AusDD is changing - Where can we improve?

[baysieguy1]

^ I have to say that it wast the harm minimisation and information available that brought me to BL, I have learnt a great deal and taught me to keep away from shit pills and be wary of what is being pushed.

 

[lil angel15]

It's been nearly a week since any new input into this thread and over two weeks since it was created. The wheels of change have been put in motion in some areas and discussion continues in others. I thank you all for your input and hope we're able to shape AusDD into an effective HR tool while remaining relevant across a variety of boundaries.

The points below outline the major areas of concern and although not exhaustive of the ideas raised, they have provided a good base for development. The information in brackets is indicative of current progress and forward movement from this point can be expected from a snails pace to immediate change.

• Pill Info Request sub forum (Admin review)
• News sub forum (Admin review)
• Prices (Discussion complete. No change required)
• Moderation (Mod discussion)
• FAQs (Ongoing project)
• Archive Clean up (Ongoing project)
• Automatic message on post edit or deletion (Engineer review)
• User security (Admin review)
• Guideline modification (Mod discussion/Ongoing project)
• Regaining the HR focus (Mod discussion/Ongoing project)
• Pruning (Admin/Mod discussion)

It should be noted that areas highlighted with 'Ongoing project' require the assistance of all users through contribution or highlighting areas of deficit. These areas require the user to report an area of concern through PM, or the report system, and bring it to the attention of the moderators. Once this has been done then appropriate changes can be made if/when required.

One of the main areas of concern was the moderation in AusDD. The moderation is simply carried out in line with the BLUA and the Australian Drug Discussion Guidelines. If you would like to see changes to the moderation through the modification of the Australian Drug Discussion Guidelines then this is your chance to raise it in an open forum. It's requested that you either quote the current guideline you want changed or submit a new guideline you want included and provide adequate justification for the change. It must be noted that if you're unwilling to take the time and justify your want then just as much time will be spent considering its modification or inclusion.

 

[MazDan]

I was thinking about things last night and one thing that did come to mind is that I have seen a lot of new threads closed, the threads in particular that I am concerned about are from greenlighters asking questions that have been answered many many times. Quite often the mod closing the thread will tell the greenlighter to do a search and in some cases give links to certain threads or areas to try looking.
Woud it not be better that rather than closing these threads (some often good greenlighter questions and harm minimisation related) would it not be better to merge the thread with a relevent thread and bump it back to the first page, which could also invigorate fresh discussion on the subject.

Just a thought!

I wanted to add a comment to this as i consider it of particular import.

Its important to remember why we are here.........HR.

As such the most important poster on Bluelight is the dude with the smallest post count.

Thats the person that we need to encourage to hang arround more.

The reason? Simple. Those who have been here a while are already educated or should be.

The new members are seeking information and we want them to learn as much as humanly possible.

To facilitate this, one of the best methods is to encourage them to ask even (what to older users may be) the most silliest of questions.

Give them an answer, provide links to other info and do not discourage further discussion. It doesnt matter if its the same thing that was discussed last week. If its that commonly asked then its important to get the message out there more.

Yes it can become boring to the older heads...........but like I said...........you older heads are not the most important people at bluelight........ the new posters are.

 

[blau1005]

Hey guys, hope it's not too late to add a couple of comments.


1. News threads. I agree that there is an issue with the number of news threads on the front page of AusDD.

Enforcing a policy of all news threads to go into DitM (and moving any posted in AusDD to DiTM) is the best solution in my mind. An Aus News subforum does decentralise the news information, and is rather defeating the purpose of DitM. As others have pointed out, a very specific subforum like Aus News may not attract enough traffic to warrant its existence.

However, given the amount of articles that are posted in AusDD atm, would this create a deluge of Australian content in DitM? I don't spend much time in DitM at the moment, so don't know if this would be the case - perhaps drug_mentor can tell us? If it were the case, does an Aus News subforum then become the better solution?

Finally, I have posted news articles myself, not because I couldn't be bothered going to DitM, but because there were regular news threads in AusDD and I got the impression that this was the accepted place for these threads. Whatever the solution is to this issue is, perhaps it would be nice to have a note in the guidelines about it, just to specify exactly where news threads are expected to be posted.


