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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

AusDD is changing - Where can we improve?

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^dude.. just coz this account is from this year...

don't make assumptions. Alot of my good mates happen to be old mods etc. what would you know?

Again, no one gives a shit. That does not make you any more important than any other member here including the greenlighters so get that out of your head.

This thread is here to post your criticisms about mods, and other issues wtih the forum. And what we can do about it. If everyone keeps getting uppety about criticisms made against them (im aiming this mainly at mods cracking it when people are unhappy with their work) - what good can this thread do, except start a flame war?

Why exactly are you not happy about with the moderation? What could be improved? Lil_angel15 is there to enforce the rules and does it very well, what more do you want?

I've been a bluelight member since about 2002/2003. And this forum has deteriorated solidly since then, along with the quality of pills and the pillreports website since Johnboy, cowboy mac, Splatt and PMA Sux (ld50 vs ssri) left. This little social gang gathering thats happening here in ausdd defeats the purpose of the forum altogether - and we should probably remove it - people mentioning what drug they're on every 5 minutes is hardly important - or useful.

Bluelight is not the cause for the decline of pill quality, and nor is it responsible for the decline of pill reports. It's a USER community, unless you are contributing pill reports and trying to make it a better place then you have no right to criticize it.

Instead of just complaining, how about you offer a solution?
 
^ i never directly linked bluelight with a decline in pill quality, i just said its much of the same - it's declined along with pill quality ya goose. chill out mate..

Who the hell do ya think you are? I've had my personal quarrels with the mods - many of which still stand. get over yourself - no one gives a shit about you - damaged goods arent much use to anyone ;)

I'm not at liberty to divulge my pillreports username - i do contribute to pillreports when i take pills thank you very much. as i said - quit with the assumptions.

If i had good solutions i'd input them, outlining the problems is the first step douche.

The only thing i could say as a definate solution would be to make me admin and overlord of the bl nazi regime. but no, i don't really want to mod this site - i get off on seeing guys like you get fired up for nothing - just stay in your hole and stop your bitching unless you actually have something to bitch about.
 
I’ve been so impressed by the majority of input into this thread and I think it’s fantastic that you’re all concerned about the future direction of AusDD. I can assure you this thread isn’t about paying lip service and each and every one of your ideas will be considered during the redevelopment.

I only ask that we try and keep the discussion civil and focus on the re-development of AusDD and attempt to put aside any personal bias. This discussion has been great so far and I would hate to see it tarnished by petty personal arguments.

I agree on creating some more FAQs one for each of the major recreation drugs. Ectsacy (done allready), GHB, speed, ice, meph, and others.... I will be willing to make a mephedrone FAQ.

======================================

Now I have an Idea for the PIR issue. It will require a dedicated individual, perhaps a moderator with limited power. A PIR moderator. Now bare with me.

There is to be One post that is closed, that is formatted very well, into State regions. With links to PIR that are created in a subforum. This post would be sticked. And would show the last time it was editied by a MOD.

Users could create a PIR in this subforum of AUSdd. From here it would be linked in the sticked post here on the front page.

If pills are in two states, the link is simply copied into multiple areas. THe link would also have a date stamp and be in chronological order. In the subforum people could simply browse as they wont. The one post closed thread would look like this:



I feel a similar idea could work for the news issue. But I feel the news doesn't clog up the front page as much as the PIR does.

Enough for now.

Awesome ideas Sykik. :)

Although there is some great information in the Drug FAQs forum, a lot of this information hasn’t been updated for an extended period of time. I mentioned previously that these updates were an ongoing activity but any help that can be offered is always appreciated. If anyone sees information that is incorrect, or potentially dangerous, then it’s always a good idea to report the offending post so it can be reviewed.

In regards to a Meph FAQ – It would be fantastic if you were willing to put something together. Due to it being ‘relatively’ new in Australia it might be an idea to seek input from the European & African Drug Discussion where it appears to be much more widespread. I’m sure a very informative FAQ could be created from the collective minds of Bluelight which would continue to benefit Bluelighter’s for years to come.

I love the idea of a stickied and regularly updated PIR post with direct linking to a PIR subforum. This would create some additional work for the mods but nothing which could be deemed too excessive. The benefits of such a post, which would be located in the primary AusDD forum, far outweighs the negative aspect of any additional work it may create for the forum mods. Once again, my concern is how much a PIR sub-forum would take way from the effectiveness of pillreports.com. It’s definitely something that will be seriously considered after further discussion with all those involved.

We could have an AUDD vote for the moderators of the Aussie PIR sub-forum.

