What is wrong with the MDMA available today? - v2

[unodelacosa]

Christ is there a way to filter this thread to just G_Chem's contributions? if y'all aren't fighting you're jumping to insane conclusions on both sides

No one is “jumping to insane conclusions” and there's a difference between fighting and debating. To a large extent this is a logic puzzle. Regardless, while I too am a fan of @G_Chem's contributions, let's not take credit away from other worthwhile posters on this thread.

 

[FuckinAcidMan]

The archives will be flush with excitement about this discussion in a distant time when these debates aren't needed cause regulations, or because we live in a postwar wasteland and know the E is good cause the local medicine man made it.

This period is unique it's like the dawning of full blown global trade even for contraband

where end user reviews are pooled with scientific knowledge and chemical testing to create a decentralized network solely to discuss the subjective dissonance between old and new batches

I like MDMA, rolling is fun, you guys are doing a great job

Good work everyone

 

[new2drugs]

Yes. MAPS has funded full FDA studies for MDMA, and it is in phase three studies. Subscribe to the MAPS newsletter to get updates, but the last update they sent out said they anticipated FDA approval in 2023 for PTSD treatment.

The in layer years it will creep into recreation use a bit like cannibis has become legalised?

 

[AutoTripper]

I think there's an argument that recreation is actually therapeutic.

Experiencing your MDMA shouldn't feel like a chore.

Abuse is something else. Out of balance, order, infringing on other pursuits in life in unhealthy manners.

I can't see any legal avenue supplying an abusing MDMA user.

 

[new2drugs]

I think there's an argument that recreation is actually therapeutic.

Experiencing your MDMA shouldn't feel like a chore.

Abuse is something else. Out of balance, order, infringing on other pursuits in life in unhealthy manners.

I can't see any legal avenue supplying an abusing MDMA user.

No I meant going to a pharmacy provided your over 21 and getting one packet only. Bit like other behind the counter stuff

 

[AutoTripper]

No I meant going to a pharmacy provided your over 21 and getting one packet only. Bit like other behind the counter stuff

I imagine there would at least be some type of consultation process involved though probably monitor too.

 

[new2drugs]

I imagine there would at least be some type of consultation process involved though probably monitor too.

Yea but ya can bullshit that or sign a disclaimer etc .

 

[G_Chem]

Oxymorphone and d-meth are available as pharmaceutical drugs that I’ve never had a chance to try. Just because it gets legalized doesn’t mean there’s a snowballs chance in hell much of that supply will ever trickle into the hands of people not prescribed. Especially if used in a setting where the patient is monitored the whole time.

Then we have the lovely price tag. I can get Ketamine right now legally if I wanted to but the price is going to be like 500x what I’d pay on the street. Fuck that. Nothing about this current medical system the US has is in line with the idea of actually trying to help people.

-GC

 

[new2drugs]

Oxymorphone and d-meth are available as pharmaceutical drugs that I’ve never had a chance to try. Just because it gets legalized doesn’t mean there’s a snowballs chance in hell much of that supply will ever trickle into the hands of people not prescribed. Especially if used in a setting where the patient is monitored the whole time.

Then we have the lovely price tag. I can get Ketamine right now legally if I wanted to but the price is going to be like 500x what I’d pay on the street. Fuck that. Nothing about this current medical system the US has is in line with the idea of actually trying to help people.

-GC

I'm in UK.we tend to follow us

 

[MountainTrails]

This is a great thread/topic.

Anyway, there's one detail about the anecdotal reports that I haven't really seen. It goes to the point of "lost magic." Maybe that is due to bad product and maybe it's due to a change in the individual, right? We can disambiguate.

I'd be very interested in hearing the details of experience with other serotonergic agents. If someone is having bad experiences across that spectrum, it points in one direction; if the disappointing experience is limited to MDMA, that points toward a change in MDMA. At least that's the way I see it. It's not diagnostic but does provide some hints.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

This is a great thread/topic.

