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lets help the government

burn out said:
...now i totally understand the concept of treating the symptoms being more profitable, but if the competition can offer something better, like a cure, then you're not going to make a profit only treating the symptoms when your competitors are offering up a cure.

i know more money goes toward researching treatments than cures because it's more profitable, but i don't go as far as to assert that it's impossible to make a profit with cures as illustrated by antibiotics.
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Well I'm glad you brought this up because:

1. It presents a good model for the ibogaine-methadone argument, and

2. I have a personal and spiritual connection to ibogaine, which I try not to let color my objectivity.

If we look at the methadone model, we are of course treating the symptoms only--that's why it's called methadone maintenance therapy (MMT). The addict returns every day or week to obtain a substitute for the drug (usually heroin or prescription opioids like oxy- or hydo-codone) that originally deregulated the agnostic receptors particular to that drug. This often goes on for years--decades even. MMT targets the symptoms only--no attempt is made to return the brain receptors to their pre-addiction states. Big Pharmacy is contracted to supply the maintenance material which is usually paid for with public funds.

I don't really know how much revenue MMT generates. I have a feeling that, with a larger baby-boomer population reaching middle-age already addicted to prescription opioids, MMT is becoming icing on the cake.

Now let's look at ibogaine therapy (IT). IT treats an addict's real issues: brain receptors. After an effective IT session, the deregulated receptors are returned to their pre-addiction states. The addict walks out of a facility returned to normal from a neurobiochemical perspective. He may need another session three or six or nine months down the road, but in essence, the real component of his addiction has been treated. No keeping him on dope forever, no putting him in NA meetings to tell him he's a helpless addict.

The addict is not helpless, and is back in control of his life. IT also works for stimulant addictions, for which no effective maintenance therapy has been found. It seems that all the effective stimulant maintenance therapies get the addict as high as coke or meth (as an aside, my wife got the surprise of her life when, based on my cocaine addiction, she dragged me into Family Court expecting to get sole legal custody of our son. I tested clean--because I am clean, and have been for going on 6 months).

So, if we look at IT as the competitor, given its effectiveness and potential, in a capitalist world it should be able to kick the shit out of MMT and other conventional therapies, right?

There's only one problemo, hombre. It's illegal.

The same economic model that allows market competition also allows lobbyism. The lobbyists for Big Pharmacy are very effective at taking Joe Politcian out for lunch and telling him that IT is DEADLY. That may be true, but what they don't tell Joe is that the death rate is about 11 out of 3,500 treatments conducted in the Western world.

The death rate is possibly higher in addicts on MMT, but that doesn't matter because by the time the lobbyists have bought Joe his third Martini, they have also told him that ibogaine causes HALLUCINATIONS. Now Joe is really scared, because Amerikans aren't supposed to have hallucinations--which might interfere with their ILLUSIONS of mom, baseball, and the notion that they are actually a free society.

So Joe goes back to Washingtoon and votes against any legislation that moves to deschedule ibogaine or allocates funds to research it. He also makes sure that Bob and Jim Politician know that if this ibogaine thing ever gets a foothold on Amerikan society, it will be the end of democracy in the "Free" World.

The DEA also does their Big Pharmacy brown-nosing by putting up disinformation on their website, as we have seen in a previous post. So when Mom and Dad Amerikan go to this site, they see this scary plant that grows in AFRIKA, and is used by descendants of PYGMIES with PAINTED FACES for their SCARY RITUALS. And subjecting their children--Bill and Susie Amerikan--to such a substance in order to get them off their Beverly Hills addictions is unthinkable.

So the capitalist model is more complex than a simple competitive market. There's a lot of bullshit to contend with as well. Ignorance, stupidity, and greed--things Amerika has a world market share of. :\

What, me worry? Not while I'm on MMT...
 
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Our culture only works becuase 'they' have the food under lock and key.

We grease the cogs of the machine by presupposing the current process based systems.

Imagine new possibilties, engineer new culture, create art and step sideways, people.
 
^Thats it; we can't fight fire with fire. Writing letters is good; but people like Ken Kesey had a better idea IMO; that is, freak society out- or simply be somewhat unconventional and try to inspire people from below. The problem with letters is that people have paper shredders....

The best way to try and start a new society is to stop the incessant acitivity of this one.
 
yeah, writing letters inst the best thing, ive come to find out, i think the only way that any change can occur besides your approach, which i admire and will also atempt, would be a documentary on the subject that hits theaters accross the nation. it would have to be packaged in a way that it seems like its addressing the drug problem and then have a propor understanding of things given throuout the film, that documentary accompanied by other public acts and movements could get a wave going that eventualy has enough momentum to change legal documents...
 