I don’t think we would have a moderator whose sole responsibility would be to look after a PIR sub-forum, however, the addition of a new moderator to the AusDD team would be considered. The main reason for this is that people get sick, people go on holidays and any other number of reasons why extended absences could be expected. If we implement a PIR sub-forum then we would need to ensure that full coverage is maintained as the guidelines would be very specific and it would probably require tightened moderation in its infancy.

The voting for a new mod is something that we could definitely look at. Although we already have processes in place for the selection of mods there is nothing saying they can't be modified where necessary to meet the wants and needs of the forum.

I've had problems with the moderation of this forum since Fry-d, p_d and BT left. Those were mods who had a real input and a great knowledge. But you would know that since you've been lurking round here for 7 odd years.

I’m not sure who you are, or what you’re previous accounts may have been, but if you’ve had problems with the moderation for an extended period of time then why haven’t you put your best foot forward and applied for a mod spot. If you know where things need to change then the best places to make the changes is from a position that has been open on numerous occasions since all three of the mentioned ex-mods departures.

If there is a mod opening in the near future then I implore you to apply which will allow you to make the changes you want should you be successful.

lil angel 15:

About time you agreed with something i had to say.

I'd say prior to implementation of such a thread - a small study on what people commonly pay for drugs should be carried out in a survey, and averages used so as to avoid dicksizing. And this should probably be updated yearly. This would stop people being ripped off, and in turn stop violence as a result

I can assure you that the addition of prices within AusDD is very unlikely thus a thread discussing what people are paying throughout Australia is just as unlikely. I still encourage you to produce a ‘Street Drugs FAQ’ which can be just as beneficial without the addition of prices.

There should be a rating system for mods, similar to Aura

vBulletin has a reputation functionality but I’m not sure of the benefits of implementing it for mods only. One of the problems with the implementation of such functionality is it can lead to division between members that we already see with regards to join dates, and post counts, but on a more advanced level.

What do see the benefits of implementing such functionality and would you want it across the board or just for mods, if so, Why??

Mods come and go.
In reality there are people that will always be here and have more than a short "ownership" of Aus DD, and that put more input and knowledge into the forum, and maybe forget passwords or something (and use hushmail to register.. dunno...) and have been around since very early 2000's and will never dissapear.

I’m not sure that I understand what this post is trying to get across. Is this a development suggestion or just some random gibberish?

This thread is here to post your criticisms about mods, and other issues wtih the forum. And what we can do about it. If everyone keeps getting uppety about criticisms made against them (im aiming this mainly at mods cracking it when people are unhappy with their work) - what good can this thread do, except start a flame war?

This little social gang gathering thats happening here in ausdd defeats the purpose of the forum altogether - and we should probably remove it - people mentioning what drug they're on every 5 minutes is hardly important - or useful.

This threads purpose is for all aspects of the forum that may be lacking to be raised. It doesn't matter if it has to do with process, moderation or contents of the forum. I can assure you all issues raised have been considered and the reactions to criticism of Staff has been positive. It's important that we don't allow the thread to digress less we lose the effectiveness and forward movement already envisaged.

The social thread is something that has the potential to be a great aspect of the forum but also something that could rip it to pieces. The thread has created more of a community feel within the forum and potentially keeps off topic discussion out of the remainder of the forum. The thread has recently had specific guidelines included to ensure it remains a positive aspect and doesn't distract from the overarching HR message of Bluelight. The inclusion of amounts consumed or 'How fucked up you are' is no longer permitted in the thread and has been embraced by everyone who uses it regularly. Guidance to what's permitted in the thread can be found--------------------> HERE
 
......

In regards to a Meph FAQ – It would be fantastic if you were willing to put something together. Due to it being ‘relatively’ new in Australia it might be an idea to seek input from the European & African Drug Discussion where it appears to be much more widespread. I’m sure a very informative FAQ could be created from the collective minds of Bluelight which would continue to benefit Bluelighter’s for years to come.

PM me if you would like some help with this.

I love the idea of a stickied and regularly updated PIR post with direct linking to a PIR subforum. This would create some additional work for the mods but nothing which could be deemed too excessive. The benefits of such a post, which would be located in the primary AusDD forum, far outweighs the negative aspect of any additional work it may create for the forum mods. Once again, my concern is how much a PIR sub-forum would take way from the effectiveness of pillreports.com. It’s definitely something that will be seriously considered after further discussion with all those involved.

See higlighted sentence. I do not understand that point of taking away from pillreports.com. There are advantages to PR.com and there are to BL.com. The feedback and general IQ of posters IMO is far greater here on BL, and there is less dicksizing and talk of tripple stacks.

In my opinion it would not take away from PR.com but be an addition, users should be able to peruse two databases, in stead of one. It allows for more information for the user. And I feel it would be alot easier to spot a dealer floggin off his bunk here at BL than PR, as like you said, the moderation job would be tight. And generally people like the slightly afk now mushi_mushi and others that contribute heavily to PIRs can be considered a more trustfull source of information and HR.