Anyway, there's one detail about the anecdotal reports that I haven't really seen. It goes to the point of "lost magic." Maybe that is due to bad product and maybe it's due to a change in the individual, right? We can disambiguate.

Mate, this thread has been trying to disambiguate the 'lost magic' argument for several hundred pages now...

 

[MountainTrails]

Mate, this thread has been trying to disambiguate the 'lost magic' argument for several hundred pages now...

Yes, it has, but I've seen very few (if any) comments that go right at that specific detail.

"It's not the same product."
"No, it's you."

And that's about it. How about "MDA works for me. 5-APB works for me. MDMA, not since whenever." That would be a less fuzzy comment less likely to be dismissed with "It's you."

 

[indigoaura]

Yes, it has, but I've seen very few (if any) comments that go right at that specific detail.

"It's not the same product."
"No, it's you."

And that's about it. How about "MDA works for me. 5-APB works for me. MDMA, not since whenever." That would be a less fuzzy comment less likely to be dismissed with "It's you."

2CB still works very well for me. I have not had the opportunity to try any of the APB substances, so I cannot comment there.

MDA is a bit of a mixed bag. I have had some super shitty MDA that made me sick, and I have had some great, clean MDA that kept me up all night.

I think this is an interesting line of thought. Aren't there different sets of serotonin receptors though? Are all serotonergic agents even influencing the same receptor sets? Theoretically, someone could downregulate the receptors that MDMA triggers, but still have a different set of receptors that are vulnerable to something like 5-APB. At least, that was always my understanding.

 

[indigoaura]

Also, in regards to the legality of MDMA, I think the biggest difference is going to be with research. Once some of the limitations are lifted there, we should be able to learn a lot more. Also, more labs will be able to produce. I think just with MAPS releasing their synthesis, they are opening doors for the production of MDMA.

 

[MountainTrails]

2CB still works very well for me. I have not had the opportunity to try any of the APB substances, so I cannot comment there.

MDA is a bit of a mixed bag. I have had some super shitty MDA that made me sick, and I have had some great, clean MDA that kept me up all night.

I think this is an interesting line of thought. Aren't there different sets of serotonin receptors though? Are all serotonergic agents even influencing the same receptor sets? Theoretically, someone could downregulate the receptors that MDMA triggers, but still have a different set of receptors that are vulnerable to something like 5-APB. At least, that was always my understanding.

Thanks!

As for the great questions at the end, that's a level of understanding I don't have but hope to learn. I have this thing about different neurotypes and different kinds of minds atop those brains, and understanding all that a whole lot better. We know so damned little about human cognition that it's stunning. How many years has this species been around, and yet thinking about thinking is way low on the priority list -- while it seems to me that's one of the best and most fundamental ways to advance this species I can imagine.

 

[new2drugs]

Also, in regards to the legality of MDMA, I think the biggest difference is going to be with research. Once some of the limitations are lifted there, we should be able to learn a lot more. Also, more labs will be able to produce. I think just with MAPS releasing their synthesis, they are opening doors for the production of MDMA.

Hope so.

 

[Hilopsilo]

Beep beep fresh anecdotes:

Took MDMA with a group of ~12 on Friday at a show we road tripped to. We got stuff from a reputable source local to the area, to my disgruntlement it was just 1 big rock and I spent the entire pre-game making parachutes w/ a $20 scale that was hardly working brand new. It smelled lightly of the usual M smell, in structure it looked quite similar to the Quartz MDMA up here, but a bit more amber toned. It crushed to an almost-brilliant white powder. Doses ended up with a probably 75-125mg margin of error, let people eye ball and take the dose sizes they wanted. Was the best we could do.

People got smaller doses than they wanted b/c more ppl decided to roll last minute. A lot of ppl who usually take 200mg took the bigger >100mg doses, and the rest of us got probably somewhat sub 100mg doses.