Sorry to drop in like this...

A couple points, the government, originally was set up as a checks and balances, not as a body of power controlling other parts of society. Stemming on this idea, why the hell would I want a defunct, deflated, and incompetent group of "politicians" controlling the "purpose" of such magic medicine. Why would I feel confident in Doctors "prescribing" such substances when just a couple months ago a Doctor almost poisoned my fiance with Seroquel when he takes other medications that work on the same enzyme in the liver, or that his doctor tried dropping his Temazepam 30 mgs, not knowing that he could have a severe psychotic episode and BWS. I have little confidence in the capabilities of my governing bodies.

Just look at the DMV, would you really want to stand in line with a bunch of pissed off disgruntled employees only to take a dumbass test about psychoactives. The only reason Alcohol is legal is because prohibition doesnt work, the only way to convince politicians/reps etc. is by dollars. Expenditures make people motivated, this is a great time to actually pursue such a case, because the economy in my folks eyes is shit, and if state/federal expenditures out weighs the benefits/cash flow, there is your Achilles heal.

I think it is a pile of crock seeing these anti-drug commercials, I cant believe our tax dollars go towards such baloney. If the parents would stop being lazy ass "the government needs to teach my kids how to better society" then the world would be a better place. We need to stop looking at the government to solve our problems because I am convinced they do not give 2 cents to yours, mine, or all of our health and happiness.

Though, one last point I'd like to make is, if the restrictions on research and study could be lifted on scheduled drugs, I would be happy. Science, may not be perfect but thousands of years of Shaman's teachings should mean something profound. Ignorance is bliss, and in our society ignorance give riches to the government.


xox
 
IGNVS-

As this is your thread, i'l ask you first. Hopefully spurring more thought..

One more time, what is your outcome?

Once all is perfectly said and done.. how does this turn out? How precisley will it look, sound, feel and taste when the goal is accomplished? How will we know..? Lets develop an 'outcome procedure'!! A longer term vision, so the cookies know which way to crumble.

To clarify the vision is a great place to start. In fact, much of the work is already done when we can direct out attentions toward a shared replacement of the current culture.

Just quietly, capitalism sucks. Its the cellular powerhouse of the city/virus trhat is slowly eating our planet- imo
 
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bjm your the coolest new bluelighter just to let you know. i like the way you think, and thanks for giving me the opertunity to outline my vision here.


end result is going to be mass awareness, or as massively as possible* to the point where congressmen will be willing to change legeslature and have enough public support for it to be passed into new laws.

if it is imposible to do, then a change in public oppinion (or education) so people would think prohibition is rediculous and let people do drugs openly instead of being ignorant pricks and reporting you to authorities at the slightest suspision.
 
IGNVS I have some issues with your proposed idea and I hope you will be able to address it after reading my above post. Thanks man. xox

Main point for you to review is, what makes you think that the government is qualified enough to "make" people learn about drugs when they already do a shitty job trying to keep people from taking them.
 
i dont
im saying we can educate eachother... i know that came off a little wrong there, i understand what your saying.

the past few days have realy changed my perspective on government, and basicaly your post is right along my lines of thinking.

i just keep saying, how the fuck do these people think they have the right to do that to other people... its rediculous and anti patriotic, when you look at what america was all about it its youth. america is a contradiction.

and still, im asking has anyone here seen the movie network, its related to all of this in concept. if you havnt go see it its amazing.



i think i figured it out. if we are actualy right in what we are doing-- if it is actualy a just thing, that drugs should be legal, then what do we have to fear in the face of reality so long as none of us have fear in us.

by this i mean, we ask america the question, should all of these people go to jail, right now. do you want everyone that is doing illigal drugs imprizoned, finned, fucked in the ass, what?

how do we do this? we get every american citizen who uses illigal drugs to march on DC. that will be the only way that drugs will ever be legalized.
millions of people, so many you couldnt pan the shot from a helicopter in a 2 minute broadcast, and all at the same time ask all the people watching if you want us all in jail.

we would all declare our right to use whatever fucking chemical we choose right then and there, openly, in the middle of the capital.

it would take years of planning, and a shitload of money to fly or buss everyone into the captial, and of course compensation for work etc... but i think with enough motivation and effort, understanding, supprot, morale and righteousness that it is a very real posibility that justice could prevail here. we would need a vast network of people that would be willing to carpool, provide transportation of all types, and get the word out.

we are the pansy generation so its going to be hard to get everyone off their ass, and even harder to snowball enough attention so that fear is driven out of these individuals to be able to get something like this acheived, but i think it can be done. and it needs to start somewhere. the only thing stoping us now is thinking that it cant be done-- and that my freinds, is our own fault.

edit: are there any winding vines around the neck of that plan?
 
