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What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

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You should grab a sample from her and send it in to be tested. If you are in the UK wedinos will do it for free.

I've been telling her to send her dodgy drugs off to WEDINOS for a while, printed out the forms and everything, but she ain't got around to it yet. She's always like "I need to send this off actually, curious what's in it..." but she hasn't done it.

Some point in the future I'll fill the forms in and post them off myself tbh.

@Wilson Wilson We have discussed the isomer theory extensively. The consensus among the chemistry minded people was pretty unanimous that it would be very difficult to produce L or R isomer MDMA unless it was on purpose, and doing so would not be cost effective.

I figured isomers would have been discussed already given it's an obvious theory. Makes sense about it not being cost effective.
 
@Wilson Wilson We have discussed the isomer theory extensively. The consensus among the chemistry minded people was pretty unanimous that it would be very difficult to produce L or R isomer MDMA unless it was on purpose, and doing so would not be cost effective.
Its a possibility with some synthesis
such as the route to make mdmethcathinone with L,alanine
produces pure levo product.reducing the L mdmcathinone to an alcohol then to the amphetamine would result in possibly pure levo product.
Or if the lithium ammonia method is used in the alcohol to amphetamine reduction pure Dextro mdma would be the result
 
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If u think about it the Chinese RC factories were already setup to pump out mdcathinones in bulk so it's not a stretch to say they might use this mdcathinone to mdamphetamine route.the fact they can pump out kilos of cathinones for shit all means costwise it's very feasible to do it this way.
 
Yeah this would line up with the isomer theory as well. I don't know how well researched MDMA's isomers are, but any drug will have a left and right isomer. In amphetamine for example, the psychoactive properties come entirely from the dextro isomer, which is why dexamphetamine is more potent than mixed amphetamine salts (Adderall) which contain both D-amph and L-amph. If you have just L-amph you'd only get the physical effects (fast heart rate etc) and no high at all. Just the D-amph and you get less of the physical effects but the full psychoactive effect.

MDMA is a substituted amphetamine so it's not exactly crazy to theorise it works in a similar way. If one isomer is responsible for all or most of the desirable psychoactive properties, and a bad synth produces too much of the shitty isomer, you will get MehDMA. A balanced synth may well be the more traditional "old school" stuff while a synth leaning towards only the most powerful isomer would have the most potency but not necessarily the most magic - although if MDMA is similar enough to regular amphetamine, in theory the active isomer would be cleaner and have fewer side effects, but again I have no idea if this is the case and am just speculating.

This might also explain why people are saying you could take higher doses of the older stuff and it'd cause less toxicity. If this is indeed true, it makes sense that you had balanced isomers, whereas the new stuff might be produced so you only get the strong psychoactive isomer, making it more potent per milligram similarly to Dexedrine vs. Adderall.

I'd have to do some research into how much is even known about MDMA's isomers to know how much merit this theory has, but isomers make a big difference for many many drugs so it is very plausible especially when you're talking about black market lab synths.
Look at the pihkal entry's on mdma.it goes into detail about the effect of the seperate isomers.u need both isomers to get the full mdma effect.either one by themselves is nothing special at all apparently.also
this problem can be ruled in or out using a polarimeter to see if meh is racemic or not.someone on here mentioned using one to see if some tan mdpv they had was racemic and it was.
 
Look at the pihkal entry's on mdma.it goes into detail about the effect of the seperate isomers.u need both isomers to get the full mdma effect.either one by themselves is nothing special at all apparently.also
this problem can be ruled in or out using a polarimeter to see if meh is racemic or not.someone on here mentioned using one to see if some tan mdpv they had was racemic and it was.

This is interesting. If I'm reading your comments right it actually wouldn't be cost prohibitive to produce one isomer, it'd just require a slight change in synthesis? And if Chinese labs used to knocking out RCs use the same precursors for MDMA they could end up doing exactly that?

If MDMA needs to be racemic to get the full effect, and a non-racemic mixture can be made with poor synthesis, this would make a viable explanation for MehDMA.

I have a copy of PiHKAL somewhere, will have to read up on it later.
 
I remember reading a news article about how the cops in China busted in on a crew that had just synthesized 50kilos of meth.what the crew didn't realize was they'd made 50 kilos of L,meth. So the chance of a crew
pumping out shitty non racemic product and not knowing or caring
is a possibility.
 
This is interesting. If I'm reading your comments right it actually wouldn't be cost prohibitive to produce one isomer, it'd just require a slight change in synthesis? And if Chinese labs used to knocking out RCs use the same precursors for MDMA they could end up doing exactly that?

If MDMA needs to be racemic to get the full effect, and a non-racemic mixture can be made with poor synthesis, this would make a viable explanation for MehDMA.

I have a copy of PiHKAL somewhere, will have to read up on it later.
Correct
 
A polarimeter examination of meh samples would answer the racemic isomer question. If anyone is sending off samples for testing perhaps they could also ask the testing facility to test for racemicness or if it's an enantiomerically pure product.i dont know of any testing facilities apart from the ones mentioned in this thread so if anyone knows how to contact them and ask if they can test for isomers that would help alot.
 
I just had a look at international energy controls website and seen they can't tell the difference between 2fluro,3fluro
or 4fluro amphetamines so it's possible that they can't tell 2,3mdma from 3,4mdma or other isomers but this is just me speculating. I didn't see that they can test for isomers anywhere or find a way to contact them to ask.
 
A polarimeter examination of meh samples would answer the racemic isomer question. If anyone is sending off samples for testing perhaps they could also ask the testing facility to test for racemicness or if it's an enantiomerically pure product.i dont know of any testing facilities apart from the ones mentioned in this thread so if anyone knows how to contact them and ask if they can test for isomers that would help alot.

I think Energy Control can test for isomers.
 
