I heard Scotland is ahead of the game in the Uk. Anyone else here this?
Perhaps it was cannabis or drugs in general
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MDMA &
Empathogenic
Drugs
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What is wrong with the MDMA available today? - v2
- Thread starter Le Junk
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Perhaps it was cannabis or drugs in general
if y'all aren't fighting you're jumping to insane conclusions on both sides
Hilopsilo
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Totally. Talk about another touchy subject... i read on here many years ago a post vaguely about the depressing reality of how aging ravers/party ppl/drug users will move towards dopaminergic drugs, instant gratification in this way, a general lack of required commitment to the experience, etc. and I'm totally seeing this play out amongst my friends as we all approach 30. I don't blame them for this, I think its mostly societal. My own inclination to immerse myself & let go is impeded by ever increasing life responsibilities, uncertainties & less opportunities.
Coke, I don't even have to get into that, K just seems to render ppl rather emotionless at the rave... Gladly GHB dried up and i think ppl realized it's just horny problematic alcohol. I try not to pass judgment or anything, but unfortunately I like all my friends better when they're not on K/coke/amongst other things.
I've coined the wook flip as Ketamine, juul, and as many beers as you can keep down
indigoaura
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Super interesting links @G_Chem.
I feel like the Drugs Data links beg the question, are they discovering these byproducts because the byproducts are new, or because they just recently obtained the standards to test for that particular chemical?
When I was in correspondence with Drugs Data, way back, they were in the process of adding a bunch of standards to their database so they could expand what they tested for.
As for the isomers, maybe it is the older MDMA that was a slightly different ratio than 50/50. Maybe what we currently think is "meh" is a reduced S isomer. No idea. I would love more data. It would be great to try the separate isomers and try different ratios and really figure out the sweet spot.
As for legality, it is getting FDA approved here in the USA in 2023, and I read that in Canada penalties are already reduced.
In other news, I have a new sample that is 100% clear. Never seen MDMA like this before, only seen it in pics. Reagent results were PURPLE/Black for Marquis and Instant Cobalt on Simon's. Looks beautiful.
I feel like the Drugs Data links beg the question, are they discovering these byproducts because the byproducts are new, or because they just recently obtained the standards to test for that particular chemical?
When I was in correspondence with Drugs Data, way back, they were in the process of adding a bunch of standards to their database so they could expand what they tested for.
As for the isomers, maybe it is the older MDMA that was a slightly different ratio than 50/50. Maybe what we currently think is "meh" is a reduced S isomer. No idea. I would love more data. It would be great to try the separate isomers and try different ratios and really figure out the sweet spot.
As for legality, it is getting FDA approved here in the USA in 2023, and I read that in Canada penalties are already reduced.
In other news, I have a new sample that is 100% clear. Never seen MDMA like this before, only seen it in pics. Reagent results were PURPLE/Black for Marquis and Instant Cobalt on Simon's. Looks beautiful.
What , the FDA are looking at approving MDMA in 2023?
Hilopsilo
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RE: Philipp Plein, I could be super late here but, actually quite a few recent entries for "MDMA + Synthesis Byproducts" ; https://www.drugsdata.org/results.php?search_field=all&s=Synthesis+Byproducts
Unfortunately, the quantities for the synthesis byproducts are mostly not listed and overall there is a vagueness & inconsistency to the data points given for each sample; "About 40%", "at least 3 present", etc. Varies by lab too. But overall, not exactly micro amounts of byproduct in these samples.
~90% of the entries are no earlier than summer 2018 and are increasing in frequency since. It wouldn't really make sense that all of a sudden MDMA started containing byproducts, so I'm inclined to think this is because they are testing more thoroughly & byproducts have always been commonly present.
https://www.drugsdata.org/view.php?id=9634
"Feb 15 2022: The previously unidentified substance in this sample is likely an impurity from the manufacturing of MDA. (Thanks, A.)