TL;DR: It would not be taking away form PR, but adding to the community. As the community is more important than stepping on PR shoes.

I don’t think we would have a moderator whose sole responsibility would be to look after a PIR sub-forum, however, the addition of a new moderator to the AusDD team would be considered. The main reason for this is that people get sick, people go on holidays and any other number of reasons why extended absences could be expected. If we implement a PIR sub-forum then we would need to ensure that full coverage is maintained as the guidelines would be very specific and it would probably require tightened moderation in its infancy.

The voting for a new mod is something that we could definitely look at. Although we already have processes in place for the selection of mods there is nothing saying they can't be modified where necessary to meet the wants and needs of the forum.

I feel someone could be given modding power over that forum. With the help of the other mods, it could become a great resource. As some users are particularly well versed with pills, and such a user would be a great asset to that sub-forum as a mod if this idea ever got off the ground.


ps. editing a post by copying and pasting links and simple formatting wouldn't take long. Proberbly about 30min's a day with the average amount of PIRs coming in.
 
See higlighted sentence. I do not understand that point of taking away from pillreports.com. There are advantages to PR.com and there are to BL.com. The feedback and general IQ of posters IMO is far greater here on BL, and there is less dicksizing and talk of tripple stacks.

In my opinion it would not take away from PR.com but be an addition, users should be able to peruse two databases, in stead of one. It allows for more information for the user. And I feel it would be alot easier to spot a dealer floggin off his bunk here at BL than PR, as like you said, the moderation job would be tight. And generally people like the slightly afk now mushi_mushi and others that contribute heavily to PIRs can be considered a more trustfull source of information and HR.

TL;DR: It would not be taking away form PR, but adding to the community. As the community is more important than stepping on PR shoes.

My concern is that the more informed individuals would start to use Bluelight solely for their pill information which would lead to a dramatic decline in the quality of reports on PR. Although this would be beneficial to the users of Bluelight, it could potentially lead to an environment of misinformation and dealer reports on PR.

Basically, it's not about stepping on the toes of PR but providing effective HR resources on both sites. We need to be careful that Bluelight doesn't poach all the informed users which would leave PR with dealers and new users who know no better.


I feel someone could be given modding power over that forum. With the help of the other mods, it could become a great resource. As some users are particularly well versed with pills, and such a user would be a great asset to that sub-forum as a mod if this idea ever got off the ground.


ps. editing a post by copying and pasting links and simple formatting wouldn't take long. Proberbly about 30min's a day with the average amount of PIRs coming in.

There's a variety of considerations that would need to be taken into account with the addition of a new mod. Due to them also being a mod within the remainder of the forum they would need to complement the current team and hopefully fill any knowledge/capability gaps.

Another issue is that the individual the majority want may not be willing to make the time commitment a moderator position requires. There is actually a considerable amount of work that occurs behind the scenes that ensures the forum continues to run smoothly.
 
I think there advantages to PR .com that stop people from leaving. That should be enough to stop the HR on their site from going down. I think a better BL section will help new users as well. Especially if the wonder over to BL through links in PR reports.

I see we differ on this. But yeah, I see your point also. However I feel there may be a shift in HR effectiveness on both sites, however if more resources of HR are introduces the global HR value must increase!
 
Agreed - This is a common feature on almost every other forum I've been a member of or moderated, an automatic system to send the user a PM when a post is deleted/moved/edited etc.

Unfortunately this isn't a feature of vBulletin so we'd have to look at a plug-in or something custom written. I'll put it on the list to look at.

Seconded - The ability to do more in-depth analysis of street sample substances would be a great boost to the net bluelight HR sphere of influence. Perhaps working hand-in-hand with a private path lab, or even a sympathetic university department on a case-by-case basis, where the appropriate BL 'ambassador' could contact those with the equipment and know-how to run GCMS, NMR or TLC examinations.

This is something phase_dancer has been involved with in the past, I don't think there's enough people in the country, associated with BL and with the right connections to run something like this right now. Maybe P_D can drop in and let us know... :)
 
^ I really don't think that is a real thread dude, couldn't tell if your joking or just drunk or something.

This thread has seriously gone way off topic, the petty insults aren't going to make this site better for anyone and if you guys have problems with eachother either keep it to PMs or keep it to yourselves.

I have to agree with sykik on the PIR subforum, I think that the average BL user is more educated than the average PR user. PR would still function but I don't see why on BL there shouldn't be more deicated to identifying pills, I don't use pills anymore but I do notice alot less PIRs and alot less replies to the ones that get put up.

