psilocybonaut
Bluelighter
Supposedly peppermint oil contains acetaldehyde, which does the conversion.
☛ Official ☚ [LSA's Subthread] Extraction of LSA's
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i was mistaken in my previous post, LSA is an amide (doh!), not a primary amine.
hmmmmm, perhaps. if it would contain acetaldehyde (this, by the way, is the stuff that causes some of the problems in an alcohol hangover) i don't think you can react it with an amide, as these are not very basic.
let's just say i find this very hard to believe. but, hey, if it works, that's nice...
hmmmmm, perhaps. if it would contain acetaldehyde (this, by the way, is the stuff that causes some of the problems in an alcohol hangover) i don't think you can react it with an amide, as these are not very basic.
let's just say i find this very hard to believe. but, hey, if it works, that's nice...
Well to answer one of your simpler questions, LSH's are more of a mindfuckery tripp than an actual 'high'. I haven't checked the link, but the hangover statement makes sense, since it is common that people convert it to LSH by adding it to wine instead of adding peppermint oil.
Now that I think about it, the hangover of the LSA [which I believe is, at some point, converted in your brain during the tripp to LSH] was identical to a tenfold hangover about 11 hours after ingestion of the seeds.
structural entropy
Bluelighter
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Why do you believe LSA is converted to LSH in the brain? Do you have any scientific data to back it up? If not, then it doesn't really make much sense. The 'hangover' could be from LSA alone and not some weird conversion process which you are only speculating on.
yucatanboy2
Bluelighter
I totally don't buy any of this LSH stuff. Sorry. I don't think amides add across aldehyde CO double bonds, they're just not that nucleophilic. Sucks that someone made a wikipedia page on it.
Does anyone have a link to an actual Journal article about this stuff? If nobody can produce actual legitimate research/knowledge on this stuff I think we should try to stop the spread of misinformation about it.
Does anyone have a link to an actual Journal article about this stuff? If nobody can produce actual legitimate research/knowledge on this stuff I think we should try to stop the spread of misinformation about it.
i cannot find any evidence (by quick google-ing) that peppermint oil contains 'naked' acetaldehyde, only some acetates of alcohols.
second, if there is really some magic conversion of LSA to LSH by reaction with acetaldehyde, you would not get an alcohol-like hangover from the acetaldehyde incorporated into the LSH, as it is no longer acetaldehyde. Nor would you feel sick from whatever traces left over from the peppermint oil, it takes more than a few drops to create hangover-like symptoms.
the comment about adding wine makes no sense at all, there's no way you're going to get the nitrogen to attack the methylene carbon in ethanol to get (after loss of a hydride ?!) the desired LSH. wine does not contain acetaldehyde in appreciable quantities (about 30 mg /L, thats 0.003% )
this is all very suspicious
second, if there is really some magic conversion of LSA to LSH by reaction with acetaldehyde, you would not get an alcohol-like hangover from the acetaldehyde incorporated into the LSH, as it is no longer acetaldehyde. Nor would you feel sick from whatever traces left over from the peppermint oil, it takes more than a few drops to create hangover-like symptoms.
the comment about adding wine makes no sense at all, there's no way you're going to get the nitrogen to attack the methylene carbon in ethanol to get (after loss of a hydride ?!) the desired LSH. wine does not contain acetaldehyde in appreciable quantities (about 30 mg /L, thats 0.003% )
this is all very suspicious
CatfishRivers
Bluelight Crew
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My guess is that peppermint's vasodialation properties just improve the quality of the trip by counteracting the seed's vasoconstriction properties.
alantis360
Bluelighter
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i have eeaten mgs before and one time when i put like 5 peppermint drops under my tounge an dosed like 25 grams i had visuals like an 8th of mushrooms no lie.
yucatanboy2
Bluelighter
^ Did you try the same amount from the same batch without the peppermint oil and compared the effects?
Catfishrivers, that is definitely a possibility, and may be why people are expressing that its a good combination in terms of effects and lower side effects.
Catfishrivers, that is definitely a possibility, and may be why people are expressing that its a good combination in terms of effects and lower side effects.
could you tell how much lsa a given amount of Ipomoea tricolor contains in comparison to the the same amount of grams of hbwr then?I have always blocked out any ideas that involve exposing morning glory seeds [PLEASE spare me the time of telling me how much better HBWR is. It is 3x the price for the same amount of LSA, so I am closed-minded].
