What is wrong with the MDMA available today? - v2

[G_Chem]

No, I got what you were conveying, and I was agreeing with the thesis that there are some major biochemical differences between sexes. These physiological factors are important, and to ignore this would be foolish and fundamentally wrong. Furthermore I’m not uncomfortable discussing these topics at all. Please don’t conflate what I’m saying with snowflake politics. I guess I’m just reiterating the point that it seems like you’re jumping to some conclusions, but what do I know?

I’m reminded of the medical issue / ethics dilemma regarding the fact that pain is a self-reported phenomenon and malingering is a real thing. Entactogenic qualitative effects are complex and personal, like pain. Moreover, it’s not clear to me whether you were saying men rolled harder bc of the oxytocin thing, or if women do bc of the blood serum levels thing. I don’t think that can be determined in any linear manner like we’re attempting to do maybe

My apologies my frustration regarding the silencing of these topics is more general, you are discussing instead of becoming emotional which I appreciate.

I guess I’m saying women are hit harder mg/mg but men get more positive effects overall. I think one reason among a few would be oxytocin sensitivity of males vs females but now that I know the tidbit regarding increased HMMA formation in women I’m sure that influences things too.

Women have substantially higher blood levels mg/mg, then if we see higher HMMA formation it’s clear neurotoxicity is much more a danger for women then men. This could also confuse research results as I’m sure MDMA naive women respond much better then ones with a fair amount of MDMA use history.

Your right though, this sort of soft science is subjective AF. Probably why research surrounding these topics often varies a lot too.

-GC

 

[hardtack]

Huh? What research are you referring to here?

Full disclosure - I am a woman. I guarantee you I felt full fire, elation, euphoria, happiness, sensuality, love, etc.

Cool I guess I was with the wrong kind of party gals? Thank you for the support ; I did have good experiences back with Real Molly and girlfriends of that era Awesome experiences Maybe party at Ultra Festival someday?

 

[hardtack]

I’ve noticed this as well.. I think it’s because of the difference in effects between men and women with relation to the hormone oxytocin. To women oxytocin has many purposes and from what I gathered they experience it/release it more often and to a greater extent. Hence one reason women probably have more extensive friend groups than males.

To males, oxytocin is a bit less common and seems to be more strictly related to interpersonal relationships and to a lesser extent early childhood bonding.

So my guesstimate is that when males get flooded with oxytocin it is a lot more novel and interesting than when females experience it.

-GC

Yes Yes I used to juice up allot and nothing like Tom Platz or someone like Jay Cutler thats super extreme!!.... but I felt super good on the stack I was doing and no question that would boost oxytocin beyond 100% more like 1000%. So perhaps what you state is right on the money!

 

[unodelacosa]

Yes Yes I used to juice up allot and nothing like Tom Platz or someone like Jay Cutler thats super extreme!!.... but I felt super good on the stack I was doing and no question that would boost oxytocin beyond 100% more like 1000%. So perhaps what you state is right on the money!

Perhaps but also perhaps not. A broken clock is right twice a day. A guess is still just a guess, no matter how educated. EDIT: that's not a slight, btw, to anyone on this thread. There are some significant intellects on here, and I've seriously enjoyed the discussion and the thoughts it has stimulated in my own mind, as I'm sure it has in the minds of others here, as well.

Hey but seriously, if you've been reading this thread, I highly recommend reading that last article I posted from the University of Santiago de Chile: MDMA (3,4-Methylenedioxymethamphetamine) Analogues as Tools to Characterize MDMA-Like Effects: An Approach to Understand Entactogen Pharmacology. I feel it was elucidating.

 

[hardtack]

Perhaps but also perhaps not. A broken clock is right twice a day. A guess is still just a guess, no matter how educated. EDIT: that's not a slight, btw, to anyone on this thread. There are some significant intellects on here, and I've seriously enjoyed the discussion and the thoughts it has stimulated in my own mind, as I'm sure it has in the minds of others here, as well.

Hey but seriously, if you've been reading this thread, I highly recommend reading that last article I posted from the University of Santiago de Chile: MDMA (3,4-Methylenedioxymethamphetamine) Analogues as Tools to Characterize MDMA-Like Effects: An Approach to Understand Entactogen Pharmacology. I feel it was elucidating.

