and I understand the difference between that and the visual disturbances I've experienced on LSD.
Despite this, I have seen things that can not be described in any way, shape or form as actually being in the room with me.
 
Carsick said:
Ismene, I never said I saw a hallucination, I said I saw something that wasn't there.
I have hallucinated and been unable to distinguish from reality, and I understand the difference between that and the visual disturbances I've experienced on LSD.
Despite this, I have seen things that can not be described in any way, shape or form as actually being in the room with me.
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I don't think many people have have hallucinations that were unable to distuingish from reality either carsick - perhaps you're in the minority.

I agree you can see geometric patterns and swirly effects in the walls and stuff but I think it's an incredibly small minority of people who see can animate objects in front of them that arn't there.
 
Ismene said:
I think that's got more to do with you than the LSD. If you really want to believe you can see things you don't need LSD to do it - you can talk to drunks every night who swear they can see things that arn't there. Some people can convince themselves of anything.

Incidentally was this hair belonging to someone who was actually in the room with you? Or did hair just appear in front of you in an empty room and start platting itself?

You misunderstood what I was saying about the painting too, I was saying that, as Benny Shannon points out on his book on ayahuasca, the world can take on a painting-like appearance when you are on psychedelics - that's a long way away from seeing pink elephants.
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The girl was three feet away from me, in the next row in a concert hall. Do you really think LSD isn't a hallucinogin? You have a surprise waiting for you. How about looking in a mirror and seeing yourself age by 1000 years, right down to a dessicated skull. Does that qualify as a hallucination?

And leave it out with the "pink elephants", nobody suggested that except you. High dose LSD is totally immersive, hallucinations pop out of everything you look at, micro to macro scale. The hallucinations are also unstoppable, so you have to go with the flow. "Painting-like", you have no idea.
 
mindsurfer said:
The girl was three feet away from me, in the next row in a concert hall. .
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Was this at a Dead concert dude? :)

Do you really think LSD isn't a hallucinogin? You have a surprise waiting for you

I don't think, I KNOW it isn't a hallucinogen. Even the people who are saying they see things that arn't there are saying they were aware they were under the influence of a drug at the time. A hallucination is something you believe is real.

The DEA and Nixon classified it as a hallucinogen because that's the easiest way of demonising it.

And leave it out with the "pink elephants", nobody suggested that except you

The pink elephants is representative of seeing something that isn't there. Don't get too worked up about it.

High dose LSD is totally immersive, hallucinations pop out of everything you look at, micro to macro scale.

For you maybe. Not for most people. Terence Mckenna for example said he found LSD to be incredibly difficult to hallucinate on.

Were you the kind of kid who could see imaginary friends too? Maybe there's a link there.
 
samadhi_smiles said:
scenes of futuristic cities, landscapes with alien plants, disembodied parts of creatures/humans, letters and words, musical notes, alien-like entities, 3d jewels and diamonds (that are possible to be manipulated with your hands and mind), and on and on...your imagination is the limit

Very much is possible in the psychedelic experience.
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I fixed my own passage and quoted it.
 
Ismene said:
Was this at a Dead concert dude? :)

Do you really think LSD isn't a hallucinogin? You have a surprise waiting for you

I don't think, I KNOW it isn't a hallucinogen. Even the people who are saying they see things that arn't there are saying they were aware they were under the influence of a drug at the time. A hallucination is something you believe is real.

The DEA and Nixon classified it as a hallucinogen because that's the easiest way of demonising it.

And leave it out with the "pink elephants", nobody suggested that except you

The pink elephants is representative of seeing something that isn't there. Don't get too worked up about it.

High dose LSD is totally immersive, hallucinations pop out of everything you look at, micro to macro scale.

For you maybe. Not for most people. Terence Mckenna for example said he found LSD to be incredibly difficult to hallucinate on.

Were you the kind of kid who could see imaginary friends too? Maybe there's a link there.
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I kinda get the feeling you're just a hater who hasn't taken good L yet.
 
Ismene said:
On one occaison at least, the drug caused a hallucination that wasn't there.

That's not quite what a hallucination means tho psyco, a hallucination is something you can't distuinguish from reality - ie, you believe there is a giant set of teeth floating in the air above you as much as the chair you are sitting on. That's not what happened right? You were always 100% aware that this was just your mind wandering under the effects of a drug?

If psychedelics did that to me I don't think I'd be interested in taking them. That's why I've always avoided deleriants.
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You're just arguing for the sake of arguing... stop doing that! When I said I've seen rows of teeth opening and closing as an example of a visual from tryptamines, I never suggested I believed they were really there. I don't think anyone ever suggested that in this entire thread, except Carsick. You're the only one who suggested that, just now in this post. Figure out what it is you're trying to argue, and then argue it. There's no need to decide to argue first, and then later on in the argument define what it is you're arguing about.

Additionally, at very high, totally immersive doses of tryptamines, I have certainly experienced things which I thought were really there, such as entities approaching and interacting with me. Just because you haven't doesn't mean no one has. What is with your obsession with trying to force your own opinions on everyone anyway? Just accept that different people have different experiences and move on, and stop cluttering up every thread with back-and-forth nitpicking arguments.

We get it. Psychedelics are different from deleriants. No one is trying to say they're not. But it's possible to achieve different kinds of effects than the kinds you've achieved.

