AusDD is changing - Where can we improve?

[belarki]

Another possibility is that general news articles about drugs be posted in the DiTM. A sticky could be created in Aus DD with links to relevant threads in DiTM
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As has been mentioned recently by face__, how about something in depth on addiction? Aside from listing professional services, perhaps we could also look at what drugs became too much for you and how did you beat them? Let’s try to find some success stories that can help others in similar situations.
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What about a drug users kitchen thread. No, not how to cook up drugs , but instead, a what do you cook thread with recipes on everything from a dinner party banquet to preparation and recovery meals; something that focuses on nutrition and drug use. Few things serve to normalise responsible drug use better than demonstrating how users that are aware of, and prioritize their nutritional needs.
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I agree with a lot of your points p_d; excellent post! I've just taken a couple to comment on. While I agree with moving a lot of the news threads to DiTM and having a single thread here linking to Aus-related posts, how valuable would it be to have Aus-centric threads on adiction/cooking etc when these are covered pretty extensively in the dark side, healthy living, second opinion forums etc? (Coincidentally those three are now my forums of choice whereas when I first signed up to BL back in about 01 AusDD was the only one I read).

I guess pretty much everything in AusDD could easily be dicussed in one of the other focus forums? If you take out the news related posts, PIRs, send the social threads to the lounge, etc then you're not left with a lot of substance here anymore. Maybe that's sympomatic of fewer active Aussie BLers now than a decade ago?

I'm not arguing one way or another, just interested to hear what people think should be discussed in AusDD?

 

[phase_dancer]

Thanks for your comments belarki

how valuable would it be to have Aus-centric threads on adiction/cooking etc when these are covered pretty extensively in the dark side, healthy living, second opinion forums etc? (Coincidentally those three are now my forums of choice whereas when I first signed up to BL back in about 01 AusDD was the only one I read).

I think there are some unique demographics to Australia. I'm sure these topics are worth hosting and it gives those with a story a chance to tell it. In relation to the food idea, I'm waiting for a bush tucker based recovery meal


As you'll no doubt recall, one of the once unique things about Aus DD was that we we're our own microcosm. Threads were of regional value simply if they involved what was happening here. So I'm all for threads of local relevance. The significance of local threads on the topics I mentioned is that it promotes a different angle - a seed if your like. My suggestions about shifting news articles off ADD or arranging differently has more to do with over representation and the accompanying problems that has raised.

As I indicated, we need to rearrange the furniture here and bring a focus back to discussing broader areas relating to drug use and HR.

 

[lil angel15]

Awesome input Phase – Thank you!!

I’m not going to break down your input and respond on individual points, rather, I’m going to accept it in its entirety and ensure it’s included, along with others concerns, at the forefront of the AusDD development discussion. The paradigm shift observed is not something that occurred overnight and it won’t be something that can change overnight either. The process of re-direction needs to embrace our current members, encourage participation from a wider audience base and re-engineer AusDD so it’s relevant across age, race and generational differences.

Although the process of change can be guided and encouraged by the mods – it’s users like you that need to assist us in forming a base for the ongoing and extended structural integrity. I have no doubt this process will be met with a certain level of kickback, however, the implementation and eventual return to a competitive and relevant drug HR resource will be worth the personal investment of all involved.

There will be obvious concerns from those who think the resulting change will directly affect their ongoing enjoyment of AusDD. Rest assured that any changes will not take away from the enjoyment associated with AusDD but will serve the dual purpose of providing enjoyment on the backbone of a HR message. It must also be noted that all changes will be in consultation with the current member base, while taking into account the projected benefits associated with different areas of change.

 

[Sykik]

Awesome input Phase – Thank you!!

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I have no doubt this process will be met with a certain level of kickback, however, the implementation and eventual return to a competitive and relevant drug HR resource will be worth the personal investment of all involved.

You say competitive but also say you don't want to stand on PR's toes. I feel a PIR subforum is a must for AusDD to move forward in a HR framework and to encourage more HR discussion.