I also think either a media subforum or just posting news articles in DiTM would be a good way to unclutter the forum. There are some articles like warnings of PMA pills that serve a HR purpose but aside from that they are just interesting to read but don't offer any HR benefit and theres no real reason for them to clutter up this forum.

Obviously I spend a fair bit of time over in DiTM, I have always wondered why so many peoples articles get posted here but then not over there. It just makes a lot more sense to keep the articles together. If people REALLY can't be bothered checking DiTM to see if theres any Australian related articles then a sub forum would do the job.

I can see where people argue for prices but at the end of the day I think its detrimental to this site. It is important that bluelight maintains as good an image as possible and blatant price discussion definately tarnishes its credibility imho.

In regards to lil_angel, I wasn't gonna say anything but I have a few drinks in me so fuck it. I think alot of you are letting personal shit cloud your judgement and not looking at it objectively at all. I cannot think of many people at all that put as much effort into this site as she does, there is alot of work going on behind the scenes and just because you see her askign alot of people to stick to guidelines and/or closing threads it doesn't mean thats all she does. Even if it was, so what? Somebody has to be the bad guy here and make sure this site doesn't deteriorate to shite, which is exactly what would happen if there wasn't people like lil_angel around to clean it up.

In regards to the input of mods in general, I notice myself that since getting my mod stick I haven't been posting as much, there are just other things to do. When you are meant to be reading through each and every post in your forum you don't always have time to pick and choose the threads that interest you and write out a long, thoughtful response. You certainly have less time to cruise over to forums that you don't mod and have a look around. Its pretty easy to criticize but if you think YOU can do better then why don't you apply and maybe contribute something.
 
I agree with drug_mentor re media threads. As long as they have an AUS tag, they should be in DITM. As a researcher, I often use BL to check media mentions of specific drug topics alongside Google News and academic media databases.

I'd say prior to implementation of such a thread - a small study on what people commonly pay for drugs should be carried out in a survey, and averages used so as to avoid dicksizing. And this should probably be updated yearly. This would stop people being ripped off, and in turn stop violence as a result

This needs responding to. This is already happening and the information is already available to you. Once a year about 800 ecstasy users are interviewed across Australia for the EDRS research study and reports are available online, usually only 6 months after the interviews.

The most recent one from 2009 just came out and has median prices for common party drugs across different states: here's the link (pdf)

Doctor War doesn't have any real input into the forum, even his post count makes that clear

Ah this made me laugh. As if low count = low quality of input. Thankfully, it's a little bit more complex than that. (I stand in solidarity with the low post count moderators!) ;)

PS. great thread overall and good idea mods for asking the question. %)
 
^Very interesting read.. perhaps the mods should quote all that info, and make a sticky - therefore leaving no need for any kind of price discusson - most of the figures were spot on with what i've seen in the real world.
 
I agree with drug_mentor re media threads. As long as they have an AUS tag, they should be in DITM. As a researcher, I often use BL to check media mentions of specific drug topics alongside Google News and academic media databases.

To be honest I mostly stick to the Aus part of BL and only wander in other areas occasionally. I think if news was not in Aus area I probably wouldn't read it.
 
i think this thread is counter-productive, the mods don't think theres a problem with the forum, and if it aint broke, dont fix it.

simple solution to all this rubbish.
 
Using your logic, anything functional should not be improved?

The mods don't think there is a problem, they think it needs improving, as does everything..
 
I do think that it is about time the thread was closed, it is starting to break down, good input has been given and taken.

Let's wrap it up people!!
 
At long last.....thank you lil

After receiving little input from mods on my previous efforts to get the ball rolling here this thread comes at an interesting time. Some time ago I prepared a letter which I intended to send to our mods. After much mulling over, for several reasons I decided not to send it, and to instead just quietly retreat away - thus my recent absence. So, now the topic has been raised and some good responses received, here’s that letter with a few changes made to reflect a broader audience.

I refer a lot of people to this forum (Aus DD), but nowadays, after looking over the front page, most don't seem to feel inclined to sign up, and when they do, they often only post once or twice. Some of these people would have been great assets to this place- well qualified and/or experienced, yet instead of signing up here, they often go to other forums and focus their efforts there.
So, I think we need to address a range of issues, including the direction both this forum (and perhaps BL as a whole) is taking.

First and foremost, Harm Reduction needs to become the focus again, and not merely drug related news articles and 2 line meaningless posts that currently form the basis of many Aus DD threads.

News articles are still important, only they need to form a lesser percentage of forum content. Threads with no HR value need to be discouraged. From the casual cruiser and potential signup’s perspective, these sorts of posts depict a less than reliable forum, and certainly not one representative of safer drug use practices. Even the phrase harm reduction only appears twice on the front page and that's in small print.

