Tryptamines [DMT Subthread] Plugging (Rectal)

[Ismene]

Not even Shulgin could create a HCL salt of DMT:

In the original synthesis, by Manske, the following description appears. "The hydrochloride could be obtained only as a pale yellow resin which, when dried in a vacuum desiccator over potassium hydroxide, became porous and brittle." I have found no attempts at its synthesis in the literature, and I have personally had no success at all.

 

[Zagenth]

why not just smoke the remnants? is it too hard to smoke the substance?

 

[fizzacyst]

Not even Shulgin could create a HCL salt of DMT:

In the original synthesis, by Manske, the following description appears. "The hydrochloride could be obtained only as a pale yellow resin which, when dried in a vacuum desiccator over potassium hydroxide, became porous and brittle." I have found no attempts at its synthesis in the literature, and I have personally had no success at all.

Sure sounds like he obtained it to me, just that it didn't form nice shiny crystals. I don't doubt that nobody has any DMT.HCl sitting around in a vial for storage or anything, but thats just because that it is no good for handling or storage as a goo when the tartrate or acetate or whatever will crystallize. I don't think you understand the basic concept of what a chemical salt is.

I'm pretty sure it it will dissolve in water, too. Who would stick a ball of "thick as toffee" substance in their rectum? Is it really so hard to dissolve that in a small amount of water and use that?

How did you obtain this when you tried it? I just stirred some warm conc. hcl around in a vial with some old dmt freebase remnants in it and it seems to have dissolved without a problem. I guess it could be the volume of fluid, but I seriously doubt thats it. I guess it doesn't matter either way if neither of is is planning on using it this way. I'd much rather smoke it, and if not that IM it.

 

[Ismene]

I'm pretty sure it it will dissolve in water, too.

Then I don't think you've ever handled DMT HCL salt.

Is it really so hard to dissolve that in a small amount of water and use that?


Yeah it is because as I've said already - it isn't water soluble. It's pretty hard to dissolve something in water when it isn't water soluble. You just get a long stringy bit of resin when you add it to water.

I just stirred some warm conc. hcl around in a vial with some old dmt freebase remnants in it and it seems to have dissolved without a problem.

I have trouble believing that fizzy. If you've honestly created DMT HCL salt then you need to get in touch with Shulgin and tell him how to do it. When anyone I know adds HCL to freebase all they get is the same as Manske and Shulgin got - a sticky yellow resin.

 

[CretiNation]

I've put it in my butt before I just used 10ml distilled h2o and added citric acid and stirred until all the dmt had dissolved then shot it in there at ~100mg. The come-up was smooth but intense and the effects lasted about a solid hour.

 

[fizzacyst]

...
I have trouble believing that fizzy. If you've honestly created DMT HCL salt then you need to get in touch with Shulgin and tell him how to do it. When anyone I know adds HCL to freebase all they get is the same as Manske and Shulgin got - a sticky yellow resin.

hmm... What do you think is in the water then when people use HCl as the acid to extract it from root bark, or do an acid/base workup to clean it? If its not a DMT hydrochloride solution, I'd really like to know. Or what do you think the goo is that results when you evaporate down a solution of DMT and hydrochloric acid?

I'm not trying to be an ass, I'm just curious what you think results when adding said acid to said base? I mean, how can you use hydrochloric acid to do an aqueous extraction of dmt... if dmt hydrochloride is not water soluble?

...from the same page you were quoting:

...
Early human studies involving the injection of solutions of the hydrochloride apparently made by dissolving DMT base in dilute aqueous HCl, and neutralizing this with base to achieve an end pH of appropriate 6.
...

I think using distilled vinegar is easier to deal with, but I've used HCl to extract it from MHRB before, and I'm definitely not the only person to do that either. It will go into solution of hydrochloric acid.

I'll stop arguing with you about since its not going to go anywhere though, its kind of like talking to a wall. I'd not really recommend using it as an acid for a solution to take rectally since its going to burn like a motherfucker if you get an excess of it in there and a lot of people are going use hardware store stuff thats really strong for that kind of thing.

 

[IGNVS]

The hydrochloride could be obtained only as a pale yellow resin which, when dried in a vacuum desiccator over potassium hydroxide, became porous and brittle

means that yes he did get the HCl but it did not crystalize, it was only in that pale yellow resin

heat up your water if its not disolving right away, ive worked with this stuff before and ive got it to disolve. i havnt tried ingesting it though in fear of extra HCl being around, will it evaporate with the water? i supose i could do an expirament and just evaporate some muratic acid and see if anything is left behind but whatever.


why are we all stuck on the HCl anyway? there are pleanty of other acids you can use that WILL give you nice crystals (with some work) like tartaric acid. you guys should check out the nexus, they have a whole thread about it.


oh and just wondering are we all talking about taking it up the ass with an maoi or without. cuz if its without your wasting a fuckload of dmt.