P_D great post. Highlights some of things I have noticed over my short stint here at BL. I am always willing to try to help the community and to push the HR message, as your posts were always inspiration and teaching when I first wondered into this place.

Lil_angle how long before we see some future goals and changes for AusDD after the discussion and input in this thread?

edit:

lol over 500, I know post counts is a bad topic of discussion in this thread, but LOL. What a place for it to occur.

 

[lil angel15]

You say competitive but also say you don't want to stand on PR's toes. I feel a PIR subforum is a must for AusDD to move forward in a HR framework and to encourage more HR discussion.

Although the statement was directly relating to an issue raised by Phase, it's also relevant to the previously discussed element of a PIR sub forum competing against PR. PR is a sister site of Bluelight and to effectively compete against it would be conterproductive to our needs. In addition to this, the creation of a sub forum needs approval from administrative staff and this will only be given after consultation between all parties involved.

Rest assured that this issue has been passed to the next level and is in the process of consideration through discussion.

Lil_angle how long before we see some future goals and changes for AusDD after the discussion and input in this thread?

The changes are already starting to take shape through thread guidance and moderation. There is concurrent discussion occurring between the AusDD staff, involved elements as well as suggestions being forwarded for consideration by Administrative staff.

The issues AusDD staff and members have direct control over can and will be implemented from this time forward. Areas where Administrative approval is required, engineering support requested or site wide changes expected may take a little while longer to implement. Unfortunately, specific time frames can't be provided because there are so many people involved, and as it's volunteer venture, real life takes priority.

 

[hoptis]

phase, I'm going to pick bits to reply to as there is so much that you've raised that deserves to be addressed and discussed further. Also, please excuse me as I head off on something of a tangent.

Good Point. I'm not sure that completely explains why there is so much contempt shown towards others' preferences etc. and I don't wish to indicate specific examples here, but from what I see, a good many comments are made in relation to media articles or responses to them. A lot of these stories stir up emotions in us all, and so it's quite natural for expression to run wild. However, it doesn't help those who shy away from this board because such comments touched a nerve, so perhaps we need to examine the root cause in relation to thread/post topics.

This is something I notice all over the site actually. People don't tend to see themselves just as drug users, they see themselves as stoners, or tweakers or pill poppers and when it degenerates to the level of name-calling and stereotyping, it really sets us back and puts us in the wrong direction. Spending energy fighting against each other when we really are all in the same boat.

We can't institute rules that forbid stupidity and small mindedness though.

I've heard Bluelight described not long ago as being like the Coldplay of drug forums. Meaning that while this place was once smaller and more specialised in it's focus, both in drugs (mainly ecstasy) and by region (formerly a lot larger Australian contingent) it's now far more American/European and the drug users finding their way here are younger and with a much broader focus. A reflection of what's happened in a wider context over that time as the rave scene died off to be replaced by a mainstream dance music and festival scene.

If the Aus DD of 1999 to 2003 was a reflection of the people getting into "party" drugs back then, then in a way, the Aus DD of today reflects what has replaced that scene, and all that PLUR.

On the one hand you have an increasing normalisation of drug use in young people, and on the other hand you have little or no real movement in drug policy or even a glimpse that things might change... which leads us to today's situation; an acceptance of the current status quo and individuals who have resigned themselves to make the best of their lives within those terms.

Added to this the fascination we've had for the last few years with TV shows like Underbelly and the glamorisation of criminals, what we see in the forum is an increased interest in anything to do with drug law enforcement, and often the most popular threads are about things like bikie wars, how to deal with law enforcement, how to deal with sniffer dogs and so on.

I think you'll agree that while all of these things have their place, or they wouldn't be here, it is perhaps time that they took up less of the discussion here.

My girl recently exclaimed that she's losing interest in helping people who've got enough money to buy tickets, booze and drugs at festivals and then wind up needing help, when there's so many unfortunate people out there for whom disadvantage is far more than simply the result of lifestyle choice. I have to say, when this place was thriving, HR was on everyone's lips.

