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MDMA &
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What is wrong with the MDMA available today?
- Thread starter Le Junk
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Wilson Wilson
Bluelighter
Yesterday I had a lovely sesh on some powder I found from about 5 or so years ago. Light beige coloured (almost white), not very strong smelling, but very high quality MDMA. Proper powerful roll, it's one that actually felt "therapeutic" in that I proper opened up in ways I never normally can, and spoke about some issues in life (family relations etc) in an understanding way and felt empathy for the other person's POV and history etc... it felt literally like MDMA assisted therapy, absolutely amazing experience, still feeling an afterglow from it today and really hope it sticks with me.
The friend I rolled with said she felt like she saw a side of me she never seen before and felt like she knew me a lot better as a person. Similarly she opened up about some dark stuff from her past and we talked it out and I was very understanding even though it was tricky stuff we were on about. Hopefully I helped her feel better about herself and mistakes she's made. She was on half an M&M pill.
Not a single doubt this was proper magic. The experience was great. Part of this was set and setting of course. First time out and socialising in a long while due to the lockdown and we were in a lovely sunny park. But this was still some magical experience.
We both felt pretty energetic too. Not "stimmed" just energetic, like we wanted to walk around and talk a lot, but then we ended up finding walking to be, not tiring exactly, but a bit difficult on a roll, so we kept sitting down again.
We were both also on 1.2g phenibut which certainly synergised with the MD and enhanced the experience, particularly making us more chatty and less likely to be anxious (rolling in public tends to cause anxiety obvs). But the MD was just downright fucking brilliant.
Hard to put it into words, it was just special.
Guess the point I'm making is once again I feel no reason to believe the stuff we're getting is not "MagicDMA." It honestly felt to me like we could have gone deeper and it could have been a full on life changing experience if we went in with that intention. As it was we went in just wanting to have a fun sesh and came out with that deep shit.
The friend I rolled with said she felt like she saw a side of me she never seen before and felt like she knew me a lot better as a person. Similarly she opened up about some dark stuff from her past and we talked it out and I was very understanding even though it was tricky stuff we were on about. Hopefully I helped her feel better about herself and mistakes she's made. She was on half an M&M pill.
Not a single doubt this was proper magic. The experience was great. Part of this was set and setting of course. First time out and socialising in a long while due to the lockdown and we were in a lovely sunny park. But this was still some magical experience.
We both felt pretty energetic too. Not "stimmed" just energetic, like we wanted to walk around and talk a lot, but then we ended up finding walking to be, not tiring exactly, but a bit difficult on a roll, so we kept sitting down again.
We were both also on 1.2g phenibut which certainly synergised with the MD and enhanced the experience, particularly making us more chatty and less likely to be anxious (rolling in public tends to cause anxiety obvs). But the MD was just downright fucking brilliant.
Hard to put it into words, it was just special.
Guess the point I'm making is once again I feel no reason to believe the stuff we're getting is not "MagicDMA." It honestly felt to me like we could have gone deeper and it could have been a full on life changing experience if we went in with that intention. As it was we went in just wanting to have a fun sesh and came out with that deep shit.
Did you find the sunny park uncomfortable on MDMA ?
I agree that relating subjective info does not help much, but relaying objective info (mydriasis, trismus, bp, glucose, antidiuresis, sodium, etc...) helps the pros to take it seriously ...and do proper chem analysis then.
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Wilson Wilson
Bluelighter
Not at all. In fact we both found ourselves wanting to get into the sun. It felt weird because obviously we had high body temps and were probably sweating (I definitely smelt the sweat when I got home lol) but we didn't actually feel unpleasantly hot. Just nice and warm and comfortable. I only felt uncomfortable when it started to get late and it got cold, but by that point we were coming down too.
I find bright lights very uncomfortable when my pupils are fully dilated, don't you ?
Wilson Wilson
Bluelighter
Oh we weren't looking up at the sun, we were either looking at each other or more often I was staring at the grass and running my hands through it. My pupils were very dilated, but then even under normal circumstances I don't stare directly into the sun haha.
indigoaura
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One thing I think would help this thread a lot would be if everyone took people's anecdotes seriously and stopped assuming that what is true for one person is true for someone else. I don't doubt the magical reports of MDMA, and have never doubted that proper MDMA is out there. Those fortunate enough to have good connections should count themselves as lucky. Those who are not that fortunate should be happy for the magic rollers and be hopeful that good times are ahead. We would save a lot of time and pointless debate if we just accepted where other people are coming from.
@Wilson Wilson Sounds like you had an amazing experience. I recall those moments of opening up and accessing a vulnerable but safe place. My ex (who was pretty closeted) was once able to talk about some early homosexual experiences that he had never talked about before, and admit to some lies he had told me throughout our relationship. That was a characteristic of the MDMA I used to have access to. You could talk and wanted to talk. MDMA sessions used to be a place where you could bring up all of those topics that were too awkward to hash out under normal circumstances. That's one of the reasons why the total inability to talk and desire for others to stop talking seems so out of place with the Meh product I have had in recent years. Can you imagine someone opening up and talking to you and your mental reaction is just "shut up, please"?