Excellent --Thank you I did find out SHULGIN did try to use Sesame Seed Oil which has the molecule SESAMOL with that front attachment. Thank you I will definitely read this and save this article for sure.

 

[indigoaura]

These hormonal considerations are certainly all things I have contemplated in relation to my own experience.

Check this article: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-64528-w

From 1999 until 2006, I took a birth control pill called Estrostep. According to this article, that type of birth control pill would have increased oxytocin as well as had other effects.

In 2006, I switched to an Indian birth control that is a SERM rather than an actual hormone.

I have wondered if that switch (which occurred at almost the exact same time that my original dealer quit) could have caused some of the changes in my experience.

However, I recently went off all birth control and noticed no difference in the overall quality of my roll. I am back on the SERM now.

I am also not certain that I am going to fall into typical norms for women. I am definitely neurodivergent and somewhat gender fluid. Not sure that my neurological or hormonal profile is typical.

 

[Hilopsilo]

A couple old friends swung through from out of town tonight. They told a story about how an old wooky kinda guy in the crowd gave them really good massages at a festival this past summer. This guy asserted that stress (and ostensibly crappy food we eat because of stress, etc?) raises the acidity in the stomach (digestive system?) and inhibits or otherwise influences MDMA's effects negatively.

Food for thought eh? Sounds consistent with my experiences anyways. I find the whole serotonin-gut relationship interesting, and possibly not well understood, or maybe i just don't understand it I will say when the MDMA pops off, feels like SOMETHING happens in my stomach for sure...

 

[Hilopsilo]

Also I feel I should add context on the gender differences with oxytocin.

This article shows a significant amount more oxytocin in plasma of females than males.

Sex-Related Differences in Plasma Oxytocin Levels in Humans - PMC

Increasing evidence supports a key role of Oxytocin (OT) as a modulator of social relationships in mammals. The aim of the present study was to investigate possible sex-related differences in plasma OT levels in human beings. Forty-five healthy men ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

“Emotional empathy was enhanced after 125 mg of MDMA, mainly in men; that is, MDMA increased empathy ratings in men up to the higher placebo levels of women…”

MDMA enhances emotional empathy and prosocial behavior - PubMed

3,4-Methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA, 'ecstasy') releases serotonin and norepinephrine. MDMA is reported to produce empathogenic and prosocial feelings. It is unknown whether MDMA in fact alters empathic concern and prosocial behavior. We investigated the acute effects of MDMA using the...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

This second study states they found lower ratings of empathy with females but increased ratings on the facial recognition test regarding negative faces seeing them as more positive. (Butchered that lol.)


And here’s a study showing sex dependent differences in relation to “oxytocin genes” and subsequent empathy levels related to it.

The association between oxytocin receptor gene polymorphism (OXTR) and trait empathy

Oxytocin exerts well accepted effects on one of the key social processes: empathy. Previous researches have demonstrated that oxytocin promotes emotio…

www.sciencedirect.com

All that said, it seems while oxytocin plays a part in MDMA’s effects, it’s not all. And because women respond much stronger to MDMA, when looking at blood levels 125mg dose is much stronger for a woman than a man. So it all kinda pans out in the end.

I’ll say again while I think MDMA is fun as hell for women too it’s not quite as novel an experience as it is to males. I’ve been reading and it seems easy for males to have dysfunction regarding oxytocin release, so when we get a dump of it, it’s like seeing the world in a new way for the first time. My first roll was life changing in that way.

This has fuck all to do with the topic so I’ll see myself out now..

-GC

Very interesting, out of my social circle, the people that MDMA doesn't seem to work that well for anymore are mostly female.

I'd say there are 3 categories in my group; ~100mg does the trick, need >150mg to reach desired/unsubdued effects, or doesn't work at all.

 

[G_Chem]

A couple old friends swung through from out of town tonight. They told a story about how an old wooky kinda guy in the crowd gave them really good massages at a festival this past summer. This guy asserted that stress (and ostensibly crappy food we eat because of stress, etc?) raises the acidity in the stomach (digestive system?) and inhibits or otherwise influences MDMA's effects negatively.

Food for thought eh? Sounds consistent with my experiences anyways. I find the whole serotonin-gut relationship interesting, and possibly not well understood, or maybe i just don't understand it I will say when the MDMA pops off, feels like SOMETHING happens in my stomach for sure...