2. The CWE thread. The thread did start as a description of the CWE technique, but has evolved to be a general discussion of codeine, including topics like enzyme inhibitors/inducers, antihistamines, codeine scheduling, etc. I can understand users getting the impression that the thread is all questions about 'how do I maximise my yield' or 'will GFJ get me higher' because tbh questions like this do often crop up.

I have a couple of ideas of how to improve the situation and refocus the codeine discussion on HR -

a) Mr Blonde's FAQ was good but far from comprehensive, IMO, because it's primarily concerned with CWE technique. A majority of the questions asked in the CWE thread now could easily be answered by a more general but detailed codeine FAQ, one that includes information on HR, inhibitors, CWE technique etc.
There is a vast amount of information contained in the CWE mega threads, and the archived threads about splittable Nurofen+ etc. This information just needs to be brought together in an easily readable document that could hopefully answer a few more of these recurring questions that we see coming up in the CWE thread at present. I would be willing to work on such an FAQ if needed.

b) As well as a more general codeine FAQ, I think we then need to have a general codeine thread that deals with all the codeine issues, not just a CWE technique thread that has gotten out of hand. Sure, there will still be the questions on technique, but the thread would have a broader focus, and this shift could provoke more meaningful and thoughtful discussion. Regardless of how well this works, surely a general codeine thread would give a more positive image than a CWE technique thread that, to some, seems to exist only to help users better their technique or increase their yield.


3. Guidelines. I'd like to see the guidelines updated a bit. There's some really outdated info in there, for example about PIRs. Regulars would know the current expectations surrounding PIRs, but newbs who read the guidelines could easily become confused. Especially considering that the guidelines are where everyone is pointed to when they join or whenever mods take action, it would seem necessary that they are kept properly up to date.


4. AusDD in general. What is AusDD's purpose? What are its aims? I can't see this written anywhere, although there seems to be some collective idea of what the purpose and aims are. I would assume that we need to know what the goals of the forum are before we can set out guidelines on how to achieve them. I know BL has a general direction, I'm talking about AusDD specifically.

A regional forum like AusDD is tricky - if you post a basic drug question, you're sent to BDD. An psychedelic question, you're sent to PDD. An events thread, you're sent to Aus S&E.

So what kinds of threads do we want to see in here? There seems to be a bit of chatter from the older posters remarking that the forum isn't as it used to be. What types of threads are you referring to that aren't posted any more? Or do you just mean it used to have a more HR focus and now that has been lost?


Well that's my input for now. Hope it provides some food for thought, especially on the CWE thread.

 

[Oldrolla]

I have some input....
Why shut down a thread when there only a few ppl doing the wrong thing?
And by a few i mean one out of say ten....meh!!!
Anyway i just thought i would rant

 

[Oldrolla]

I love this place and would hate to see the social side of it falter just because of a few... i know we have to be seen as doing the right thing but...

Plur BL PPL.....

 

[MazDan]

I love this place and would hate to see the social side of it falter just because of a few... i know we have to be seen as doing the right thing but...

Plur BL PPL.....

Did you know that there is an entire Aussie Social forum?



Regards the CWE business........is it not something that should be discussed in OD? Wouldnt CWE FAQs be in OD?

I always thought of Australian DD as meaning it needed to have an Australian tint to it.

Hence Pill ID discussion or specific harm reduction discussion or even means of improving harm reduction on an Aussie scale.

I quite like being able to find the News items related to Australia over here but I can understand if there are that many that it clutters things up.....its never seemed that way to me though.

Personally i have always considered Aus DD as one of the benchmark forums here at Bluelight............somehow just that little bit above many of the others.

For that i think the credit needs to go to all the regular posters here and also the various Mods smods and admin who have worked to make it what it is.

 

[Somewhat-damaged]

Suggestion: Australian drug discussion v3.

It's nice to actually speak to these awesome people in a more social sense. Shutting that thread was stupid IMO, just enforce the rules, no need to shut the thread..

I've met some pretty awesome people because of that thread, that I talk to on msn pretty much all day, and I know I'll meet more, but not if it's shut.


Can we get an update on any of the decisions made? In particular the PIR's?

 

[Oldrolla]

Did you know that there is an entire Aussie Social forum?

Yeah Mazdan i know there is but you cannot discuss drug related matters, whereas here you can....
Anyway this is off topic so ill leave it at that

 

[Somewhat-damaged]

Did you know that there is an entire Aussie Social forum?

