hiphophippy
Bluelighter
As far as I've heard and interpreted it god is so amazing and glorious that we'll all choose to worship him eternally.
I put out my theoretical standpoint based on assumptions gathered from judeo-christian theology.
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P&S Moderators: JackARoe | Cheshire_Kat
I want to go to hell.
- Thread starter hiphophippy
- Start date
I put out my theoretical standpoint based on assumptions gathered from judeo-christian theology.
CoffeeDrinker
Bluelighter
^Funny in what meaning of the word?
hiphophippy
Bluelighter
WTF is fred?
captainballs
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2004
- Messages
- 9,954
hiphophippy
Bluelighter
YellowPolkaDotHalo
Ex-Bluelighter
Its interesting yeah Portillo.
Hiphop.. you must excuse me. Fred is short for Freddy the other poster Ive been chatting to here.
Hiphop.. you must excuse me. Fred is short for Freddy the other poster Ive been chatting to here.
CoffeeDrinker
Bluelighter
Funny in the sense that I'm a Satanist who collects biodegradable plastic?
B9
Bluelight Crew
Is your collection internationally renowned or are you a private collector - personally I find all degradable plastics fascinating
The OP should go to hell then report back.
The OP should go to hell then report back.
B9
Bluelight Crew
YellowPolkaDotHalo
Ex-Bluelighter
You despise your ideas about God?
To be more specific I despise the idea of a personal loving God that is all powerful. I have less problems with the Eastern/Asian ideas about God and spirituality although I still don't agree with them all the way. I do think that religion allows otherwise intelligent and sane people to believe collectively in things that are totally non-intelligent and totally insane.
I posted this on another thread that has been pretty inactive of late so I wanted to move it here. I deleted the problem of evil part by Epicurus as I started another thread about that particular issue already. Anyway here it is.
"I think the idea of a God who takes a personal interest in people lives and cares for them started dying in the 19th century. The 20th century was the century that truly killed it. With things like the Holocaust and Rwanda how can anybody truly believe in a God that is all loving and all powerful?
Have any of you guys heard of Elie Wiesel? He is a Holocaust survivor who wrote a book called Night about his experiences at Auschwitz. There is one part of the book that is particularly heart wrenching to me and has always stuck with me. This 10 year old kid was caught by the SS guards trying to escape. The SS guards decided to hang him in front of the entire camp as an example to the others. The truly horrible part was that the kid was not heavy enough for the rope to break his neck and instantly kill him. Instead the kid strangled for nearly a half hour struggling for breath before he finally gave up and died. During this 30 minutes a man next to Elie asked "Where is God? Why isn't he helping him?" To which Elie responded "God? He is up there dying on the gallows."
And to speak from personal experience. I was raised as a Christian. I went to a private Christian School. One summer when I was 11 my parents decided to take me to China to see the old country. (they were born there I was born and raised in the States) Anyway on our trip we visited the city of Nanking. There was an archeological dig in the middle of the city digging up remains of the victims of the Nanking massacre which took place when the Japanese invaded China during World War II. It was open to the public as it was behind the Chinese equivalent of a Holocaust museum. I walked in not expecting what I saw. Piles of skeletal remains that were taller than I was at the time. I will never forget looking down and seeing a skull that looked smaller than the rest and instantly realizing that it was the skull of a child. I remember looking through one of the eye sockets and seeing a hole in the back of the skull the size of about a quarter. I thought how could God let this happen? How could Jesus let these people die like this? If something like that happened to me or my little brother would God save us? Pretty fucked up thoughts to have when you are only 11.
Needless to say I am a little traumatized from what I saw that day. But I'm glad I saw it. Because I lost my faith that day. I lost faith in something that doesn't deserve faith in the first place. An irrational rationalization of a world in which we are truly alone.
Man has qualities that are immeasurable. These qualities come from us, people, not from some entity off in some far away lah lah land that looks down upon us with indifference. And man has a dark side as well born from evolution, and a world that demanded that we be equal parts cunning and ruthless when the occasion calls for it. But unleashed without limits this dark side could consume us and the world we live in.
Therefore it is mankind's duty and obligation to uphold our own self chosen 'goods'. Of beauty, and truth, and honor. Of life, and love, and liberty and respect for all things. For in the end we are all brothers without a father. Let us all the more for that behave brotherly to each other."