However, a friend of mine wiped a smirk off of my face when he extracted 1400 MG seeds in a well lit room all day, butane blasted it 4 times, and dropped 6 drops of peppermint oil. This basically means that the past year of my life is a lie. :D
This got me thinking about maybe lowering the cost of my tripps by using what is freely available to me. So my questions are:
Will soaking peppermint leaves in a concentrated MG extract convert the LSA's to LSH's? Also, I once heard that the shelf life of LSH is much shorter. Is this true?
[I believe the brain eventually converts the LSA's to LSH's, and learned the hard way at church when I thought the tripp was wearing off... thats a good, long story]
pharmakos
Bluelighter
this has been covered in soooo many other threads....
some wines have up to 500mg/L of acetaldehyde (http://waterhouse.ucdavis.edu/winecomp/acetaldehyde.htm). considering you only need to react with at most 10mgs of lysergamides (which, if memory serves, would be a LOT), i'd say that even a concentration of 30mg/L would be sufficient (assuming the reaction even works, which i think it does).
remember, chemical reactions happen on a mole:mole basis, not mg:mg basis. i'm too lazy to do the math, but lysergamides are so much bigger than acetaldehyde that the mass of acetaldehyde needed for a balanced equation would be an order of magnitude or two smaller than the mass of LSA.
even the brains over at blacklight have not been able to come to a consensus on whether or not the conversion is possible.
seems to me that a lot of the people calling bunk on this actually have not tried for themselves. i've done quite a few experiments using the same batch of seeds (never blind experiments though...), and in my experience, yes, using red wine does produce a different trip than the seeds on their own.
however, the placebo effect is strong, and i do concede that i may be wrong.
some wines have up to 500mg/L of acetaldehyde (http://waterhouse.ucdavis.edu/winecomp/acetaldehyde.htm). considering you only need to react with at most 10mgs of lysergamides (which, if memory serves, would be a LOT), i'd say that even a concentration of 30mg/L would be sufficient (assuming the reaction even works, which i think it does).
remember, chemical reactions happen on a mole:mole basis, not mg:mg basis. i'm too lazy to do the math, but lysergamides are so much bigger than acetaldehyde that the mass of acetaldehyde needed for a balanced equation would be an order of magnitude or two smaller than the mass of LSA.
even the brains over at blacklight have not been able to come to a consensus on whether or not the conversion is possible.
seems to me that a lot of the people calling bunk on this actually have not tried for themselves. i've done quite a few experiments using the same batch of seeds (never blind experiments though...), and in my experience, yes, using red wine does produce a different trip than the seeds on their own.
however, the placebo effect is strong, and i do concede that i may be wrong.
suprisingly treating ipomoea (LSA) extracts with pure acetaldehyde in anhydrous methanol does change the alkaloid composition though it is far from certain it makes LSH, instead it seems more likely it is converting isoergine compounds to the normal compounds. TLC tests clearly show the change. However before anyone gets too excited the same experiment using acetaldehyde in aqueous methanol caused No change.
against the peppermint LSH theory is the fact that commercial peppermint oil contains fuck all free acetaldehyde. Acetaldhyde is extremely volatile it is usually cooled to below zero before handling and is not going to stay around in peppermint oil stored at room temperature. Peppermint oil is usually produced by steam distillation, acetaldehyde is water soluble and so ends up in the water not in the oil. freshly squeezed orange juice contains much more acetaldehyde, and the final nail in the coffin is that the reaction does not occur in the presence of water.
against the peppermint LSH theory is the fact that commercial peppermint oil contains fuck all free acetaldehyde. Acetaldhyde is extremely volatile it is usually cooled to below zero before handling and is not going to stay around in peppermint oil stored at room temperature. Peppermint oil is usually produced by steam distillation, acetaldehyde is water soluble and so ends up in the water not in the oil. freshly squeezed orange juice contains much more acetaldehyde, and the final nail in the coffin is that the reaction does not occur in the presence of water.
greenmeanies
Bluelighter
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regardless of whether or not it is possible to create LSH from LSA (thank you for thoroughly debunking that one!)
peppermint oil / peppermint tea DOES conclusively produce non-placebo effects, including anti-nausea and vasodilation which are both positive additions to the side-effects that LSA and related ergines are known to produce.
menthol is a great plant-derived medicinal ally, and it goes very well in combination with morning glory. in most temperate climates peppermint grows prolifically, especially in very moist soils. if you decide to grow it at home, be sure to put it in a container where you can visually inspect and prevent runners from escaping the pot, as it can be a serious invasive weed.