I’ve thought for awhile this whole issue could be health related. It’s a hard topic to bring up because it brings into question people’s health habits which are usually a touchy subject for most.

I personally eat extremely healthy by nearly all standards, partially cuz of my past health issues and partially cuz I just enjoy knowing I’m doing good for my body.

I don’t think most recreational MDMA users eat or exercise anywhere near what I do.. I feel I noticeably stand out in terms of energy and zest for life even in my sober state.

As for massages, oxytocin baby! So I did a great thread about this once (I think I did at least, on DF, if not I’ll do one soon) about how certain activities on MDMA further boost oxytocin. Humans tend to highly desire these activities while rolling because it just further boosts our oxytocin, releasing more dopamine, making us crave these activities more, rinse and repeat.

Massages, giving gifts, hugs, kissing, any sort of touch or affection, positive words of affirmation, looking into someone’s monster pupils, music, dancing (especially with others), making new friends, all of these things and more increase oxytocin. Sound familiar?

This is also why a setting full of MDMA influenced people can make for a better roll. As you have all these people going around doing these things for others, boosting oxytocin for themselves and those they interact with. I live by this shit too, you’ll see me giving randoms hugs, giving away free stuff, complimenting people. Loving on people cuz it makes me feel good too.

This is why I despise K and cocaine at festivals, they take away from this positive environment in my opinion.

Massages at the onset of the experience can both greatly enhance the roll while calming down the nausea and jitters that can accompany a strong come up. Especially when some MDA is thrown in.

-GC

 

[indigoaura]

I have to be honest, I question how much of a role oxytocin plays in all of this. I have been present at four childbirths (not mine, I was asked to film or photograph the birth). Supposedly, oxytocin is incredibly high for mothers who are giving birth. I was even with one woman who was given additional oxytocin to speed the process along. I never saw any behaviors, attitudes, or emotions similar to MDMA, just a lot of suffering. I've also tried intranasal oxytocin myself, and there is no magic there.

So, while I don't doubt that it is released and it plays a part, I just don't know how significant it is.

As for health, I make most of my food, don't eat fried food, have a BMI of 21, and just did a half marathon. I walk anywhere from 3-5 miles per day. I think by most measures, I would be seen as healthy.

But, I do have some odd auto-immune type responses. Lots of allergies and sensitivities.

What I wonder about are genetic mutations, of which I have quite a few single and double mutations according to testing. If you have irregular COMT mutations and MAOI mutations, that has to play a part, but I don't know how significant it would be.

All I know is that the experience used to be one thing and now it is another thing. Maybe that is due to me and maybe due to the product. I don't know. As I have said before, I have yet to see any new users roll the way everyone used to roll, and I don't think that is circumstantial.

 

[Keeloverandfly]

As for massages, oxytocin baby! So I did a great thread about this once (I think I did at least, on DF, if not I’ll do one soon) about how certain activities on MDMA further boost oxytocin. Humans tend to highly desire these activities while rolling because it just further boosts our oxytocin, releasing more dopamine, making us crave these activities more, rinse and repeat.

Massages, giving gifts, hugs, kissing, any sort of touch or affection, positive words of affirmation, looking into someone’s monster pupils, music, dancing (especially with others), making new friends, all of these things and more increase oxytocin. Sound familiar?

I can attest to this on an anecdotal level. I feel mdma by far the strongest with a partner in bed. Next would be on a dance floor or party. The 2 times I have dosed just sitting around with a non-drugged friend, it was as if I took a different drug (and it was the same batch), and it was rather underwhelming. Almost as if the positive feedback loops weren’t being reinforced. I did take it once alone and it was very strong, but that was different because I wasn’t with anyone else so I could practice self love.

 

[vash445]

someone on reddit from reddit.com/r/theehive has NMR PM me for info

cost depends what you want done, i'm assuming running more samples the cheaper it gets . He 500 and 300 MHz instruments and different solvents. also lcms.

i have a chiral hplc but it’s not always running. it’s possible to determine ee using nmr but we might have to try a few solvents to see if one works best. amphetamines don’t have very distinct enantiomers so it’d be tough. price depends what you want done and number of samples and which nmr instrument, etc.