If anyone has suggestions for how to fully identify the synthesis byproduct, let us know! Please use our contact form and include the DrugsData ID (9634) or this URL along with any communications."
I mean, if they gotta ask... 8)
Unfortunately, the quantities for the synthesis byproducts are mostly not listed and overall there is a vagueness & inconsistency to the data points given for each sample; "About 40%", "at least 3 present", etc. Varies by lab too. But overall, not exactly micro amounts of byproduct in these samples.
~90% of the entries are no earlier than summer 2018 and are increasing in frequency since. It wouldn't really make sense that all of a sudden MDMA started containing byproducts, so I'm inclined to think this is because they are testing more thoroughly & byproducts have always been commonly present.
https://www.drugsdata.org/view.php?id=9634
"Feb 15 2022: The previously unidentified substance in this sample is likely an impurity from the manufacturing of MDA. (Thanks, A.)
If anyone has suggestions for how to fully identify the synthesis byproduct, let us know! Please use our contact form and include the DrugsData ID (9634) or this URL along with any communications."
I mean, if they gotta ask... 8)
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unodelacosa
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This checks out. M-Alpha-HMCA is a byproduct of MDMA synthesis when unconverted PMK-glycidate is present. This is very interesting and lends much credence to the hypothesis that the introduction of a new precursor marked the introduction of heavily contaminated MDMA in several markets which may indeed account for experiences of mehDMA. Nice find, G! Thanks for sharing thisWell it seems to be your week you MehDMA believers. Check out this recent analysis on DrugsData showing more byproduct than MDMA present.
DrugsData.org (was EcstasyData): Test Details : Result #12892 - Philipp Plein, 12892
DrugsData (EcstasyData) lab testing resultwww.drugsdata.org
Edit- It appears this press has been around for a minute.
DrugsData.org (was EcstasyData): Test Details : Result #11324 - Philipp Plein, 11324
DrugsData (EcstasyData) lab testing result
-GC
I do believe you guys are right, we aren’t seeing an emergence of new byproducts but more likely a honing of the labs analysis techniques and standards.
Notice when we look at 1996 for example we see this..
www.drugsdata.org
Notice many of which say “unidentified.” Back then there was likely byproducts too but they just had no clue what to look for. On a side note I’ve tried to figure out what that unidentifiable substance is, even by reaching out to DrugsData to no avail. I wonder if it’s n-formyl intermediates.
-GC
Notice when we look at 1996 for example we see this..
DrugsData.org: Search : Lab Test Results for Recreational Drugs
DrugsData.org lab analysis and drug checking results
Notice many of which say “unidentified.” Back then there was likely byproducts too but they just had no clue what to look for. On a side note I’ve tried to figure out what that unidentifiable substance is, even by reaching out to DrugsData to no avail. I wonder if it’s n-formyl intermediates.
-GC
unodelacosa
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Well yes, except that M-Alpha-HMCA is specific to PMK-glycidate, so the unidentifiable substances are not likely this compound. This didn’t hit the market until circa 2015 as a clever workaround to the issue of PMK illegality vis-à-vis shipping & handling. I’m just stating the obvious here, and I realize of course you already know this.
I agree with your guess of n-formyl intermediates based on the ubiquity of the performic acid epoxidation of isosafrole to MDP-2-P. I would also submit there would likely be byproducts resulting from p-benzoquinone Wacker oxidations as well, and MDDMA and MDTMA are likely candidates for byproducts formed during reductive amination with impure methylamine.
unodelacosa
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Planning to bioassay this over the weekend? Quick follow up: and if I may ask, was this locally acquired or another DNM acquisition?
EDIT: Something tells me this one is gonna send you to the moon…
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Oh ya definitely, and I believe the Leuckart was the most prevalent reduction of 90’s which would give n-formyl-MDMA or n-formyl-MDA. (They can come from performic routes too but much less so.)