 

[fizzacyst]

I don't know why you'd want the goo to handle, but the excess would evap off. I'd be afraid some extra might be trapped in the thick goo though. I was just saying you could use it to make a solution if you had to. They seem to work better/be easier to handle than trying to take powder/crystals rectally.

I don't think I would want to try this route at all really as it seems wasteful and potentially painful. I think someone was just curious if it was a viable option to take it this way. I guess if you have a lot to waste and nothing else works for you it could be a last resort. If it came on slower that might be worth it to some people I suppose.. it can be really jarring smoked. It does taste really bad and it kind of rough on the lungs.

 

[Ismene]

hmm... What do you think is in the water then when people use HCl as the acid to extract it from root bark, or do an acid/base workup to clean it? If its not a DMT hydrochloride solution, I'd really like to know.

DMT freebase?

Are you honestly telling me you've added Hydrochloric acid to DMT freebase and got anything other than a yellow resin that isn't water soluble?

 

[fizzacyst]

I get a yellowish very sticky resin if allowed to dry out (like an extremely thick syrup), but its water soluble - though I've never gotten anything resembling crystals if thats what you're asking. If I just pour water on it it will sit there unless I stir it or warm it up. I've only done this as an intermediate step in cleaning up an extract, I wouldn't set out to have that be the end product. If I have the freebase by itself and add that to an HCl solution it dissolves readily with stirring (on the warm side, but not hot).

Earlier I tried adding warm 6M HCl to a small amount of old freebase I had in a vial (maybe 20mg, not a lot) to see if that would dissolve. Its kind of old and yellowish/degraded looking (was bright white at one point, but had sat out in the open for a while). I tried with that because I thought maybe thats what you had a problem with, thinking perhaps the degraded stuff didn't dissolve well for some reason, and its trash anyways. It went into solution without much effort.

I knew that wouldn't crystallize before I messed with it and haven't tried to make/crystallize any other salts as I have no use for them, but I know the HCl is water soluble as I've used it in extractions before. It would work for rectal, but I'd want to use a much less concentrated acid if I were going to try that route for some reason.

I've thought about using it for IM injection, but have always had pure citric acid on hand when I tried that and its easier for me to deal with as its a solid and felt safer about it (known purity).

 

[kong]

The only time I used the method above was for a single IM injection using lab synthed dmt. It went into solution completely.

From what I have read regarding folks cleaning up extracts using a second acid/base extraction, not all the original freebase goes into solution. This is good because it means you are separating the impurities from the dmt.

I don't understand what the difference is if it recrystallizes or not. A. you are prepping a shot and it had better be pure anyway. B. You are sticking it up your ass which doesn't have real strong opinions regarding anything but ph.

 

[Xorkoth]

Also DMT does not need an MAOI when taking it rectally, just as it does not when taking it nasally, smoked, IM, or IV. It just needs it when taking it orally to bypass gut MAO.

 

[IGNVS]

^oh shit


whats the dose range? same as smoked?

 

[nanobrain]

ahh, so if an elf that i meet
has a shit-eatin grin
i'll know where he is goin
cause i know where he's been...

 

[swilow]

Also DMT does not need an MAOI when taking it rectally, just as it does not when taking it nasally, smoked, IM, or IV. It just needs it when taking it orally to bypass gut MAO.

All this leads me to wonder what the whole fuss about MAOI's is then, if prolonged DMT effects can be obtained without any need to resort to them....What metabolises DMT in the brain may I ask?

 

[swilow]

ahh, so if an elf that i meet
has a shit-eatin grin
i'll know where he is goin
cause i know where he's been...

For hes been in the rectum
Of strange human folk
Who admistered his Elfness
With a prod and a poke.

 

[Ismene]

Also DMT does not need an MAOI when taking it rectally, just as it does not when taking it nasally, smoked, IM, or IV. It just needs it when taking it orally to bypass gut MAO.

I'm pretty sure the liver has MAO and anything ingested through the anus will bypass the liver.

 

[capital]

Don't do this. It sucks hard core.
Yeah, I tried it. Didn't work out too well. I tried it with 5 ground anadenanthera seeds. The feeling was similar to the experiences I'd had with smoking them- that mental cloudiness. I didn't trip or see anything, but I did break out in a cold sweat, and I started shivering. I had intense nausea, almost threw up, and then I sat on the toilet for about an hour and a half. Luckily no bloody stool, though.

Please don't do this. There are much better ways to overflow your toilet with diarrhea!

 

[swilow]

Anandananthera seeds don't contain just nnDMT- also bufotenine and I believe some 5-Meo-DMT in higher concentrations. You won't get a DMT style flash from anandananthera spp.

 

[capital]

Know you tell me!