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Tryptamines [DMT Subthread] Plugging (Rectal)

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georgiapoppy

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May 24, 2004
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Rectal Absorption of DMT - HCl or Freebase?

Since DPT is active rectally (although it seems slightly less potent than insufflated), SWIM is really interested in the absorption capabilities of DMT via the same route. He prefers not to play with MAO inhibitors. ;) Anybody have any personal experiences with plugging DMT?

The DPT used rectally in the past was the HCl salt and it worked just fine. However the DMT would be in the freebase form.

Assuming that DMT will also have some level of activity rectally (similar to DPT), the question here which form (salt or freebase) would be expected to have better rectal absorption?

The freebase would be more hydrophobic correct? If this is the case I'm assuming it would have better absorption across tissue membranes than the more hyrodphillic salt form?

SWIM is trying to determine if the freebase would be the preferred form of the compund to use for this type of experiment or if it should be converted to the HCl salt first.

Thanks in advance!
 
Re: Rectal Absorption of DMT - HCl or Freebase?

georgiapoppy said:

Assuming that DMT will also have some level of activity rectally (similar to DPT), the question here which form (salt or freebase) would be expected to have better rectal absorption?
Click to expand...

They'd both absorb eventually without that much of a problem. I'd like to say the salt would be better, but the intenstines are fairly alkaline. At least the small intenstine... I'm note real sure about that far down the line.



The freebase would be more hydrophobic correct? If this is the case I'm assuming it would have better absorption across tissue membranes than the more hyrodphillic salt form?
Click to expand...

The freebase is definately more hydrophobic. It has no ionic properties like the salt, and so it not really soluble to an appreciable degree in water. I'd assume that the freebase would cross the cell membranes faster, though I don't know if that would neccesarily be more efficient for getting it into the bloodstream... have to leave that for someone else to answer.


SWIM is trying to determine if the freebase would be the preferred form of the compund to use for this type of experiment or if it should be converted to the HCl salt first.
Click to expand...

Well, if you convert it to the salt, make you don't use an excess of acid and get a bunch left over in the product. (one of my friends is bad about this). You don't want to burn your ass. no fun.
 
I tried 5-MeO-DMT rectally and it may have produced a + for 10 mins. I doubt it thought. Did I mention I took 25mg?

So, if 5-MeO-DMT is inactive rectally, I will assume that DMT is not active rectally as well. I think there is significant MAO activity in the rectum - remember that DPT is less potent orally - but it is still active, but DMT and 5-MeO-DMT are not.

I could be wrong though. Please report back when you try this.
 
Thanks for the feedback folks. Handy info to have. ;)

Fizzacyst, It sounds like there is probably little point in converting the freebase to the HCl salt. The freebase is probably the best option for both smoking and plugging then. Plus no hassle of having to calculate an equimolar amount of acid to add, etc. Definitely don't want to go burning any ass. =D

Jamshyd, I'm still hopeful that DMT will behave more like DPT and show decent activity when administered rectally without an MAOI. Perhaps in the freebase form it will be hydrophobic enough to be rapidly absorbed without going though significant MAO metabolism. When my friend gets around to trying this in the next few weeks, I will post back the results of his experiments to this thread. He's planning on starting at about 25mg of the freebase and working up from there.

Now DPT is pretty active rectally in the HCl salt form. Granted, it is more potent insufflated (when the majority isn't wasted to a drip), but it makes me wonder if DPT would be more potent rectally in the freebase form as opposed to the salt.

Anyway, thanks for the info folks. Would love to hear any other input and I'll post back once more info is available on this end.

-gp
 
dmt freebase works just fine for insuffulating, so hopefully it's the same deal. but the insuffulated dose is considerably higher than smoked, like 100mg to get a moderate trip (haha.. with dmt moderate is fucking crazy)

I'm not sure about this yet, but I think insuffulated dmt works better with some kind of base present. surely those native guys mixing snuffs that were 1/3 ash were doing it for some reason. and a handful of anecdotal evidence suggests to me that it's not just to convert salts in to the freebase form, but that you can actually get more out of the freebase in alkaline conditions.. loki (author of the elfspice tek) speculated that it "denatured the membrane" (?) anyway, all that makes me pretty sure freebase form is the way to go... but I dunno how eager you are to stick a bunch of base up yer butt.
 
DMT salt is an oil and would be difficult to insufflate... however an oil may be preferable for anal administration... I would guess it may be active rectally but would need a higher dose... probably more than insufflating... it just seems a waste of DMT to me.
 
ingo_2001 said:
DMT salt is an oil ...
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It might appear that way if it is very impure and won't crystallize, but salts of DMT are definately not oils.
 
