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Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v2; 2010

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One thing I still don't understand about buprenorphine is why the withdrawls kick in so much faster when administered via injection. I mean, it makes sense that it lasts shorter, but I feel like it's drastically shorter than sublingual. I was attributing this previously to the fact that I've only been on my current low dose for a little over 3 weeks, but subdude informed me that the previous higher dosages should be completely out of my system, and that I should be adjusted to the 1 mg/day. Does this happen with everyone on a low dosage, no matter what the ROA? For instance, does someone who takes a sublingual dosage of 1 mg wake up sick the next morning? I'd be interested to hear peoples experiences.
 
my guess would be no and it would depend on the person and dose required/taken, someone who sublingualed 1mg the effects would last longer because it is absorbed much slower than someone who IV'd it or snorted it, just because it is absorbed more quickly by your body (hence faster onset) so it only makes sense that it leaves the body faster also.. that's all i can think of
 
fm1983 said:
^ No, but my nose runs for ages afterwords.
Click to expand...

try pinching your nose shut and tilt your head back (not far enough back for it to run down your throat, but kinda in the middle of coming out the front or dripping down the back, and hold it there for a couple minutes to let it all absorb and that should help. if not than, sorry can't help ya :\
 
Znegative said:
One thing I still don't understand about buprenorphine is why the withdrawls kick in so much faster when administered via injection. I mean, it makes sense that it lasts shorter, but I feel like it's drastically shorter than sublingual. I was attributing this previously to the fact that I've only been on my current low dose for a little over 3 weeks, but subdude informed me that the previous higher dosages should be completely out of my system, and that I should be adjusted to the 1 mg/day. Does this happen with everyone on a low dosage, no matter what the ROA? For instance, does someone who takes a sublingual dosage of 1 mg wake up sick the next morning? I'd be interested to hear peoples experiences.
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zneg, i am on the exact same daily dose of iv bupe as you, and ive been stabilized at 1mg a day for at least a few months. it takes me 24 hours to actually feel any sort of shitty, i might get a few yawns after 12. but my friends who shoot bupe (they shoot prob about 4mg a day) they claim to experience withdrawl after 6-8 hours. its weird because i am a skinny dude and really young id think my metabolism would be fast.
 
Suboxone Use

Hey All,

I have been doing suboxone for about a week-- coming off a 150mg/day 2 1/2 year OC habit.

I was prescribed 8mg 3 times a day-- WAY more than I needed thank god. I got 42 subs from my doctor the first visit and I have been getting away with 1 1/2mg a day or so. I am greatfull that the suboxone has given me a safer, less expensive alternative than OC addiction and I feel like I have my life under more control now and can try to slowly taper off of the SUBS easier than I could the OC.

On the other hand, I am not 100% satisfied with the way subs make me feel. Although they quell my withdrawals, they give me an uncomfortable stimulant sensation and make me anxious and I just feel off on them... I feel like my mind isnt the same on them or something and its kind of upsetting. Does anyone else get weird side effects from SUBS that they didnt get on their DOC? I am used to a nighttime dose of oxy to get to sleep, and i tried to replicate that with my subs and I ended up laying in bed anxious with a thumping heart. It sucked.... I have been taking xanax every night just to sleep and relax at night since I started subs, and I have a very limited supply of these :(

Anyone have similar feelings towards their subs? Is this a "Getting adjusted" thing? I am going to ask my sub psych. for some xanax on our appointment Thurs, but I am scared they wont give it to me. If anyone can comment on their experience with subs and it's side effects, i'd be interested to hear it.

Lastly--- anyone have experience using short-term opiates like vicodins to get through a sub withdrawal? I know the long withdrawal can be taxing, and heard low doses of short acting opiates can help for a more successful recovery. If done properly, maybe it is the best way? Who here has the will power to do that properly though =-\

Sub Dude - To answer your ?, my goal is to quit but it is a very difficult road to me as everyone knows. To be honest, I got sick of the anxiety and bought some OC and attempted to relapse after not doing ti for 24 hours and all it did is get rid of the slight withdrawal I had from not taking subs for 24 hours. My last dose of sub was 1mg or so and I sniffed it. Im probably gonna do the rest tommorow and see if I get high, and be back on subs by night. I guess that's gonna delay things... I guess the biggest problem is that once I quit subs, the withdrawal is so long from what I hear, it will be really hard to resist cravings for drugs.
 
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jaystyle, it's hard for everyone to adjust to suboxone. don't be hard on yourself for relapsing on OC, I've relapsed thousands of times litterally. I really don't think it's a good idea to take xanax, because all though it might let you sleep, calm you down etc, isn't that really just the same as getting addicted all over again? And xanax withdrawls are horrible, and there's no suboxone to save you from that.