Many people (including myself) never post over there, and many people over there never post over here. It's a completely different forum.

 

[puckboy]

Many people (including myself) never post over there, and many people over there never post over here. It's a completely different forum.

qft

 

[lil angel15]

Hey guys, hope it's not too late to add a couple of comments.


1. News threads. I agree that there is an issue with the number of news threads on the front page of AusDD.

Enforcing a policy of all news threads to go into DitM (and moving any posted in AusDD to DiTM) is the best solution in my mind. An Aus News subforum does decentralise the news information, and is rather defeating the purpose of DitM. As others have pointed out, a very specific subforum like Aus News may not attract enough traffic to warrant its existence.

However, given the amount of articles that are posted in AusDD atm, would this create a deluge of Australian content in DitM? I don't spend much time in DitM at the moment, so don't know if this would be the case - perhaps drug_mentor can tell us? If it were the case, does an Aus News subforum then become the better solution?

Finally, I have posted news articles myself, not because I couldn't be bothered going to DitM, but because there were regular news threads in AusDD and I got the impression that this was the accepted place for these threads. Whatever the solution is to this issue is, perhaps it would be nice to have a note in the guidelines about it, just to specify exactly where news threads are expected to be posted.

The discussion is still ongoing but in the short term we will probably look at creating a general Australian news mega thread while still allowing news threads that relate directly to the goals of Bluelight. It will be determined on a case by case basis but one thing you will see is the removal of baseless posts like 'QFT' and 'fucking pigs'. The intention is to encourage valuable, well thought out discussion while discouraging posting styles that value add nothing to the forum.

I would be willing to work on such an FAQ if needed.

If you're willing to do that it would be fantastic. It's a community and the only way it will grow and develop is through widespread participation like this from all members.

3. Guidelines. I'd like to see the guidelines updated a bit. There's some really outdated info in there, for example about PIRs. Regulars would know the current expectations surrounding PIRs, but newbs who read the guidelines could easily become confused. Especially considering that the guidelines are where everyone is pointed to when they join or whenever mods take action, it would seem necessary that they are kept properly up to date.

The new PIR guidelines have been created and are currently going through a QC process to ensure they are clear and concise. The remainder of the guidelines and additional information contained within will be addressed when time permits.

Previously I asked for suggestions for guideline modifications but the lacklustre input suggests there mustn't be much wrong with them. The guidelines will be updated and modified in time but if the community isn't willing to make suggestions then we can only assume you are all happy with how they stand.

4. AusDD in general. What is AusDD's purpose? What are its aims? I can't see this written anywhere, although there seems to be some collective idea of what the purpose and aims are. I would assume that we need to know what the goals of the forum are before we can set out guidelines on how to achieve them. I know BL has a general direction, I'm talking about AusDD specifically.

This is a fantastic suggestion and has been mentioned previously in our staff discussion. It's something that will definitely be worked on and will provide a good overview of AusDD and how it fits into the Bluelight puzzle.

Regards the CWE business........is it not something that should be discussed in OD? Wouldnt CWE FAQs be in OD?

A lot of Aussie posters stick to AusDD exclusively and may not want to venture out of their comfort zone. Although I agree a FAQ should be housed in OD - and this would be the best place for related discussion - I still think a CWE thread should continue to be maintained in AusDD. The main problem with the current thread is discussion that doesn't match up with the goals of the site.

Suggestion: Australian drug discussion v3.

It's nice to actually speak to these awesome people in a more social sense. Shutting that thread was stupid IMO, just enforce the rules, no need to shut the thread..

I've met some pretty awesome people because of that thread, that I talk to on msn pretty much all day, and I know I'll meet more, but not if it's shut.

The problem with this thread is that it has the potential to negatively impact on the overall image of AusDD. Although the posts are generally moderated within a reasonable timeframe, the problem continues to rear its ugly head, while influencing similar discussion as long as it remains unmoderated.

It's a shame that the actions of a few have the potential to imapact the majority but there comes a time where the balance tips too far. It still hasn't been decided what will happen with the thread but I assume we will have an answer in the coming days.

Can we get an update on any of the decisions made? In particular the PIR's?