It was a wonderful, wonderful night of reuniting friends, but nonetheless:

Those that purposefully took the smaller ones (~80mg) did NOT get fully dilated pupils. This was very apparent, but they were definitely rolling. I reckon I took 90mg, and I was not preloaded with a psych, it didn't feel like the strongest roll of all time and it was seriously carried by music we love & good friends. Otherwise I think I would have felt more underwhelmed. But, friends said my pupils were fully dilated. Come-up was more strained at a proper venue, I spent a lot of time sleepy rolling & sitting, if a particularly bangerish song came on I'd be filled with energy to dance & get my heartrate up, but it was ephemeral. The music, and sound overall, did not seem to take on that visceral quiet-loud timbre it does when you're really rolling. To compact this, I think they could have turned the music up about 20%.

It was 50/50 on pupil dilation in the crew. The ONE person who got ~160mg (bday girl) had the saucers going on that withstood the really bright visual show & I think was obviously the highest person, but could be some confirmation bias here. Overall the MDMA felt "good quality", there wasn't anything characteristically wrong with the roll, I just felt like most of us needed to have definitely taken a bit more.

Wouldn't that be a neat & tidy bow to wrap this all up with? The MehDMA is really just a lower MDMA:byproducts ratio so your 100mg ends up say, 80mg, and theres no simple or easy way to suss that out... This doesn't address the anecdotes about futile dose increases on the supposed MehDMA, amongst other things. But what I mean to say is, low dose MDMA seems to display a lot of the MehDMA symptoms, as so many have described it since the dawn of time "I just didn't quite roll".

Having taken MDMA on its own a couple times since I've tried paying more attention, might be obvious, but I feel I can definitively say LSD or any psych potentiates the crap out of this stuff, no questions asked. Most of my fellow crew candyflippers seem to agree on this. Kinda abstract, but when on psychedelics I feel there is a sort of lust for "tension breaking" events/moments or sounds, and w/ MDMA & really loud punchy tunes, you're just getting fed that repeatedly & its just electric.

 

[G_Chem]

Beep beep fresh anecdotes:

Took MDMA with a group of ~12 on Friday at a show we road tripped to. We got stuff from a reputable source local to the area, to my disgruntlement it was just 1 big rock and I spent the entire pre-game making parachutes w/ a $20 scale that was hardly working brand new. It smelled lightly of the usual M smell, in structure it looked quite similar to the Quartz MDMA up here, but a bit more amber toned. It crushed to an almost-brilliant white powder. Doses ended up with a probably 75-125mg margin of error, let people eye ball and take the dose sizes they wanted. Was the best we could do.

People got smaller doses than they wanted b/c more ppl decided to roll last minute. A lot of ppl who usually take 200mg took the bigger >100mg doses, and the rest of us got probably somewhat sub 100mg doses.

It was a wonderful, wonderful night of reuniting friends, but nonetheless:

Those that purposefully took the smaller ones (~80mg) did NOT get fully dilated pupils. This was very apparent, but they were definitely rolling. I reckon I took 90mg, and I was not preloaded with a psych, it didn't feel like the strongest roll of all time and it was seriously carried by music we love & good friends. Otherwise I think I would have felt more underwhelmed. But, friends said my pupils were fully dilated. Come-up was more strained at a proper venue, I spent a lot of time sleepy rolling & sitting, if a particularly bangerish song came on I'd be filled with energy to dance & get my heartrate up, but it was ephemeral. The music, and sound overall, did not seem to take on that visceral quiet-loud timbre it does when you're really rolling. To compact this, I think they could have turned the music up about 20%.

It was 50/50 on pupil dilation in the crew. The ONE person who got ~160mg (bday girl) had the saucers going on that withstood the really bright visual show & I think was obviously the highest person, but could be some confirmation bias here. Overall the MDMA felt "good quality", there wasn't anything characteristically wrong with the roll, I just felt like most of us needed to have definitely taken a bit more.