@Wilson Wilson Sounds like you had an amazing experience. I recall those moments of opening up and accessing a vulnerable but safe place. My ex (who was pretty closeted) was once able to talk about some early homosexual experiences that he had never talked about before, and admit to some lies he had told me throughout our relationship. That was a characteristic of the MDMA I used to have access to. You could talk and wanted to talk. MDMA sessions used to be a place where you could bring up all of those topics that were too awkward to hash out under normal circumstances. That's one of the reasons why the total inability to talk and desire for others to stop talking seems so out of place with the Meh product I have had in recent years. Can you imagine someone opening up and talking to you and your mental reaction is just "shut up, please"?
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ThreePointCircle
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So I applied marquis, froedhe and ehrlich (what I had handy) to some TLC plates. See results here: https://mdma.noosworx.com/index.php?title=Thin_Layer_Chromatography
I didn't find any more spots but it was interesting to see how much more vibrant the reactions were with the spots after TLC, compared to plated by non-TLC samples or reactions with the original crystal. Marquis was very blue, and the purple colour of the froedhe reactions would have me id'ing it more as aspirin that mdma.
If anyone has magic vs meh samples, it would be interesting to see the reagent tests after TLC. Unfortunately I only have meh samples.
I didn't find any more spots but it was interesting to see how much more vibrant the reactions were with the spots after TLC, compared to plated by non-TLC samples or reactions with the original crystal. Marquis was very blue, and the purple colour of the froedhe reactions would have me id'ing it more as aspirin that mdma.
If anyone has magic vs meh samples, it would be interesting to see the reagent tests after TLC. Unfortunately I only have meh samples.
Wilson Wilson
Bluelighter
Exactly, thank you for saying this. I think there is meh and magic both out there right now. People who are just saying "you only think it's good because you never tried the old stuff" are just sounding arrogant to me, especially when in the same breath they often say "I can still get the old stuff so I know the difference." Okay so if you can still get it why do you think I can't?
In fact during that roll yesterday me and my friend both took some powder we found lying around in our respective stashes, mine turned out to be absolute magic whereas she she felt very much meh from hers. Luckily I did bring that half a pill with me just in case any of the powder turned out to be meh, and since I didn't need it I gave it to her and she came up on my level as soon as the pill hit.
You just described the experience perfectly man, that's exactly what it was. I am a very closed off person for various reasons, which I was able to just openly explain in that moment (among many other things) without feeling embarrassed or awkward or anything, it just felt natural to speak from the heart. This is so different to how I normally am, where I have a hard time even processing emotion let alone expressing it, like I literally cannot even find the words, and I have all these psychological defence mechanisms which just disappear, that in the moment I just feel so free and able to be myself and it really sticks with me. It really shows me why they used this stuff for therapy and are running trials to do so again.
And yeah if you are both on good stuff that's when it really shines. It would feel horrible if you opened up with all this stuff but the other person just didn't care. This is why I make sure whenever I roll with someone I get the stash in, because I know my stuff is good.
Something else I thought was pretty special about that roll is I was given oxy for the comedown and it definitely helped bring me down smoothly, especially with the physical symptoms I tend to get at the tail end of a strong roll (lots of physical discomfort), but it also made me realise just how meh oxy is as far as drugs go. I mean I was just rolling all day, opening up as a person, feeling real close to someone, but at the same time we had a laugh and told jokes and just had fun, it was crazy how it was so fun yet so deep, a chill day out where you can bring up difficult issues without any of the emotional toll you'd normally get, and how it was mixed in with just having a great time, a seriously magic experience.
Then as the oxy was coming up I just began stumbling about, got lost for a bit, finally got home, laid down in bed and nodded out for a couple hours, tried and failed to get Rick and Morty playing on my TV, dropped my phone on my face a few times in the process, and eventually gave up and just fell asleep.
I can't lie and say the oxy didn't feel good. It did. But doing both in the same day, I couldn't help but compare those two experiences and realise just how poorly the oxy compares. The MDMA actually genuinely helped me and a friend work through shit in our lives and at the same time have an amazing day together. Like a day out with a close friend also being a therapy session but all good vibes. The oxy, well, had me feeling super drugged out and stumbling around like a pisshead before just falling asleep after failing to operate my phone.
I bring this up because I used to be hooked on oxy. And yet this is the second time I've had a dose since quitting and both times have just reinforced that I made the right decision to quit it. The first time, in fact, I was given a strip of 80's for free with another deal, tried one, and straight up just gave the rest away. This time I had just one half for the comedown, but was not fiending for more, in fact I was glad I didn't spend money on it.
During the time since quitting oxy I've used LSD, MDMA, ketamine, and weed instead because I figured I needed to get my head straight instead of trying to run from my demons. I honestly think it's succeeded and helped to change me for the better. It's not the only factor, other things also happened in my life that I think made me no longer feel such a deep urge to escape reality, but I think those experiences with LSD, MDMA, and ketamine helped me see things differently and put me on that good path in life in the first place. And the weed helps to replace opiates as my go to chill out drug for when I do wanna just space out.