H
I think Energy Control can test for isomers.
Have they been doing this?
Will they do this for future meh samples?
Can they test for the stereo isomers? (Dextro and levo)
Can they test for the positional isomers?
(2,3mdma or mdisopropylbenzylamine
or the 1methylamino product)
 
H

Have they been doing this?
Will they do this for future meh samples?
Can they test for the stereo isomers? (Dextro and levo)
Can they test for the positional isomers?
(2,3mdma or mdisopropylbenzylamine
or the 1methylamino product)

You'd have to ask them, they do have an email and are usually pretty good at discussing the details of their lab capabilities. I just remember them testing isomers for some other drugs in the past, I think ketamine was one.

Not sure if the equipment and process for doing the same for MDMA would be different.

WEDINOS unfortunately do not distinguish between isomers.
 
You'd have to ask them, they do have an email and are usually pretty good at discussing the details of their lab capabilities. I just remember them testing isomers for some other drugs in the past, I think ketamine was one.

Not sure if the equipment and process for doing the same for MDMA would be different.

WEDINOS unfortunately do not distinguish between isomers.
Couldn't find an email address on iec's website.ill have another look tomorrow
 
Are you saying there is a contaminant that someone like me might be sensitive to and feel more than another user who may have a tolerance to it?
Yes, or the other way around .
But you do not take other drugs so, it would not apply to you.
 
A polarimeter examination of meh samples would answer the racemic isomer question.
I can see the eBay sells polarimeters for ~$300 and they are easy to use.
You just have to make sure that the set contains a long polarimeter tube and the lamp.
 
When I emailed International Energy Control before, they told me they do not have the capacity to test for isomers in MDMA. Drugs Data also do not have that capacity.

I would spend $300 to eliminate this as a consideration if the process is relatively easy. I see a huge range of prices and styles on ebay with many of the cheaper ones coming from China. I don't really want to order anything from China right now, but I will look around and see if I can find any locally.

But you do not take other drugs so, it would not apply to you.
I take other hallucinogens (2CB, LSD, Mushrooms), but I don't drink or use opiates/cocaine.
 
I would spend $300 to eliminate this as a consideration if the process is relatively easy.
I will help you with $100 worth of bitcoin if you decide to do it.

I take other hallucinogens (2CB, LSD, Mushrooms), but I don't drink or use opiates/cocaine.
I'd expect only 2CB to have interactions.
If the MDMA was contaminated with a small amount of a potent opiate, then it would be virtually undetectable but an MDMA-only user would feel it, e.g. opiates shrink pupils and make people sleepy.
However an opiate user would not react to the contaminant because he'd have had built up a tolerance to it.

I bet you could take 100mg of pure Magic MDMA, add a 1mcg of a powerful opiate to it and convert it into Meh MDMA that would pass most of the lab tests.
Can the reverse be performed, e.g. taking Meh MDMA with a dose of an anti-opioid agent, such as Narcan ? I do not know.
Does a chemical exist that would inactivate opioids in-vitro, without destroying the MDMA and leaving toxic stuff behind ? I do not know.

A question for Sekio or Vector or other chem Pros:
How would you separate or selectively inactivate Fentanyl Hydrochloride + MDMA Hydrochloride ? ...without running a column.
 
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Its a possibility with some synthesis
such as the route to make mdmethcathinone with L,alanine
produces pure levo product.reducing the L mdmcathinone to an alcohol then to the amphetamine would result in possibly pure levo product.
Or if the lithium ammonia method is used in the alcohol to amphetamine reduction pure Dextro mdma would be the result

I very much doubt it.

The commercial route to methylone (mdmethcathinone) was via the alpha bromoketone and reaction with methylamine, the cathinone product is racemic, therefore MDMA by reduction of commercial methylone is also going to be racemic.

The Alanine, MD Benzene, Friedel Crafts acylation route requires at least 5 steps to methylone and some more to MDMA. If the alcohol is an intermediate then add in an extra step or two there too. It is never going to be used commercially, not ever. Racemic Alanine is way cheaper than L-Alanine which makes the chiral theory even more unlikely.
L-Alanine is dextrorotatory, therefore L-Alanine = d-Alanine = (S)-(+)-Alanine
Look at the absolute configuration of the enantiomers of MDMA and Alanine, L alanine would always give eventually S-MDMA. It really doesn't matter at all what type of reduction is carried out, the configuration at the 2 position is locked. L-Alanine is (2S)-2-aminopropanoic acid which would give a (2S)-cathinone which would give a (2S)-methamphetamine.
Use R and S notation for chiral centers it is much easier to understand. rarely do modern chemists use dextro of levo or d/l or D and L if they can avoid it, because of the huge potential for confusion, use +/- for optical rotation and R and S for absolute configuration.

If racemic MDMA which will not rotate polarized light, has a chiral cut like dextrose-glucose or a chiral counter ion like tartaric acid then a polarimeter is going to see the rotation caused by the cut. Which is why people use chiral HPLC rather than polarimetry. A small amount of glucose rotates polarized light a long way and the thing you want to know is whether the MDMA is chiral rather than whether the combination of all the other junk and MDMA rotates light.
 
A question for Sekio or Vector or other chem Pros:
How would you separate or selectively inactivate Fentanyl Hydrochloride + MDMA Hydrochloride ? ...without running a column.
recrystalise the MDMA hydrochloride from hot isopropanol or similar, the fentanyl if it really is present (which I really doubt) will be in much lower concentrations than the MDMA and so on cooling will stay in solution and the MDMA will crystalise as solids. Same thing would work with quick wash, if the opioid is potent then there must be very small amounts of it, otherwise it would kill you so it is not going to take much solvent to dissolve it so an acetone wash would get rid of it without dissolving too much MDMA.
 
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