Media: In my humble opinion, consideration should be given towards grouping all news articles under 2 or 3 titles. The exception would be warnings on specific drugs such as PMA, and perhaps some research based articles where the thread title would not necessarily start with NEWS:

Another possibility is that general news articles about drugs be posted in the DiTM. A sticky could be created in Aus DD with links to relevant threads in DiTM, with additional related posts added to as they are posted. A further idea involves grouping news reports in Aus DD but creating a new thread each month. To avoid the fragmentation of stories, links to related posts/ threads could be included at the bottom of a story.

As things currently stand, in respect to drug related news, I really think when the first five or so threads are news articles, many would be readers/contributors see those and move on. It’s simply not what they are seeking. Once upon a time most regular posters were prepared to generate interesting threads, complete with references and/or explanations. Why is it that other forums attract these posters when Aus DD no longer does, or barely does? What happened?

I could write pages on this - and probably already have, but it seems it mostly falls on deaf ears. It's not to suggest this place should be only for the elite drug users, supporters, critics etc that have 10 or more letters after their names. Not at all, but there needs to be a few of these people present IMO, simply because many forum cruisers are looking for well presented information, not just a "I take five every time I drop, or my MDMA is always pure" mentality which is currently seen to prevail. Around the time I took on the position as a mod, there was a concerted effort to steer things away from that type of post/thread.

In saying that, changing times must be reflected in the way any forum grows. Still, it might be worthwhile revisiting past times to see what sort of posts and topics correlated with the most sign ups – I’m talking about Aus DD posters here - that's if these posts haven't all been deleted due to space saving.
Which brings me to that. It appears I’m not alone in my concern of the spring clean deleting of older posts. On Blacklight, it’s clear others share this concern, but thankfully the ADD archive has now been mirrored. I know this topic is more for admin, and I’m sure hoptis and team have well discussed the options available. Still, it is obvious some of BL’s best are unhappy with this situation and are spending more time elsewhere.

Perhaps the lack of sign ups recently is simply due to the fact BL, in general, isn't competitively motivated. This is definitely more relevant today than 10 years ago when we first kicked off. DD forums have to be competitive, as new forums are springing up everywhere and others have improved dramatically in the last 12 months or so. The competitive edge is gained not only through site layout, but also post quality and the all important mentor thing.

As has been said previously, if you want to bring in new members, you have to continue to appeal to a wide readership, and you must look to constantly expanding that readership, which means regularly introducing new ideas and material, and leading by (continued) example through posting good stuff. I’ll just add here that madmick has made some excellent posts lately. Quality posts with references; just what’s needed.

Another issue, also very important to attracting potential members is non-judgment. Recently there have been instances (no names) where such opinions have been expressed by those who should instead keep their thoughts for off site or private discussion. I’ll say no more here, but I’d suggest everyone have a think about this. None of us are perfect and emotions often get the better of us, so that also needs to be taken into account if guidelines on this are to be changed or created – which I believe should happen.

So aside from the above points, I’d like to make some suggestions on a few possibilities for thread topics.

As has been mentioned recently by face__, how about something in depth on addiction? Aside from listing professional services, perhaps we could also look at what drugs became too much for you and how did you beat them? Let’s try to find some success stories that can help others in similar situations.
If we are to have a social thread, let’s make it something worthwhile. I can’t see anything of value in the current social thread/s. IMO, if this stuff needs to be said, take it facebook etc. Note: I haven’t looked over recent edits so perhaps things have been improved.

Let’s endeavour to show a different face to the usual stereotype and promote the responsible drug user/ supporter.

What about a drug users kitchen thread. No, not how to cook up drugs :\, but instead, a what do you cook thread with recipes on everything from a dinner party banquet to preparation and recovery meals; something that focuses on nutrition and drug use. Few things serve to normalise responsible drug use better than demonstrating how users that are aware of, and prioritize their nutritional needs.

We also need more on sensible HR. Threads/posts advising large doses really degrades the whole feel of the place. We should also be looking at the upcoming festival season and how we might best address that with some sensible age old but still relevant HR advice. I’d really like to see any quality HR threads tagged as such, to be evaluated by user or moderator vote, or both. We don’t need a 1-10 rating, simply a bright blue star or similar for those threads that are constructive and display a high HR content. Therefore, concise guidelines as to what does or does not constitute a worthy thread need to be established, but only after careful thought.

I’d like to also add that I believe the codeine extraction etc threads are really out of place. Full on source and synthesis discussion would possibly be less consequential than those discussions have been. CWE is such a simple process it could be thoroughly addressed in a single post. As it is, we have BLers and ex Blers who perhaps wouldn’t be in their current situations if not for the ongoing rants on dosage- effects, ease of availability, etc. From a mods perspective, shouldn’t the merits of a thread have a strong bearing on it's lifetime? If so, then the codeine threads should have been closed long ago imho.