"I think the idea of a God who takes a personal interest in people lives and cares for them started dying in the 19th century. The 20th century was the century that truly killed it. With things like the Holocaust and Rwanda how can anybody truly believe in a God that is all loving and all powerful?
Have any of you guys heard of Elie Wiesel? He is a Holocaust survivor who wrote a book called Night about his experiences at Auschwitz. There is one part of the book that is particularly heart wrenching to me and has always stuck with me. This 10 year old kid was caught by the SS guards trying to escape. The SS guards decided to hang him in front of the entire camp as an example to the others. The truly horrible part was that the kid was not heavy enough for the rope to break his neck and instantly kill him. Instead the kid strangled for nearly a half hour struggling for breath before he finally gave up and died. During this 30 minutes a man next to Elie asked "Where is God? Why isn't he helping him?" To which Elie responded "God? He is up there dying on the gallows."
And to speak from personal experience. I was raised as a Christian. I went to a private Christian School. One summer when I was 11 my parents decided to take me to China to see the old country. (they were born there I was born and raised in the States) Anyway on our trip we visited the city of Nanking. There was an archeological dig in the middle of the city digging up remains of the victims of the Nanking massacre which took place when the Japanese invaded China during World War II. It was open to the public as it was behind the Chinese equivalent of a Holocaust museum. I walked in not expecting what I saw. Piles of skeletal remains that were taller than I was at the time. I will never forget looking down and seeing a skull that looked smaller than the rest and instantly realizing that it was the skull of a child. I remember looking through one of the eye sockets and seeing a hole in the back of the skull the size of about a quarter. I thought how could God let this happen? How could Jesus let these people die like this? If something like that happened to me or my little brother would God save us? Pretty fucked up thoughts to have when you are only 11.
Needless to say I am a little traumatized from what I saw that day. But I'm glad I saw it. Because I lost my faith that day. I lost faith in something that doesn't deserve faith in the first place. An irrational rationalization of a world in which we are truly alone.
Man has qualities that are immeasurable. These qualities come from us, people, not from some entity off in some far away lah lah land that looks down upon us with indifference. And man has a dark side as well born from evolution, and a world that demanded that we be equal parts cunning and ruthless when the occasion calls for it. But unleashed without limits this dark side could consume us and the world we live in.
Therefore it is mankind's duty and obligation to uphold our own self chosen 'goods'. Of beauty, and truth, and honor. Of life, and love, and liberty and respect for all things. For in the end we are all brothers without a father. Let us all the more for that behave brotherly to each other."
^^ Basically I believe that Earth can be hellish enough and heaven a fantasy for those who can't stand the hell that can be everyday life. So I guess it would be fair to say that I don't believe in heaven or hell. Its all bullshit anyway.
YellowPolkaDotHalo
Ex-Bluelighter
the concept of hell is bullshit but life can be hellish.
Does that make sense to you?
Does that make sense to you?
YellowPolkaDotHalo
Ex-Bluelighter
I read it. Yes people are evil. But who are you and Elie Wiesel to say that God wasnt with that lad at that time. And indeed God was hanging from the gallows?
You dont know what the lads experience was nor does Mr Wiesel.
So youre on a drugs forum. Have you ever tried disassociatives? How do we know what that boy experienced?
Is it at all possible that the lad was detached from the whole thing? Just a thought.
You dont know what the lads experience was nor does Mr Wiesel.
So youre on a drugs forum. Have you ever tried disassociatives? How do we know what that boy experienced?
Is it at all possible that the lad was detached from the whole thing? Just a thought.
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I am me and I am saying it. God wasn't there.
If god was there he should have helped. Instead of just watching the suffering he should have ended it or stopped it. If god gave a shit he shouldn't have allowed for anything like the Holocaust to happen. God is dead and we killed him. Let him stay dead and move on.
No I don't know what the lad was going through. But I did choke on fish bones once and almost died so I can imagine that being hung and strangling for 30 minutes before dying is anything but pleasant. And I have at least some idea what Eli Wiesel and other Holocaust survivors have gone through because I have spoken with a few of them. All of them are atheists now btw.
And what are some examples of a disassociatives? And even if the lad was detached from the whole thing doesn't change the fact that he died a horrible death.
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