Apparently the HCl is very hydrophilic and tends to form goo rather than crystals. but loki reported getting dmt tartrate to crystallize I think, many moons ago..

it just seems a waste of DMT to me.
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even if the active dose is higher, I can see why rectal absorption would have it's advantages. the slower onset and longer duration of insuffulating seem to me more appropriate for learning things, rather than just shocking the mind. but insuffulation hurts like a mo-fo, which puts a lot of people off. and it hurts 10x more if you didn't bother to remove trace NaOH from the d...

sublingual would be perfect I think, but I've tried it twice with no fx. it's generally understood that it doesn't work under the tongue. (but why? anyone know? 5-meo-dmt and 5-ho-dmt are both active sublingually)

I've heard that it works transdermally, dissolved in DMSO, but nothing about dose or effectiveness of that.. I wonder what other solvents would work.. (like maybe ethanol?)
 
salts always, always absorb easier into the bloodstream via membranes. Freebases are for smoking, peroid. Snorting a freebase will burn like hell and not work near as well as a salt. If you are going to plug, converting it to a salt would be your best bet...although to be honest if you have DMT salt you might as well go for the real deal and IV it.
 
Apparently the HCl is very hydrophilic and tends to form goo rather than crystals. but loki reported getting dmt tartrate to crystallize I think, many moons ago..
Click to expand...

Yeah I made some DMT HCl and it definitely was a 'goo' but i did read the tartrate salt is a solid.

I've heard that it works transdermally, dissolved in DMSO, but nothing about dose or effectiveness of that.. I wonder what other solvents would work.. (like maybe ethanol?)
Click to expand...

Interesting... I've thought of this but would think the dose would be too high, but damn, for me a DMT patch sounds kinda.. fun hehe. Would it be a salt of DMT dissolved in DMSO? (i'm not even sure exactly what DMSO is) Hmm i should read up on that..
 
i read elsewhere a recipie for a solution for transdermal use of drugs that was based mainly on isopropyl alcohol, with some dmso and some other stuff I mostly didn't recognize. maybe isopropyl is another candidate?

I know it's heartbreaking to use this stuff to anything less than it's potential, but I know at least a few people who have asthma and as a rule don't smoke anything. and the stigma attached to snuffing (or plugging for that matter) make them unappealing to some as well.

for me a DMT patch sounds kinda.. fun hehe.
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could be really fun =D
 
Some of you write about DPT HCL, that it is rectally active.
Is the doseage similar to the amounts used nasally (around 50mg)?
Would be very nice to get the dosage for that kind of administration route from successful users.
 
My vote is for the base. But because they compound is in an equilibrium between it's two states, it shouldn't matter much.
 
farabove_theclouds said:
Some of you write about DPT HCL, that it is rectally active.
Is the doseage similar to the amounts used nasally (around 50mg)?
Would be very nice to get the dosage for that kind of administration route from successful users.
Click to expand...

Actually my quesiton as well is if the freebase or HCl salt of DMT is active rectally. I will have an answer in the next week or so and will post back once I get around to trying it.

I'm planning on starting with 25mg of the freebase and working up from there. If it's active, I'm guessing that 25mg will be enough to see if there's any potential to plugging it.
 
I'm highly =D interested in the results of you DMT research. I think 25 mg's should be quite alright, although it would be just the treshold for the nasal way. But a treshold is already an effect.
 
I just read a report on xxxxxxx of someone who tripped off rectal dmt. she said she melted 200mg of dmt crystals (I assume freebase) in butter, kiestered it and tripped for an hour and a half. she was vague about the details..

there's also a guy on ayahuasca.com who had a very large trip off an ayahuasca enema. but that's probably less interesting because of the presence of an maoi. not using an maoi would seem to be one of the major advatages of rectal dmt.

link ref removed
 
Last edited by a moderator:
farabove_theclouds said:
Some of you write about DPT HCL, that it is rectally active.
Is the doseage similar to the amounts used nasally (around 50mg)?
Would be very nice to get the dosage for that kind of administration route from successful users.
Click to expand...

I replied to this earlier not realizing you were asking about DPT doses rectally. I thought you were asking about DMT. ;)

Personally, 50-55mg of DPT HCl up the nose is more than enough for me to get where I need to go. I don't have too bad a time with the burn/drip, but it does kind of put a negative effect on the trip because it kinda screws with my sinuses.

Plugged, I've done DPT HCl up to 75-80mg and it really just starts to get interesting at that level for me. It's a different trip than snorted. The comeup is slower and more gentle and I don't get the edge (tremors, etc) that I get when snorting it. But that's all good too. =D

So as far as DPT goes, it takes a bit more rectally than snorting it, but if you're comfortable with 50mg nasally, I guess 50mg would probably be a good place to start when plugging it. Good times, no doubt. =D Even at 75mg plugged, I felt I could go much further although it was really starting to get interesting at that level. In combination with miprocin, it's really an ass kicker.

SWIM has 26.6mg of DMT freebase weighed into a gelcap and ready to go. However, he is a drunken fool right now and will likely pass out soon. If he's not too hungover when he wakes up tonight, he will likely try plugging the DMT cap to assess baseline activity. He doesn't expect an earth-shattering experience at this dose, but he's hopeful it will show at least threshold effects at this level/route.

-gp
 
*bump*
Has anyone tried the DMT freebase pluggin meanwhile?
Would be interested in...

Sorry for the late reply georgiapoppy but thank you very much for the detailed information on the rectal DPT way, I will use that probably soon.
 
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