So, that’s about my bloomin’ lot. My Harm Reduction - Where do we go from here? post didn’t seem to “wiggle the worm” at all, so I hope this thread does create the changes so desperately needed here. I’ve tried not to aim this directly at anyone in particular, and the immense appreciation I have for what the mods do here has been stated many times. It’s just, for some time now I’ve seen a great need to fire up the burners and get things moving again. Even if I’m not to be such a regular contributor anymore, I'd like nothing more than to to see the HR of bluelight once again become the focus.


From a less Jaded than faded p_d
 
I also think either a media subforum or just posting news articles in DiTM would be a good way to unclutter the forum. There are some articles like warnings of PMA pills that serve a HR purpose but aside from that they are just interesting to read but don't offer any HR benefit and theres no real reason for them to clutter up this forum.

Obviously I spend a fair bit of time over in DiTM, I have always wondered why so many peoples articles get posted here but then not over there. It just makes a lot more sense to keep the articles together. If people REALLY can't be bothered checking DiTM to see if theres any Australian related articles then a sub forum would do the job.

The creation of an Australian centric news sub-forum is something that presents a variety of issues that need to be considered prior to its possible implementation. The primary issue is taking away from the forward movement of DiTM and discussion surrounding these issues will ensue in both the DiTM staff thread and have already commenced at the Administrative level. There are positives with centralising all media coverage surrounding drugs but it could also be counterproductive and ultimately take way from some of the more interesting discussion that occurs within AusDD.

Although, strictly speaking, all news articles belong in the DiTM forum - the inclusion of so many articles has the potential to actually take away from the discussion that occurs within. A lot of the articles would simply drop off the front page without participation, simply clogging up the front page of DiTM, as not many Australians venture outside AusDD. In saying this, however, there's also the potential that some AusDD regulars may spread their wings and venture outside their comfort zone, which is AusDD, and start participating in other areas of Bluelight.

^Very interesting read.. perhaps the mods should quote all that info, and make a sticky - therefore leaving no need for any kind of price discusson - most of the figures were spot on with what i've seen in the real world.

The guidelines don't restrict the posting of articles or published research that contain prices, they simply restrict the posting of individual or encountered prices. This discussion serves no real purpose other than to reassure individuals that they're not being ripped off or to big note their connections. It invariably leads to dicksizing, comments about how someone is getting ripped off and people trying to secure better connections.

If the research paper provided by Tronica above was posted then there would be no moderation of the published data. If, however, the thread derailed and was overtaken with specific price discussion then that discussion would be moderated.

i think this thread is counter-productive, the mods don't think theres a problem with the forum, and if it aint broke, dont fix it.

simple solution to all this rubbish.

This thread is far from being counterproductive, quite the opposite actually!!!

The issues raised in this discussion have already been included in the staff development discussion and some of the changes outside the power of the AusDD staff have been forwarded for consideration by the Administrative staff. If you believe the forward movement of AusDD is 'rubbish' then there is nothing forcing you to participate in this thread. If, however, you want to be part of the improvements made, then this is your opportunity to put your 2c forward.
 
nice one P_D,

to be honest i thave throught that this forum was getting less and less harm reduction oriented over the last few months; im not sure if earlier on in the piece moderating was the central focus for brining the discussions back to HR value but im sure that it contributed to the focus.

One thing that has been really noticable is thaqt people posting are forgetting about the blue light user agreements and thread rules; which i hoped would encourage debate in the HR direction. Some times (i'll own this personally) i find it hard to engage with lets get fucked up posts and try to reason that HR is a real value to this person; after reading a heap of other posts by the same poster outlining how cool they think they are for whipping themselves- i figure i'll see them anyway in my professional life as an AOD worker.

What you mention about a sense of solidarity and identity as a drug user has definately changed over the last few years. I remember that was one of the most important parts of early bluelight- having a place where people could discuss things without prejudice- i guess that alot of the debate and fight about this ignored when XTC use became hidden in plain sight in the early 00's.

i think that ADD should take a look at the demographical data of the users here and maybe even pitch differnt types of levels of users- taking a stratified approach to the approaching the forum

say - newbies to ADD, some knowledge and advanced drug discussion
 
p_d is dead on the ball.. my comments re: if it aint broke dont fix it - go toward the mods who can't take criticism from their peers.

The HR presence of this forum since 03' or so when i first came along has decreased - and the social aspect has risen - giving rise to a more tightknit group of users, but defeating the purpose of the forum none the less. These theories were proven with things like The Perth Raids, which i doubt would happen again, given we don't really allow people to organize meetups and stuff anymore as a result.

That said, HR tactics commonly employed years ago are alot harder to use, given people have devised ways to cause false positives on reagent tests - which were the frontline system of harm reduction amongst ecstacy users.