I briefly touched on the News issue above and this will be enacted in the coming weeks. There is also forward movement in regards to PIRs of which I'm sure you will all be happy when the final decision has been made and implemented. A lot of the other changes wont be immediate and will be integrated over time without too much notice or kickback. The creation of new documents is ongoing and will be rolled out periodically. Rest assured that the changes will come, but it does take time.

 

[drug_mentor]

Blau I don't think that the amount of articles currently posted in AusDD would pose too much of a problem in taking up alot of space in DiTM. It is definately worth a trial run, worst case scenario there could be a specific Australian thread.

In regards to the social forum, it is a shame it has been closed... I do see where the thread had became in issue in some ways but at the same time I think its fair to say since the social thread was created AusDD as a whole became a much more tight knit community.

 

[hyroller]

^^^^ yeah, precisely.

Clearly the actions of one member ended up spoiling it for the rest. Frustrating, and it has made the place a whole lot less inviting in a matter of days

 

[chemi]

^^^^ yeah, precisely.

Clearly the actions of one member ended up spoiling it for the rest. Frustrating, and it has made the place a whole lot less inviting in a matter of days

I must agree, I have been finding myself feeling much more disconnected to the BL community since it was closed. Perhaps an over-reaction, but nonetheless the truth.

 

[Sameria]

I feel exactly the same.

The social thread was the place for off topic crap and a good place for people to get to know each other.

Just because a few people broke the rules doesn't mean it should be locked down completely.

 

[chemi]

I can see why the mods have done it though, they don't want BL to become a legal minefield (which it pretty much is already)

 

[lil angel15]

The social thread issue is obviously a major concern but I'm only reading complaints with no real solutions offered. I've said it previously that this forum belongs to the members and is simply maintained by the moderators. In saying this, however, there comes a time when the negatives start to outweigh the positives. This has led us to our current predicament where action needed to be taken to maintain the integrity of the forum.

I realise it's hard for you to understand why this has happened because the majority of the posts have been unapproved and it simply looks like the thread was running smoothly. The obvious question will then be - Why does it matter if no one can see them???? The problem is that people who may be new to the site, researchers or journalists may see these posts before they are moderated and get the impression Bluelight is just another drug chat site under the guise of HR. This couldn't be further from the truth - but how do they know that?

There is no doubt the social thread has its positive elements as well - all of which have been mentioned above. The thread creates an increased community spirit and could potentially act as a gateway for members to find their feet before participating in more rigorous discussion. This is the kind of thread it needs to be and not a thread to dicksize about how much you've taken or how 'fucked up' you are. This kind of discussion impresses no one and only pushes away or reinforces the beliefs of outsiders who are not familiar, or interested, with the goals of Bluelight.

The reminders in the thread didn't work, PMs didn't work and even other avenues didn't work. Should we make it clearer what's expected in the thread and make the individuals responsible for their actions, rather than the collective. Do we treat the disregard of the thread rules as a personal attack against the ongoing future of the thread and remove them from participating for a short time. Do we just let the thread remain a part of Bluelight history, never to return. These are the things you need to consider and put forward if you want the thread to return.

So I put it back to you - How do we rectify this issue so the thread returns, while ensuring it doesn't jeopardise the image of AusDD?

 

[Somewhat-damaged]

Moderate it instead of closing it?

Rules of Australian drug discussion v3. Any posting of amounts or "how fucked up you are" = instant weekly ban. Continuation of this behaviour will lead to a permanent ban.

Easy.

 

[chemi]

Thanks for the response lil_angel

In reality, without cooperation of our members, there really is no way to guarantee dicksizing posts will not occur. We will always need moderators watching the thread, and it is a difficult one to watch as pages of conversation can easily occur in a 24 hour period. I think we, as members, need to take on the role of pointing out where other users can and should edit their posts to stay within the guidelines of BL. I haven't really seen any "self-moderating" but perhaps this is something to be investigated. Those who break the rules should continue to receive warnings, and in more serious cases, suspensions.

Is there any way to have the rules of the social thread listed clearly in bold, red text at the top of each new page? I think it's less a matter of users delibrately breaking the rules, more of forgetting how specific and important they are, NO listing of amounts, NO listing of how "fucked up" they are.

I think the closing of the thread has shown our users already how crucial it is that they follow the guidelines BL has stated. They are most definitely there for a reason.