Over the last year, something that's taken me aback slightly is the number of requests myself and the mods of this forum have received asking us to close threads, or delete posts, that they fear might bring attention to a particular drug or a particular vendor. Often the messages are worded like this:

"Can you please close thread x because it's bringing attention to this vendor"

or

"If this becomes too well known, this drug will be banned and I don't want that to happen".

This sort of me-first mentality seems to be fairly common these days with little or no recognition from some of these folks as to what Bluelight is actually here for.

 

[baysieguy1]

I was thinking about things last night and one thing that did come to mind is that I have seen a lot of new threads closed, the threads in particular that I am concerned about are from greenlighters asking questions that have been answered many many times. Quite often the mod closing the thread will tell the greenlighter to do a search and in some cases give links to certain threads or areas to try looking.
Woud it not be better that rather than closing these threads (some often good greenlighter questions and harm minimisation related) would it not be better to merge the thread with a relevent thread and bump it back to the first page, which could also invigorate fresh discussion on the subject.

Just a thought!

 

[Somewhat-damaged]

That's a good idea. If we link people to threads that are 2 years old and never continue the discussion, eventually there will be no discussion and BL will be an archive of references. Just because a topic has been covered, doesn't mean it shouldn't be reposted and talked about in a more modern context.

 

[drug_mentor]

Great idea baysie guy.

 

[puckboy]

That's a good idea. If we link people to threads that are 2 years old and never continue the discussion, eventually there will be no discussion and BL will be an archive of references. Just because a topic has been covered, doesn't mean it shouldn't be reposted and talked about in a more modern context.

Yeah I tend to agree with that. Especially if the question may have a complex answer/result.

 

[Akhenaten]

1. From what I understand this is mostly dead in the water now. We don't really have any contingency but if it were to become an issue, I'm sure we're all worried that BL would be one of the first sites targetted.

2. This has been raised in the past. One of the points made was that you shouldn't be posting or private messaging anything that is sensitive or could incriminate you in a crime. Secondly encrypting all traffic to and from BL would add a huge overhead to our bandwidth which is already quite massive.

3. In the drug forums this is policed a bit more strictly but it's up to the user to post what they wish in the social forums. If people wish to identify themselves, well it does help to build community and friendships but it is a risk that they are choosing to take.

4. We recently just did a very large prune and will hopefully make this part of our yearly maintenance routine. The Aus DD archives do need a closer going over though because it's also getting quite large.

Thanks for the response Hoptis.

1. Unfortunately The Internet filter is still progressing, the status of 'dead' should only be calculated if the supporting legislation is not passed by the Senate. The current government has used strong numbers to ram through legislation at present (despite the co-alition) I expect more of the same for many unpleasant issues. Given that we are still only at trial stage with respect to this there is still a long way to go and legislation does not yet exist.

A report into the current trial is due for release soon, this is to be followed up with public discussion prior to drafting the legislation. When/if the report is released I will post details on the apropriate BL thread along with my own reasoned thoughts on the proposal.

2. Understood; it is not up to bluelight to nanny in the manner that a governement will try to nanny its populace. Having said that, I would still like to see SSL on the site perhaps for securing the login credentials (you dont need to encrypt the entire site), at least the bandwidth required for authentication is minimal and encryption adds an average 15%-20% on top.

3. I concur...

4. I concur...

 

[static_mind]

First and foremost, Harm Reduction needs to become the focus again, and not merely drug related news articles and 2 line meaningless posts that currently form the basis of many Aus DD threads.
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I’d like to also add that I believe the codeine extraction etc threads are really out of place.

Thats kind of what im getting at. This place isnt about HR anymore. People throw it around but they really are pro drug. The non stop ranting about how all drugs should be legal IS prodrug. People throw their prodrug ideas about and cover it in a HR banner. People here always throw a pro drug idea out and cover it in the rouse of HR and it really doesnt do us any favours. Iv been post here less and less and I think alot of others are as well.