I remember years ago when, i think Johnboy and Cowboy Mac were doing Ion scanning at clubs, which was quickly outlawed by police. Pretty sad really. But if we could get the ball rolling on things like this again - the HR presence would be greatly improved.
 
I don't know if it was simply because of what i was interested in but i seem to remember more talk about pre and post loading for big nights out. These days this isn't such a big topic.

Maybe it's time to run a, "what's your pre and post procedure?". Whether that includes simply eating and sleeping well or a multitude of anti-oxidents, 5htp and other vits. I know back when i started taking pills and visiting this site it played a huge impact in me setting up my own routine.
 
madmick19 said:
to be honest i thave throught that this forum was getting less and less harm reduction oriented over the last few months; im not sure if earlier on in the piece moderating was the central focus for brining the discussions back to HR value but im sure that it contributed to the focus.

I think it did, but then again I'm biased ;) Seriously though, I think there were more "tools in the box" a few years ago. Not only were we establishing a fast growing and well respected board, but participation was far and wide. We had Enlighten doing all manner of projects and outreach. We had JB and drplatypus in the media. Negative press, while it occasionally occurred, probably didn't create a negative impression generally. If anything, it probably attracted more attention and interest, and dare I say it, even some respect. Of course we had Beneath the Mirror Ball, which brought home to some that admitting drug use could have serious consequences, but by and large the public response was less negative. We had You, JB and I think a couple of other Bluelighters appear on Insight on SBS, standing up to the likes of Tony Wood, who said something like all users should be treated by the law as they are in Indonesia. All interesting stuff, which no doubt turned a few heads to the potential benefits of HR.

So, apart from the general interest user finding Bluelight by accident, we also had a Harm Reduction beacon steady flashing in those days which saw a relatively high number of regular, constructive posters who were prepared to spend more than a few minutes on a post, and so deliver quality, complete with links, references etc. The attack on Doctor War's low post count shows that some prefer a chat room type environment rather than a more meaningful forum. Social chatter can be included in ADD, but it shouldn't be so extensive that it totally fills a thread. If anyone cares to look at my post count from 1999- ~2003 you'll see that I didn't post all that often at times. IMO high post counts count for little, it's content and to a lesser degree, word count. If post counts were awarded from "worthwhile content" this place would look very different.

A sort of coming of age philosophy existed in the early 2000s, where HR was beginning to achieve strong acceptance from the community at large. Drug use was as widespread as it is today, but the stigma of the average user was different. Responsible users presented themselves as such, and even if all was not as it seemed, their attitudes on the board served to promote responsible use patterns. Today, the landscape has been changed somewhat, mostly through media vilification and the increased attention given by government to hammer home that any and all drug use has consequence. From an AUS perspective, these days drug user support groups such as Bluelight have been made to appear more underground and even sinister by the mere fact they facilitate drug use discussion, even if this is in a HR context.

Consequently, among those concerned with keeping their liberty, there's less immunity felt in giving out HR advice that specifically addresses use practices dosages etc, and other things that under the eyes of the LE could constitute a breech of the law. Once it was widely accepted that relaying one's stories from a personal level could never result in charges being laid. This gray area is far grayer today. Many variables here, but the end result is that the ratio in HR related posts to general chatter changes to reflect the personalities of the quantity contributors. When the proportion is closer to the - somewhat indefinable - ideal, the place almost self moderates.

One thing that has been really noticeable is thaqt people posting are forgetting about the blue light user agreements and thread rules; which i hoped would encourage debate in the HR direction. Some times (i'll own this personally) i find it hard to engage with lets get fucked up posts and try to reason that HR is a real value to this person; after reading a heap of other posts by the same poster outlining how cool they think they are for whipping themselves- i figure i'll see them anyway in my professional life as an AOD worker.

For many, Harm Reduction is as significant a part of this place as the size of the font used on the from page. Your words sum up my feelings entirely and at times I'm completely at a loss as to why I continue to care.

My girl recently exclaimed that she's losing interest in helping people who've got enough money to buy tickets, booze and drugs at festivals and then wind up needing help, when there's so many unfortunate people out there for whom disadvantage is far more than simply the result of lifestyle choice. I have to say, when this place was thriving, HR was on everyone's lips. Sure people overindulged, but there was a greater knowledge among groups, and people did tend to be aware of the dangers more than they are today.

Whatever end of the HR definition spectrum you subscribe to, Harm Reduction in it's essence is prevention. Whether that's abstaining completely, or minimising the risk, it's all under the same umbrella imo. Posts that recommend practices that are less safe should be highly discouraged. No, there isn't clear cut rules to what is safer, and debate on this is healthy stuff, but some things are definitely more dangerous and certainly don't represent a HR approach.