In the 90’s much of the synthesis was done by already established Amphetamine cooks which used Leuckart primarily. It wasn’t until the late 90’s that production began to branch off into smaller factions utilizing Wacker and Al/Hg more often.
I do know though that MDDMA is common amongst many routes and was found in the early 90’s in ecstasy samples synthesized via Leuckart reduction.
-GC
I can share the link of pihkal for pdf, zhit Is in spanish if anyone wanTs it PM ME
Many countries have good pills/mindblowing MDMA, it's so abundant these days and so cheap too. At least in my city there's a lot of good pills. I've only had bunk or some other rc chrmical like 4 times but way back in 2017. Nowadays the pills are uffffffffff.
unodelacosa
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Quoting from Wikipedia:
In spite of these behavioral and pharmacological similarities between methylone and MDMA, the observed subjective effects of both drugs are not completely identical. Alexander Shulgin wrote of the former:
indigoaura
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Yes. MAPS has funded full FDA studies for MDMA, and it is in phase three studies. Subscribe to the MAPS newsletter to get updates, but the last update they sent out said they anticipated FDA approval in 2023 for PTSD treatment.
indigoaura
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I lost the email address that I used to have at Safemail where I communicated with Drugs Data. However, I would like to think maybe the emails pushed them to look more at the synthesis byproducts. I sent them all the data we had generated, and they even bought the standard for 2,3 MDMA to check for it in their samples.
Maybe I will try reaching out again and sending them a new email.
indigoaura
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This checks out. M-Alpha-HMCA is a byproduct of MDMA synthesis when unconverted PMK-glycidate is present. This is very interesting and lends much credence to the hypothesis that the introduction of a new precursor marked the introduction of heavily contaminated MDMA in several markets which may indeed account for experiences of mehDMA. Nice find, G! Thanks for sharing this
I think we have a link about M-Alpha-HMCA in the introductory post to this thread.
Edited to add - “Identification of a new M-ALPHA analog and 3,4-MDMA in an illegal health product” by Ji Hyun Lee et al. (Lee)
I thought that compound sounded familiar.
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indigoaura
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I need to slow my roll a bit (pun intended). I just rolled back on May 6. Also trying to get some distance from my Xanax prescription, and life is not making that easy.
But it was all I could do not to eat it last night. It looked delicious.
This was actually a DW acquisition, but the option is no longer available, unfortunately. It appeared and was gone. Feel lucky I was even able to grab it. Supposedly a local, USA product and not imported.
AutoTripper
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I believe ketamine treatment is legally "available" here in UK since few years now ftr.
I could really use it too, therapeutically, medicinally for PTSD and much more, I over qualify.
Except it would cost me over £500 and train fare to Cardiff, 6/7 hr journey and another £100, I couldn't even dream of making the journey if everything was free.
Just for one session, one dose, like 100 mg's maybe?
So that is their idea of legal (un)access.
When it should, could be closer to home, affordable and practical.
Legal medical cannabis patients had to and still do really fight through their noses to get access, at economic extortion too and poor quality.
So I really wouldn't get any hopes up about FDA bringing MDMA to those who need it most.
Nor even view this as a "step in the right direction".
I know that's cynical, but true.
I could really use it too, therapeutically, medicinally for PTSD and much more, I over qualify.
Except it would cost me over £500 and train fare to Cardiff, 6/7 hr journey and another £100, I couldn't even dream of making the journey if everything was free.
Just for one session, one dose, like 100 mg's maybe?
So that is their idea of legal (un)access.
When it should, could be closer to home, affordable and practical.
Legal medical cannabis patients had to and still do really fight through their noses to get access, at economic extortion too and poor quality.
So I really wouldn't get any hopes up about FDA bringing MDMA to those who need it most.
Nor even view this as a "step in the right direction".
I know that's cynical, but true.
indigoaura
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Here in the USA, Ketamine treatment is available in your own home. You can do a virtual visit with a prescribing therapist.