Ismene said:
The pink elephants is representative of seeing something that isn't there. Don't get too worked up about it
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No, the pink elephants thing is you trying to use an example to make anyone who disagrees with you feel like a stereotypical idiotic middle schooler, and you know it.
 
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Ismene said:
On one occaison at least, the drug caused a hallucination that wasn't there.

That's not quite what a hallucination means tho psyco, a hallucination is something you can't distuinguish from reality - ie, you believe there is a giant set of teeth floating in the air above you as much as the chair you are sitting on. That's not what happened right? You were always 100% aware that this was just your mind wandering under the effects of a drug?

If psychedelics did that to me I don't think I'd be interested in taking them. That's why I've always avoided deleriants.
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http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hallucination

Read the definitions, it says no where that its something you can't distinguish from reality.

http://www.healthatoz.com/healthato...tURI=/healthatoz/Atoz/ency/hallucinations.jsp

This is from a medical site and it also doesn't say it has to be something you can't distinguish from reality, it just says
"Hallucinations are false or distorted sensory experiences that appear to be real perceptions. These sensory impressions are generated by the mind rather than by any external stimuli, and may be seen, heard, felt, and even smelled or tasted."

Honestly I think you are trying so hard to discount many peoples experiences just to make you right, but I'm sorry, everyone reacts differently to individual drugs. I've received quite interesting hallucinations from LSD even towards the lower end of the spectrum probably around 100 micrograms. Basically I would see something out of an alex grey picture, eyes stacked up on each other with faces and wings protruding out, and all of this was out in the middle of the air not on a wall or tile.
 
Xorkoth said:
You're just arguing for the sake of arguing... stop doing that! When I said I've seen rows of teeth opening and closing as an example of a visual from tryptamines, I never suggested I believed they were really there. I don't think anyone ever suggested that in this entire thread, except Carsick. You're the only one who suggested that, just now in this post. Figure out what it is you're trying to argue, and then argue it. There's no need to decide to argue first, and then later on in the argument define what it is you're arguing about.

Additionally, at very high, totally immersive doses of tryptamines, I have certainly experienced things which I thought were really there, such as entities approaching and interacting with me. Just because you haven't doesn't mean no one has. What is with your obsession with trying to force your own opinions on everyone anyway? Just accept that different people have different experiences and move on, and stop cluttering up every thread with back-and-forth nitpicking arguments.

We get it. Psychedelics are different from deleriants. No one is trying to say they're not. But it's possible to achieve different kinds of effects than the kinds you've achieved.



No, the pink elephants thing is you trying to use an example to make anyone who disagrees with you feel like a stereotypical idiotic middle schooler, and you know it.
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Thank you!
 
i've seen this debate occur many times on the shroomery and it always ends up with those contending that psychedelics can do more than just distort your normal vision winning. people on the shroomery reported experiences of seeing things such as trees blasting off into space and interacting with alien entities, which at the time, they believed were totally real. this definitely fits under the common and dictionary definition of hallucination. no one has claimed that mushrooms do the same thing as datura but it seems rather silly to me to claim that it's not possible to hallucinate off mushrooms.
 
Don't see things that aren't there, eh? So I take it my carpet and patterns moving, tracers and clouds flying past the sky at an immense speed must be there then and I just don't notice it sober? 8)
 
The dose is just low; most tabs today are in the 20-80 microgram range (in the US anyway, and according to DEA statistics), and a dose strong enough to cause visuals is more in the 80-120 microgram area, and true hallucinations/a full disconnection from reality don't happen until 500 micrograms or so.
 
When I look for them or try to see them there never there

When i forget about it and just go with it before you know I have symbols poping out of walls and infinate voids of reality opening in front of me


Dont worry anything youve ever been told wont be anything like the trip itself

Words cannot describe the LSD experience
 
LSD doesn't produce true hallucinations. The things you see will be related to your state of mind, if you are euphoric the visuals you get tend to be comforting. If you are dysphoric or begin to experience fear your visuals may become more menacing. LSD only alters your natural perceptions, things warp, breathe, bend, colors and halo's appear sometimes out of no where or around objects. Sometimes your vision can feel blurry, at other times things appear crystal clear. On a nice day nature will be very comforting, a sense of connection with things normally occurs in people first tripping :)

The visuals you get depend on how much you focus on "zoning out" on your thoughts and getting lost in yourself or the music you're listening to. I find you can guide an LSD trip more easily and dependably then say mushrooms for example.

You won't see anything that isnt there though, you will just see the world in a different way.

The effect is somewhat like looking through a microscope. Suddenly when you look threw a microscope you discover that there is an invisible world around you that you hadn't known about. The same is true about the psychedelic drug.
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-Timothy Leary.
 
I don't think, I KNOW it isn't a hallucinogen
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I'd wager this is one of the most moronic statements i've read on BL, you obviously either don't have much experience with LSD or you dont know what a hallucinogen is.

I kinda get the feeling you're just a hater who hasn't taken good L yet.
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most definitely.
 
psycosynthesis said:
^Wikipedia isn't exactly a credible source of information mate. Just putting that out there.
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I tend to think, especially with broad facts like this one "LSD is a hallucinogen", the general consensus of the billions of people with internet is correct. If the opinion of the majority of the planet is wrong, who the **** is right? And there's a reason why the facts in Wikipedia are externally referenced as well...
 
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