What you mention about a sense of solidarity and identity as a drug user has definately changed over the last few years. I remember that was one of the most important parts of early bluelight- having a place where people could discuss things without prejudice- i guess that alot of the debate and fight about this ignored when XTC use became hidden in plain sight in the early 00's.

Good Point. I'm not sure that completely explains why there is so much contempt shown towards others' preferences etc. and I don't wish to indicate specific examples here, but from what I see, a good many comments are made in relation to media articles or responses to them. A lot of these stories stir up emotions in us all, and so it's quite natural for expression to run wild. However, it doesn't help those who shy away from this board because such comments touched a nerve, so perhaps we need to examine the root cause in relation to thread/post topics.

i think that ADD should take a look at the demographical data of the users here and maybe even pitch differnt types of levels of users- taking a stratified approach to the approaching the forum

say - newbies to ADD, some knowledge and advanced drug discussion

That's a really good idea. How would you structure this, with different threads?

Unfortunately this isn't a feature of vBulletin so we'd have to look at a plug-in or something custom written. I'll put it on the list to look at.



This is something phase_dancer has been involved with in the past, I don't think there's enough people in the country, associated with BL and with the right connections to run something like this right now. Maybe P_D can drop in and let us know... :)

There are moves about to attempt to provide a service to analyse OTC products. Whether this will get off the ground is anyone's guess atm. I can't comment on whether such a system, if it was approved, would extend to testing illicits. One thing for sure is the red tape would be massive. More when it's known.



Just for the record, my vote on the following:

1) lil_angel15 stays

2) No prices ( apart from perhaps those included in referenced articles)

If you think there is no HR value in pill prices you are wrong.

The countless times I've heard young users shopping around for the best deal with no testers.
They could be getting a $30 pill that is MDMA where as pipes are normally bought in quantities of 1000+ by dealers as they're a couple of dollars and sold for 10-20 IN clubs even. I mean you'd be a bad pipe dealer to be selling $2 shit at $25-30. Because they need to get rid of them in a week and profit up for more.


I'm sorry but I just don't how listing the regular price for something is more effective than properly educating people on how to discern one drug from another, and more importantly, on the risks associated with sourcing illicit substances, particularly from strangers. FWIW, I've heard of E going for peanuts at different times over the years. Many variables here, and price is certainly not a dependable guideline. Conversely, substitutes often sell for the same as the real thing. Same applies to most other drugs. Good heroin has killed it's fair share, simply because people buy a new batch at around the same price of the old, only the purity is much higher.

Price discussion opens a can of worms every time. IMO there's no need for it. We're not here to provide a "best for less guide to buying drugs"

I remember years ago when, i think Johnboy and Cowboy Mac were doing Ion scanning at clubs, which was quickly outlawed by police. Pretty sad really. But if we could get the ball rolling on things like this again - the HR presence would be greatly improved.

It never quite got this far. We were researching the possibility of using portable ion scanners, and mention was made by Cowboy Mac, at the Club Health Sydney conference iirc, but due to it being picked up by someone of authority who was attending, the company in question was instructed not to supply the device. Anyway, it wouldn't have done what was required anyway. Other instrumentation was looked at and raman spec was closely looked at and reviewed by a forensic department which had previously worked alongside Enlighten at Enchanted.

I don't know if it was simply because of what i was interested in but i seem to remember more talk about pre and post loading for big nights out. These days this isn't such a big topic.

Maybe it's time to run a, "what's your pre and post procedure?". Whether that includes simply eating and sleeping well or a multitude of anti-oxidents, 5htp and other vits. I know back when i started taking pills and visiting this site it played a huge impact in me setting up my own routine.

Great Idea. However, there's been lots of developments over the last few years, some of which don't lend support to the notion that certain supplements make MDMA safer. Any such threads need to present all sides of the argument, rather than paint a picture that if you take a few of these and one of those, MDMA can't hurt you. Still, I'd like to see some stickies on this for the upcoming festive season.



I'd also like to briefly express my view here on a matter currently being discussed in Advanced DD. This concerns whether some compounds are too dangerous to discuss. The main argument put forward by Vecktor is that unscrupulous manufacturers are seeing the compounds mentioned here and then offering the product without first researching it's safety. Such is the concern that some posters are no longer willing to share their thoughts here.

I will explain my position in more detail in that thread if and when I get time, but for now I'll say that I think it's important this type of discussion does continue and is not over moderated (banned due to such concerns). This has to do with many things, not least the impact it might have on medical professionals attempting to identify a new or novel drug related to a hospital presentation. As mentioned earlier, Bluelight is not the only player in drug discussion. We have some great pharmacological minds here, but great minds are not exclusive to Bluelight....
 
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