I know your in a sticky situation, and you probably don't honestly know what you want to do about your using. I think that you should stick with the suboxone for a little while, I know you havn't been on it for long. If you stay on a dose of 2 mg or less per day, you'll also be able to get high over it. I only mention this, because sometimes it can help the transition to use everyone once and a while, and the great thing about having subs around, is you don't have to go through horrible withdrawls!
 
^^^ I agree that Jaystyle should be very careful about not getting addicted to xanax - benzo withdrawal is hideous. However, to detox from xanax, librium for 3-4 days works well.

Day 2 no sub for me... a little shitty feeling, but not bad at all. I pray it doesn't get too bad... Kratom helps a little though. But kratom's duration of effect is so damn short, and I'm already getting sick of swallowing toilet paper packets full of kratom. Whatever helps though...

Fuck opiates... I love how they make me feel, but they aren't a good friend.
 
or just pour the kratom in a glass with water and stir it up real good and chug that shit.. then all the residue on the glass get off with running water and chug that shit too.. continue till it's gone. it really doesn't taste that bad.
 
jaystyle, i get the same feeling on subs last time i took one very energetic, almost too speedy felt like running through a wall (at least wd stopped), try some kava or some herbs like skullcap, hops, chamomile,valerian, instead of benzos, or at least alter days, to avoid benzo dependence. have you tried kratom?

ok, now kratom has been a blessing for me, i have actually just been taking that instead of subs for the past week on and off, i am using zen2 kratom, no sourcing allowed but google it, i tried bali and it just took too much, but this zen2, 3-4 grams keeps me good for about 5-6 hours, and actually provides some euphoria, now again, so far this is the only strain that really helped. but in all reality i kinda almost prefer it to oc in some ways.
I really dont know if it will work while on subs, i will be trying that soon, but it works great in place of it, so if you want a break from subs and a buzz give it a go.
I have also tried 5-htp, DL-phenylanine, and most recently Black seed oil

5-htp, seems to help alot with anxiety and be a little relaxing i still wake up feeling kinda sick, but not waking in a full blown panic attack on top of it.

DL-phenlyananine similar effects to 5-htp

Black Seed Oil, beats the pants off gfj, DL, or tagament for potentiation of oc, and by itself lessens wd to a noticeable degree it doesn't eliminate it, but sure helps, and seems it would be VERY helpful in tapering down on subs, or to help pwd after stopping subs. there have been several studies that seem to confirm this.

Has anyone tried salvia nemerosa i have been reading alot about it and sounds very promising and i am in the process of obtaining some. but according to some reports i have read can be very helpful.
 
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When skipping days doing a sub taper is it possible to take a valium or/and tramadol?..For example if i go on .2mgs of subutex but take it every other day then during the missed days can i take a benzo and tram?..Not everyday but whenever i skip days on sub. So far am on 1mgs of Subutex. Hasnt been a problem tapering from 12mgs. Then again i went slow too. If i cut by 0.2mgs every week or so and skip days at my lowest dose i.e 2mg temgesic then would have less of a hard time regarding withdrawals and paws? mind u i excercise quite a lot.

I also have comfort meds such as lofexidine zopiclone valium lorezepam dihydrocodeine cocodamol dihydrocodeine temazepam ambien (stilnoct) quinine-sulphate naprexen and tramadol. Also trazadone too. Which of these do u folks think will help with sub withdrawals? would i even need them if i do a slow taper. I do have 0.4mg and 0.2mg tablets of Subutex so shud make tapering easier right?. But as to my first Question if i take a benzo when i dont take my subutex then would that help me?

thanks.
 
^The benzos, you can take to supplement your taper, but I recommend you use them only as needed to avoid a nasty addiction.

You said you have dihydrocodeine at your disposal, and I would switch to that once your dose of bupe gets down to 0.2mg or so (possibly before this point). DHC can be used like kratom, as a weak opiate in replacement of bupe so that you do not get the protracted withdrawal symptoms that bupe causes. Just be sure to take only the amount you need to avoid getting back on a higher dose of opiates!
 
Thanks for the reply!.

I have about 90 tablets of DCH at my disposol. They are 30mgs. Would i feel these if i take them when am on 0.2mg of bup? because they say Sub blocked opiates such as these?..Would 90 tablets be enough to use? say for 3 weeks?..Also what is a good taper plan for Dihydrocodeine?. Sorry am not too familiar with opiates such as this. Only heroin and Subutex. I hardly even take benzos though i got about 200 tabs of 10mg valium and lorezepam etc lol.

Also is it possible to alternate between DHC and tramadol? meaning take DCH for few days and then take tramadol for few days?..for about week weeks. Also is cocodomol really any different to codien itself? i mean would it be any harm if i took cocodamol for few weeks too or alternated with Tram and DCH?