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Thanks IGNVS. Im blushing.
So the 'outcome procdure' (including the s.m.a.r.t goal formula) might be something along the lines of:

"It is now the 30th June 2009.. we have won! Freedom reigns supreme as new liegislation has just been passed that allows us to 'take the power back'. For the past several months, a worldwide epidemic of personal freedom has reached a critical mass- scouring the globe, and in its wake we're are left with the right to take whatever we want into our bodies..."

-Washington post 7/30/09. lol.

Thats the kind of stuff I weave. So that as others may read this, they may begin to notice just how naturally their disenfranchised fear can start to turn into action plans for changing the world around us. We are the world around us, so we better grow a new skillset beyond re-affirming the helplessness of our own creations.
Really, we're dealing with larger abstracts concerning freedom, culture and global economy. Within it plays, 'education', 'awareness' and 'communication'.
For me, these are the key concepts and 'magick' in all its forms is the technology that I choose to effect my desired change. In particular, the magick of words and the yoga of language.

Furthermore, the mushies recently whispered to me a way to 'engineer' a specific strain.. and to impregnate it with an astral reality that is dedicated to solely to one particular purpose. Well.. I dont really know how to grow it (although imsure others do), but I can help to 'build' it, if you know what I mean. In the sense that a hallucingenic trip is real, iv been blessed with the experience in how to help 'create' these places.
Id been trippin a lot with Subaeruginosa (nasty ass potent woodlovers) and had a gut full of the head f*ck, nonsense and confusion. I stood toe to toe with an alien entity, and we fought it out for 10 or so hours. After it was done, we shook hands and not only had I been changed forever, but I had chaged 'the mushroom' forever also.
It was my largest spiritual/magikcal sucess to date and upon re-entering the waking, day-to-day consciousness I was 'told' to find a way to get a totally new hallucinogen happening.. and to 'brand' it with a trip that is soley created to spur people to contribute to a real and specific action plan for saving the Earth.
Because while the good stuff gives us all kinds of insights into Earth/community/evolution, I find it rare that people can ground it and integrate this into a new way of behaving and thinking in their world.

Mushrooms and other entheogens seem to have evolved 'organically' along with man and other creatures. They have learnt as much from us, as we have from them. Mushrooms are symbiotic to man, not parasitic.
Im proposing that we continue to bring even more conscious directive to the whole game.

I know my insights aren't isolated, so if anyone else sniffs an sparkle of truth in this one, please put your hand up and take a large and loud step forward.
 
I've always marveled at how similar to human neurotransmitters the molecules contained in some fungi and plants are. And wonder what functions these molecules serve in said fungi and plants.

Maybe they just keep the coyotes away...
 
so i did more reaserch, and emailed a few more agencies





aparently swilow is right its all about the freak
 
tobala said:
^^^^ A very powerful propaganda mechanism is in place that prevents real education about psychedelics.

If you ask anyone who grew up in the 70's what they thought was one of the most memorable TV ads of that era, a lot of them would say:

THIS IS YOUR BRAIN. (shows raw egg)

THIS IS DRUGS. (shows hot frying pan)

crack splatter fry sizzle

THIS IS YOUR BRAIN ON DRUGS. ANY QUESTIONS?

It is this kind of 100% emotional impact/0% intellectual content that appeals to Joe Amerikan and keeps him in a dumbed-down mental vise-grip from which it is nearly impossible to extricate him from.

B9: I was jus' kiddin'...
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I like Penn & Teller's demonstration, where they put the frying pan down, saying it was drugs, and then they had a bunch of eggs saying stuff like "freedom" and "responsibilities" and then bulldozing over them, saying the bulldozer was the US government.
 
Bill Hicks said:
That's an act, that's a frying pan, that's a stove, you're an alcoholic! Dude, I'm tripping right now, and I still see that that's a fucking egg, alright? I see the UFO's around it, but that's a goddamn egg in the middle. There's a hobbit eating it, but goddammit that hobbit's eating a fucking egg! He's on a unicorn. But, no, th-th-th-that's a fucking egg. How dare you have a wino tell me not to do drugs!
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Funny...
 
Pfft I dunno just do as you want - provided you don't set out to harm others.

If yous were a bunch of internationally reconised mental health experts you "might" get a hearing - otherwise don't waste your time.

You would be better off doing something practical for the psychedelic movement IMO ;)

One cannot make the blind see - or can you ;)
 
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