 

[unodelacosa]

I have to be honest, I question how much of a role oxytocin plays in all of this. I have been present at four childbirths (not mine, I was asked to film or photograph the birth). Supposedly, oxytocin is incredibly high for mothers who are giving birth. I was even with one woman who was given additional oxytocin to speed the process along. I never saw any behaviors, attitudes, or emotions similar to MDMA, just a lot of suffering. I've also tried intranasal oxytocin myself, and there is no magic there.

So, while I don't doubt that it is released and it plays a part, I just don't know how significant it is.

As for health, I make most of my food, don't eat fried food, have a BMI of 21, and just did a half marathon. I walk anywhere from 3-5 miles per day. I think by most measures, I would be seen as healthy.

But, I do have some odd auto-immune type responses. Lots of allergies and sensitivities.

What I wonder about are genetic mutations, of which I have quite a few single and double mutations according to testing. If you have irregular COMT mutations and MAOI mutations, that has to play a part, but I don't know how significant it would be.

All I know is that the experience used to be one thing and now it is another thing. Maybe that is due to me and maybe due to the product. I don't know. As I have said before, I have yet to see any new users roll the way everyone used to roll, and I don't think that is circumstantial.

Or perhaps oxytocin response varies from person to person based on genetic factors beyond one’s assigned sex. Consider the different digestive traits of various people. Some individuals are lactose intolerant, while others like myself have no problems digesting diary. And still others seem only to be intolerant of pasteurized milk.

Some people can tolerate spicy food, others simply cannot w/o a particularly unpleasant restroom trip. I have relatives who cannot eat red meat without significant digestive trouble, but none of these things give me trouble. I cannot handle liquor any longer though, as I’ve slid into middle age I’ve noticed this. Nothing against anyone who likes the sauce, mind you; I was a drinking enthusiast in my 20s. Hangovers are a bitch though now, and I find I just don’t like being drunk or even buzzed from alcohol, but I wind up drinking a little here and there in social situations. I find Guinness to be a good, low-alcohol-content beer if you don’t mind a dry stout.

It’s interesting how there are various responses to MDMA from different people. For example, have you ever noticed that MDMA causes only some people to get this weird lower jaw, underbite kinda thing going on that I like to call “cash-register jaw”. It’s kind of a Shrek-like look, and you know when you see it that person is rolling bananas hard, just stupid monging out. But some people just seem hella prone to it, while others don’t seem to roll like that, they exhibit different—but still a distinct type of—mannerisms. It’s difficult not to wonder exactly why this is.

 

[vash445]

drugstar 2cb dealer

From personal experiences we also receive the same reports, not only with MDMA but especially with psychedelics like LSD.

 

[vash445]

I stumbled upon...
Methamphetamine synthesis via reductive alkylation hydrogenolysis of phenyl-2-propanone with N-benzylmethylamine.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0379073893902342

What if N-iso is less a cut.. and more a cartle fuckup synthesis similar to Meh MDMA Dutch dirt that's circulating any insites on why N-iso P2P is so common now? what if reductive alkylation fails and thus the impure meh meth we have around now...

Methamphetamine was synthesized by reductive alkylation hydrogenolysis of phenyl-2-propanone with N-benzylmethylamine. The expected product N-benzylmethamphetamine, once formed, undergoes hydrogenolysis to methamphetamine and toluene. The progress of the reaction, the intermediates formed during the reaction, and the products were analyzed by gas chromatography and mass spectrometry.

 

[G_Chem]

drugstar 2cb dealer

From personal experiences we also receive the same reports, not only with MDMA but especially with psychedelics like LSD.

Welcome back. So you’re saying LSD has lost the magic too?..

-GC

 

[vash445]

Welcome back. So you’re saying LSD has lost the magic too?..

-GC

yes

 

[Rectify]

BECAUSE WE'RE DEAD. THE 5-HT VESICLES GET STIFF. ETC.

The 6th Sense (1999)
duh --> movie's message hits home 23 years later

 

[Rectify]

Her After Death Anhedonia Has Been Solved By N-allyl-amphetamine.hcl! Thx, AMP.

DOMINATOR CREATOR INNOVATOR CREATOR

Clever As Ever!

 

[G_Chem]

yes

….And this is why I’m checked out on this conversation. LSD is just fine, if anything better than it’s ever been.

-GC