I was planning to use DCH after jumping from 0.2mg bup and then using the Lofexidine after using the DHC? is that ok?

cheers!....
 
^That sounds good. 0.2mg bupe isn't going to block any opiate from binding, though it may muddle the effects of the other opiate you take with it. Just take enough DHC to alleviate the symptoms and drop that by the amount you are comfortable dropping at a rate you are comfortable with. You're trying to avoid the withdrawal symptoms by taking just enough DHC to get by, and decreasing that amount over time. I can't give you exact numbers, but the idea is really more important than a strict timetable. Just go slowly, avoiding serious withdrawal symptoms but being careful not to get addicted to the DHC in the meantime!

Good luck, and be sure to ask if you have any more questions?
 
I have a question, I dose at .2 mg I.V roughly 5 times a day. my withdrawls kick in around 6 hours after each shot taken. If I were to somehow obtain this DHC, would it be useful with the amount I'm using (subs?) The reason I ask this is because I know that .2 I.V is a lot different than .2 sublingual, but then again, the duration is a lot shorter. I've heard it's real hard to really compare the two ROA, but if anyone has experience, I would be interested.
 
Thanks for info Raz---

I tried some Kratom awhile ago--- I bought some extract and thought it felt nice, but it seems a bit expensive to use to manage someone with a real opiate tolerance =-\ Cost effectively, i'd probably be better popping a few vicodins it seems.

Kratom may be a healthier, more natural alternative--- do people ever get addicted to Kratom? How similar does it effect your brain to opiates? Any info on this would be helpful--- And this is in regards to tapering / switching off from SUB use so it IS related to topic =P
 
^People do get addicted, but w/d is quite mild compared to opiate usage - I used it for a month or two and didn't feel any w/d symptoms. And yeah, for the price hydro's cheaper. And tastier.:\

Imo this is a good explanation of how kratom works.

Someone mentioned chugging kratom...this is the most effective way to take it; just make sure you can stand the taste before you dump it in a glass. If you want to drink it but don't like the taste, try mixing it with drinkable yogurt.

Looks like we're gonna need a kratom thread pretty soon. :)
 
destiny_days said:
When skipping days doing a sub taper is it possible to take a valium or/and tramadol?
Click to expand...

I last dosed suboxone (1.5mg) on Sunday. I used 200mg tramadol (2x 100mg seperate doses a few hrs apart) and some xanax on Monday, made it through the day godlike. Yesterday, used 100mg of tramadol (one dose) and xanax, and once again, I felt amazing. No sort of w/d symptoms at all, felt like I was on cloud nine all day. And I am not a hug tramadol fan, but it worked phenomenally well this past couple days. I used oxy today (day off of work treat), but I was able to maintain without any problems on a low dose of tramadol and xanax those few days. I plan on doing this for majority of my suboxone use now, since it worked so well. Use suboxone for a few days, followeed by some tramadol, and then lower my sub dose after a few days on the tramadol/xanax combo. Rinse & repeat.
 
I just wanted to give an update on Black Seed Oil (nigella sativa),now I have been back and forth from using subs, oc's and or kratom to work my tolerance down and taper off.(right now my focus is to avoid H) so today i took 2 tsp black seed oil, then took 3/4 of what i would normally take of oc, well it worked notably better and longer than my normal dose would have. then when i was starting to feel sick i took another tsp, and it relieved about 50% of symptoms and lifted my mood a bit. i am anxious to try this while taking subs, will report back on that.

Nigella sativa seed has opioid action and antinociceptive effects when studied on mice, the antinociceptive effects were reversed by naloxone. The antinociceptive effect of morphine was significantly reduced in thymoquinone- and N. sativa oil-tolerant mice, but not vice versa. N. sativa oil and thymoquinone produce antinociceptive effects through indirect activation of the supraspinal μ1- and κ-opioid receptor subtypes.

here is the link to this study in full

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T1J-40NG390-C&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=52e1d18f2d844264756ccbad7afcf906

So for anyone tapering off subs, or anything else or looking for something to help paws after suboxone, i strongly encourage you to give this a try. I also gave a tsp of the oil to a friend with no tolerance and they loved it, definite mood lift and sense of well being, not unlike opiates, just not near as powerful.
maybe this and 5-htp or DL-phenylanine could really help deal with sub wd, and or paws.

jay my tolerance is about the same as yours, as far as the kratom goes, so far the only one that i was impressed with was the zen2 which 3-4grams worked very well, which costs me about 2$ a dose. i cant get hydro that cheap. the bali was way too weak to be cost effective. and the extracts are almost never worth it. except eui i am told, (that should be here tomorrow, too expensive to use daily just a treat)
 
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