Basically I feel like I have a lot to thank the whole "mind exploring" class of drugs for, they helped put me on a better path from being self-destructive trying to hide from myself.
And see you can tell I'm on an afterglow cuz look how real and open I'm still being.
This is a really good point of information. Being able to reach a magic level experience after having taken meh is a possible detractor from the idea of meh as resultant of negatively psychoactive impurities, or a data point about impurities if Magic is somehow able to overpower the effects of a present negative substance.
indigoaura
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That is a really good point that I had not thought about before.
The only time I encountered something that felt like "meh" back when I was doing pills was with these pills:
DrugsData.org (was EcstasyData): Test Details : Result #694 - Iceburg, 694
DrugsData (EcstasyData) lab testing result
Yes, I sent in that sample, so I know it is the same thing.
I remember taking two of them, and it was just bleh. Lethargic. Not peaking.
The boyfriend and I both felt the same way. We had some other pills left from a previous experience that were good, and we took those and came up just fine, like normal.
That does seem to discredit the idea that receptors are being blocked with a contaminant, because if that was the case, then the second pill would not work.
Wilson Wilson
Bluelighter
Yeah this is correct I think. I do not believe meh MDMA "blocks the receptors" and have seen no evidence of this at all. If anything a redose of good stuff kicks in much more quickly than any initial dose of MDMA would, which suggests the opposite - that some MDMA is active in the brain, it's just not doing its full job correctly. Perhaps this suggests an imbalance of isomers could be the cause of poor quality synths.
However as another data point I should mention that I know for a fact my friend uses shady dealers and often gets cut drugs. Recently she got mephedrone and ketamine she knows ain't right because I've shared my DNM stuff with her and she now knows what quality shit should feel like. Likewise my MDMA all comes from the DNMs too and I'm the type to look up who has the best gear when I order. It's very common that if I share a line of any given drug with a mate they'll be amazed at the quality. I literally warn them at this point, this is probably much stronger than what you're used to, do a smaller dose to start. Only thing that seems to be consistently good quality on the streets right now is weed. Everything else, I go darknet.
Since her MDMA came as a powder it could easily just have an inert cut in it resulting in low purity. So the pill provided a full dose hence a full effect.
I'm thinking specifically about the situation with my friend yesterday here though. I don't think that's the full story for all meh MDMA especially not lab tested pills, but it is a possible factor in this specific instance.
Unless the contaminant can be knocked off in some way, but then why would taking more MehDMA not work... Hmm.
The big reason I've been leaning towards active impurities is that MehDMA taken during a great psychedelic experience will lead to a meh experience. That points towards negative active impurities vs MagicDMA having positive active impurities, since one would imagine that a psychedelic wouldn't be ruined by "plain" MDMA, especially given MDMA having been around for 20-30 years before MehDMA came along in a big way.
I don't have the mental capacity right now to deduce further, unfortunately.
Wilson Wilson
Bluelighter
Yeah this would line up with the isomer theory as well. I don't know how well researched MDMA's isomers are, but any drug will have a left and right isomer. In amphetamine for example, the psychoactive properties come entirely from the dextro isomer, which is why dexamphetamine is more potent than mixed amphetamine salts (Adderall) which contain both D-amph and L-amph. If you have just L-amph you'd only get the physical effects (fast heart rate etc) and no high at all. Just the D-amph and you get less of the physical effects but the full psychoactive effect.
MDMA is a substituted amphetamine so it's not exactly crazy to theorise it works in a similar way. If one isomer is responsible for all or most of the desirable psychoactive properties, and a bad synth produces too much of the shitty isomer, you will get MehDMA. A balanced synth may well be the more traditional "old school" stuff while a synth leaning towards only the most powerful isomer would have the most potency but not necessarily the most magic - although if MDMA is similar enough to regular amphetamine, in theory the active isomer would be cleaner and have fewer side effects, but again I have no idea if this is the case and am just speculating.
This might also explain why people are saying you could take higher doses of the older stuff and it'd cause less toxicity. If this is indeed true, it makes sense that you had balanced isomers, whereas the new stuff might be produced so you only get the strong psychoactive isomer, making it more potent per milligram similarly to Dexedrine vs. Adderall.
I'd have to do some research into how much is even known about MDMA's isomers to know how much merit this theory has, but isomers make a big difference for many many drugs so it is very plausible especially when you're talking about black market lab synths.
Maybe your brain needs feeding.
Here is some food for thought: A polydrug user has built up a tolerance to one drug, that is a contaminant of another.
For example, if an opiate junkie takes MDMA slightly contaminated with fentanyl, he might not even feel the fentanyl, while a virgin user will. It is a scenario that has not been discussed here yet.
indigoaura
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I don't get your implication here. Would you explain in a more direct fashion?
Are you saying there is a contaminant that someone like me might be sensitive to and feel more than another user who may have a tolerance to it?
indigoaura
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@Wilson Wilson We have discussed the isomer theory extensively. The consensus among the chemistry minded people was pretty unanimous that it would be very difficult to produce L or R isomer MDMA unless it was on purpose, and doing so would not be cost effective.
Again, not much capacity for logic right now so I'm not following completely.
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