I also think the CWE thread is couner productive. Its covered in the "lets minimise harm" banner but in essence its really a "look how we can get hight".

These news anti-codeine laws comeing in, I really think BL had a big part to play....

 

[expothead]

I think it fair to say that most people that come to Bluelight are prodrug - otherwise why would we be here. I, for one, am not ashamed of it, per se, although society wants me to be.

Sure some say 'legalise all drugs' yet this view, as far as I can tell, seems to be balanced by more mature?, informed?,moderate? opinions.

I think the CWE thread and the 2-line inane threads (don't get me started on CD) are simply a parts of a warts-and-all approach to drug-discussion. Over-moderating these threads might alienate some users - the very users, in fact, that probably need to be educated the most.

It's sad that the politicians, authorities and media etc aren't intelligent enough to understand the insight that Bluelight gives them into the minds of illicit drug users. I live in hope that one day they might wake up and realise that we are just normal people and valuable members of society and that the war on drugs really is a pointless, costly and incredibly harmful exercise.

 

[lil angel15]

I was thinking about things last night and one thing that did come to mind is that I have seen a lot of new threads closed, the threads in particular that I am concerned about are from greenlighters asking questions that have been answered many many times. Quite often the mod closing the thread will tell the greenlighter to do a search and in some cases give links to certain threads or areas to try looking.
Woud it not be better that rather than closing these threads (some often good greenlighter questions and harm minimisation related) would it not be better to merge the thread with a relevent thread and bump it back to the first page, which could also invigorate fresh discussion on the subject.

Just a thought!

A great observation and something we will endeavour to do in the future. It's especially important in cases where the 'new' question may not be answered in full within the old thread. If we centralise the information then the actual information value increases, which in turn provides a better HR resource into the future.

Obviously there will still be cases where threads are simply closed and re-directed but this should only be utilised when the question is of a basic nature or the previous answers have been entirely comprehensive. In addition to closing threads it may also be of benefit to provide the answer as well as the links but this will be restricted by the time constraints of the moderator in question.

That's a good idea. If we link people to threads that are 2 years old and never continue the discussion, eventually there will be no discussion and BL will be an archive of references. Just because a topic has been covered, doesn't mean it shouldn't be reposted and talked about in a more modern context.

Threads are closed and directed to pre-existing threads or merged to ensure the information is easily accessible in the future - remember Bluelight is an information resource. If the information is centralised as much as possible then it reduces the chances it will be lost during forum pruning. Although it may seem illogical at times - Why re-invent the wheel?

If, however, there is room for further valuable discussion then it should be encouraged by all means. If this can be achieved through the merging of threads then the potential for valuable information to be lost is minimised.

Thats kind of what im getting at. This place isnt about HR anymore. People throw it around but they really are pro drug. The non stop ranting about how all drugs should be legal IS prodrug. People throw their prodrug ideas about and cover it in a HR banner. People here always throw a pro drug idea out and cover it in the rouse of HR and it really doesnt do us any favours. Iv been post here less and less and I think alot of others are as well.


I also think the CWE thread is couner productive. Its covered in the "lets minimise harm" banner but in essence its really a "look how we can get hight".

These news anti-codeine laws comeing in, I really think BL had a big part to play....

We try and maintain a balanced approach when discussing topics, however, due to the majority of users being drug users themselves a pro-drug mentality is often conveyed. It's an obvious concern that we don't sway too far left or right of centre, less we become a target for politically motivated groups to attack and discredit us. I think it's important that we encourage discussion from both sides of the coin and move away from the 'make all drugs legal' one line arguments.