Wouldn't that be a neat & tidy bow to wrap this all up with? The MehDMA is really just a lower MDMA:byproducts ratio so your 100mg ends up say, 80mg, and theres no simple or easy way to suss that out... This doesn't address the anecdotes about futile dose increases on the supposed MehDMA, amongst other things. But what I mean to say is, low dose MDMA seems to display a lot of the MehDMA symptoms, as so many have described it since the dawn of time "I just didn't quite roll".

Having taken MDMA on its own a couple times since I've tried paying more attention, might be obvious, but I feel I can definitively say LSD or any psych potentiates the crap out of this stuff, no questions asked. Most of my fellow crew candyflippers seem to agree on this. Kinda abstract, but when on psychedelics I feel there is a sort of lust for "tension breaking" events/moments or sounds, and w/ MDMA & really loud punchy tunes, you're just getting fed that repeatedly & its just electric.

That last paragraph I think sometimes might be the answer to this. I notice that those of us who seem to still roll good also very often take psychedelics in conjunction. I don’t always, and when I don’t I still have a great experience but I still prefer my rolls with LSD or some other psychedelic mixed in.

I’d say I only roll without a psychedelic once a year, maybe once every other year. It’s usually a time where a psychedelic just isn’t fitting with the setting, but like I said even those times I still get everything I expect from it so I don’t often mention it on here.

I’ve wondered though maybe there is a neuroprotective component or possibly neurogenesis after the fact. I also use psychedelics a fair amount outside of my MDMA use too.

I’d like to hear from individuals here who use psychedelics fairly frequently but still don’t roll properly..


As for the experience, that all sounds about right. I’ve found 80mg doses are only “good” on the purest of product. That type of crystal that is so clear when you set it next to other apparently clear crystals they shine in comparison. Especially if there was an expectation amongst some of the crew to be getting doses bigger than initially expected.

That said, I’ve liked hearing the stories of you and your crew. I’ve never had a crew quite like that but wish I did. My crew is much more eclectic in the drug preferences, so it’s rare we all get down on some MDMA like that. How ya’ll shared it even when it meant smaller doses is exactly what the scene is about, my hat off to you sir.

-GC

 

[indigoaura]

Wouldn't that be a neat & tidy bow to wrap this all up with? The MehDMA is really just a lower MDMA:byproducts ratio so your 100mg ends up say, 80mg, and theres no simple or easy way to suss that out...

All I can say, from my limited/personal experiences, is that it has made no significant difference if I take 100 mg, 120 mg, 130 mg, 150 mg, or even 200 mg. The higher I go with dose, the more weird side effects I have. I assume this is due to contaminants, because the side effects are digestive for the most part and not something I experienced in the past, even on 5 pill nights. The higher doses basically have a hangover, but with no really significant improvement in the roll itself. My sweet spot seems to be around 135 mg as a starting dose. That seems to keep the side effects lower but gets the roll going.

I do agree with @G_Chem about the psychedelics. Starting with a low dose of 2CB really does improve the situation tremendously. I don't know which receptors 2CB binds to, but I wonder if it is possible that it is blocking the receptors so that contaminants/byproducts are unable to bind.

I take LSD 2-3 times per year, and take 2CB about the same amount. Still have difficulty with the MDMA. Pretty happy with half a hit of LSD though, and hardly ever take more than one hit.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Wouldn't that be a neat & tidy bow to wrap this all up with? The MehDMA is really just a lower MDMA:byproducts ratio so your 100mg ends up say, 80mg, and theres no simple or easy way to suss that out... This doesn't address the anecdotes about futile dose increases on the supposed MehDMA, amongst other things. But what I mean to say is, low dose MDMA seems to display a lot of the MehDMA symptoms, as so many have described it since the dawn of time "I just didn't quite roll".

I wish it were that simple.

Unfortunately, MehDMA cannot be made Magic simply by increasing the dose (god knows I've tried). It just doesn't work like that.


Conversely, a low dose of good MDMA doesn't turn it into MehDMA - its still obviously good and displays NONE of the MehDMA 'symptoms'.

They are totally different animals...