peppermint oil / peppermint tea DOES conclusively produce non-placebo effects, including anti-nausea and vasodilation which are both positive additions to the side-effects that LSA and related ergines are known to produce.
menthol is a great plant-derived medicinal ally, and it goes very well in combination with morning glory. in most temperate climates peppermint grows prolifically, especially in very moist soils. if you decide to grow it at home, be sure to put it in a container where you can visually inspect and prevent runners from escaping the pot, as it can be a serious invasive weed.
pharmakos
Bluelighter
why was the experiment performed with methanol instead of ethanol? could that make a difference?
anhyhrous ethanol is tricky to get for maortals, the alcohol will make no difference.
True, but with all respect, that is why I asked about using peppermint leaves, not peppermint oil. I live on 40 acres and I recently extracted the oil from ~3 ounces using iso alcohol [not for ingestion, but merely as a test before I waste any everyclear]
I think I will merely make peppermint tea and use it to CWE 800 MG seeds.
pharmakos
Bluelighter
remember to use distilled water. tap water has lysergamide destroying chlorine in it.
polarbearsarecool
Bluelighter
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also dont extract in a completely lit room, try a really dim dark room otherwise you are wasting
Speaking of that, I've done HBWR seeds twice, I ordered 25 seeds and right after I got them I ground up ten, dumped it in a cup of orange juice and drank it. It started hitting me about an hour and 15 minutes later and I had no upset stomach or anything. I wound up having a really good, enjoyable trip.
The second time me and a friend ground up the remaining 15 and split it, drinking it with some energy drink. I can't really say much good about it this time. We had both eaten 10g of kratom an hour before the seeds and that usually makes me naseauted for a while. About 20 minutes after eating the seeds my friend threw up followed by me about 20 minutes after that. I could feel the trip slightly but mostly just felt like crap until I fell asleep.
With MG and HBWR do they lose potentcy over time, it was about a month later that we finished them. Think I'm done with kratom also.
Benjagan91
Greenlighter
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LSA extraction info please?
Hi all,
This is my first post here, so hello from Australia!
A couple of weeks back i tried LSD, and i had the time of my life... only issue is, it's not that easy to get where i am, nor can i afford to buy much.
I've read about LSA in morning glory seeds... some people say it's amazing, some people say it's shit... i'd like to make up my own mind
I understand it's a good idea to wash the seeds before beginning the extraction process, due to pesticides and whatever.
I plan to do whatever filtering i do with a coffee filterer & filter paper, and i plan to use a coffee grinder on the washed seeds.
I have a few questions before i proceed in buying the things i need to begin:
1. Can somebody please tell me which seeds are best in regards to potency, and a list of their potencies from most to least?
2. I've read a few different extraction processes. I don't want to be using petrol and crazy shit, can i just wash the seeds well and use an extraction process which includes water and say, vodka for the ethanol stage? Please provide me with an extraction process
3. How much do the seeds cost, in what quantity can you buy them, and where should i look... a nursery?
4. Is it best to consume the LSA as a solution in liquid, or the dehydrated power/paste/whatever?
Thanks a lot for your time Sorry if I've accidentally posted this in the wrong sub-forum.
Regards, Ben
Hi all,
This is my first post here, so hello from Australia!
A couple of weeks back i tried LSD, and i had the time of my life... only issue is, it's not that easy to get where i am, nor can i afford to buy much.
I've read about LSA in morning glory seeds... some people say it's amazing, some people say it's shit... i'd like to make up my own mind
I understand it's a good idea to wash the seeds before beginning the extraction process, due to pesticides and whatever.
I plan to do whatever filtering i do with a coffee filterer & filter paper, and i plan to use a coffee grinder on the washed seeds.
I have a few questions before i proceed in buying the things i need to begin:
1. Can somebody please tell me which seeds are best in regards to potency, and a list of their potencies from most to least?
2. I've read a few different extraction processes. I don't want to be using petrol and crazy shit, can i just wash the seeds well and use an extraction process which includes water and say, vodka for the ethanol stage? Please provide me with an extraction process
3. How much do the seeds cost, in what quantity can you buy them, and where should i look... a nursery?
4. Is it best to consume the LSA as a solution in liquid, or the dehydrated power/paste/whatever?
Thanks a lot for your time
Sorry if I've accidentally posted this in the wrong sub-forum.Regards, Ben