In regards to the CWE thread - it's time this got cleaned up and we get away from the 'I'm doing a 250mg extraction'. This value adds nothing to the thread and if viewed from the outside just makes us look like another drug chat forum. The process itself is quite simple and the ongoing baseless discussion actually takes away from any HR benefit derived from doing a CWE. This is certainly an area that will be looked at in the future with the intention of centralising the information, compiling a FAQ and reducing the glorification of the process.

 

[drug_mentor]

^ I have been guilty of some of the more social chatter in the CWE thread but I don't think it should be closed. There are a lot of people that post questions about their technique for it to be critiqued or who fuck it up and ask for advice on how it could be improved. If it weren't for discussion in that thread I doubt I would have my CWE technique down pat yet and theres a chance I would of fucked my liver by repeated efforts with no advice. I admit some of the questions that get asked in there could easily be answered by reading the whole thread but most of the newbies who post these question aren't willing to do the reading and active answering of their questions is the only way they get the answers they seek.

 

[Somewhat-damaged]

Yeah, the CWE could be risky to close. If one person does the extraction wrong, they could really mess up their liver.

Unless the centralised thread has a very in-depth guide and a considerably large FAQ, there will still be greenlighters registering and starting new threads and asking questions, better to keep it open and all the discussion in that one thread in my opinion.

 

[chemi]

Yeah, the CWE could be risky to close. If one person does the extraction wrong, they could really mess up their liver.

Unless the centralised thread has a very in-depth guide and a considerably large FAQ, there will still be greenlighters registering and starting new threads and asking questions, better to keep it open and all the discussion in that one thread in my opinion.

Agree. The CWE is in-fact a very important HR thread as it details crucial steps in a very detailed and constructive manner to avoid stuffing up your organs. I have a friend who was not aware of CWE and has been ruining his liver for years. Now he extracts, but who knows how much damage was done while he was in the dark.

 

[lil angel15]

Yeah, the CWE could be risky to close. If one person does the extraction wrong, they could really mess up their liver.

Unless the centralised thread has a very in-depth guide and a considerably large FAQ, there will still be greenlighters registering and starting new threads and asking questions, better to keep it open and all the discussion in that one thread in my opinion.

I believe there may be some confusion surrounding my previous post regarding the CWE thread. The intention isn't to close the thread, rather, it's about centralising the information, creating an in depth FAQ and discouraging the incessant chatter that occurs within.

The process itself is quite simple but the benefit gained from the thread is often overshadowed by pages of useless information that detracts from the more valuable contributions. The incidence of new threads created would decrease if new users didn't have to navigate their way through page upon page of baseless chatter to find the information that could potentially reduce the harm associated with consuming large amounts of APAP or Ibuprofen.

So rest assured, the current intention isn't to close the thread but to make it more user friendly.

 

[hoptis]

Thanks for some of the recent comments. It worries me that people think this forum is becoming pro-drug, though I can't argue with that observation entirely. I would like to believe that BL'ers are sensible enough to recognise that all drugs are inherently harmful, on many levels, and that whatever personal beliefs we may have about legalisation, Bluelight is here to promote the minimisation of harm (and risk). One of the ways to reduce the harms of drug use is simply to encourage each other to take less.

You can be pro-drug without being pro for the consumption of them.

You can be supportive of moderate or even sane drug use. It doesn't make you any less cool.

Cold Water Extraction: I've voiced numerous concerns myself about it in the past. The brilliant FAQ that Mr Blonde wrote should be the starting point for CWE information, the thread in Aus DD should be limited to very specific discussion, when it gets into just day-to-day chatter, postings of ceiling doses to hit, that's when it needs to be curtailed.

I'd encourage anyone who posts regularly in that thread to voice their opinions here and now.

 

[Luude]

Dude, it is Pro Drug, whether we like it or not, 30 seconds of reading the threads in AusDD are all about getting fucked up on some sort of illicit substance. I think whats important is ensuring the people choosing to use said drugs are doing it in a responsible manner.

Its not like people come here to be told how bad drugs are, alot of threads are made in order to maximise how fucked up they get ie: "CWE Thread" etc.