What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

[TripSitterNZ]

Okay just a little add. I strongly believe you CAN sleep on the best, truest Magic MDMA. Or at any point. Also, you can have a very sort of- withdrawn, introverted, monged out experience where communication doesn' t want to flow.

Just a mad thought right now- hiamalayan and dead sea salt baths- depending on waxing or waning moon, one you absorb the minerals, the other toxims etc are drawn out.

Also making authentic ghee- it is recommended since ancient indian tradituinal times- to make ghee on a full moon.

The forces of nature are very real and under accounted for. We fall into trap of thinking WE have control, when it is the flow of life.



So serious questiin actually....has anybody tried rolling at different, specific points of the Lunar cycle? Like full, wax8ng, waning moon?

On an eclipse? Im very stoned and sleep dep'd so pinch of salt please.

But this just occured to me. Rolls could be remarkably different , from the same batch, depending on lunar and cosmic influences on physiology, mindset ., energy nature and requirements etc.

Maybe somebody can roll on a full moon, then at the opposite of that ( sorry not really sure what that is at the moment in my major hazy state in life currently ).


Just one final point- i made before- I strongly believe that some form of MehDma has been around way before 2005, even in 90's. I feel this possible truth is forgotten, but could also hold clues.


Sorry of this is off top guys girls. Just sharing my throughts and insights.

Personally i probably rolled 200 + times if not more but i dont count. And my supplies were always bought in bulk so it was eating the same pills or batches til i ran out of them and had to restock. MDMA can flip from sedation to stimulation within the same roll like a wave but of course the sedation is still a sedating form of stimulation your body will be shaking and jaw etc still want to talk alot but no longer move around this also comes into setting of the mdma. If people are taking mdma alone its going to have different effects than in a group setting also the same for the sort of music events your going to. I believe full moons bring out all the lunatics and crazies i have seen schizos i know go even more schizophernic every time the full moon came and the crime increase. While my trips under full moons outside took on extra crazy dimensional travels. With mdma i never acutally bothered to really pay attention to the lunar cycle since i was doing it weekly or twice a week.

Hardstyle hard trance and dark psytrance are the events where you go really fucking crazy on mdma the hard bpm and bass gets you driving. North american raves are dogshit compared to australia and europe. Australian mdma labs were the biggest in the world during early 2000's til mid alot of police busts shut down most of them thus holland became the biggest. Indonesia use to have massive safrole labs til the UN burnt all the trees down. Yet australia was using PMK since 2000 in labs it was all amazing mdma.

We both been eating large doses of mdma so we know how different it becomes past half a gram. Its just like psychedelics you dont know how a drug truly works til you done it 50 times. I been in all sorts of states on rolls seen all manners of crazy shit. Hell on 600 mg i was floored on the ground during winter with my top off and a fan on me so i didn't die from overheating and i literally was not in my room i was hallucinating i was at a full blown rave to the music i was listening to each time i would get sucked into the vision i would come out and a hour had passed within what felt like seconds.

Even in oldschool rave videos you see the difference in how mdma reacts with certain people. UK rave scene was fucking nuts people weren't eating just 80 mg the true ravers were eating 25+ pills on the weekend 50 if they were full time mdma dealers then spend the rest of the week on xannax and repeat it the next weekend.

Many people i knew would roll thurs fri saturday night every fucking week for months on end.

 

[thegreenhand]

Sorry to add in even more anecdotes but I’ll concur with NZ that magic MDMA can be “sedating”. My first roll (with undoubtedly good shit, 5 hrs, pure love, pupil dilation etc.) me and my two homies literally did not move from the couch we were sitting on. Like not once. Just sat there and let the waves of god roll over us as we talked. The conversation was definitely stimulated, though it was my two best friends so we would have talked anyways. It more made us talk about deep, personal things that may not have otherwise shared.

Point is: movement != magic

 

[indigoaura]

@mars2025

What is your goal with blowing up this thread with endless posts that sometimes do not seem to be directed at anything specific or related to anyone specific? What is your point? I asked you a specific question awhile back about how your theory took into account the new users who found meh to be meh and magic to be magic, and you never replied. How does all of this recent stuff you have posted address that query?

There are people who have been reading, contributing, researching, and studying this topic for years. It is obvious from your posts you have not even read the thread from start to finish.

If you had read the thread you would know that multiple samples have been acetone washed and that has not corrected the problem. I'm sure an acetone wash would go a long way towards improving the quality of a dirty pill, as was the case with Le Junk's pill, but it has not seemed to have much impact for those who have tried it with crystal.

So magic is not purity? Seem unlikely that someone had 99% pure MDMA material and then pressed it into that LV pill cut with meth. Or else, magic was indeed decent mdma plus an active cut.

You would also know that samples I personally consumed and sent to a lab and found to be magic were MDMA WITHOUT any active cuts such as meth.

Example: https://www.ecstasydata.org/view.php?id=879

Also, who is saying that magic is not purity? If the problem is an active contaminant, then the issue could be boiled down to purity.

The table that I posted is meant to summarize what has been discussed in this thread in anecdotal reports of magic vs. meh experiences, not summarize Erowid which is readily available for anyone who would like to read it at any time.

What possible point do you have in talking about how much it would cost to build our own lab? Obviously, we do not have the $ to build our own lab. The labs are offering a harm reduction service, and if they are not picking up on something that is having an effect on the user, then they need to adjust their practices. Nobody is trying to de-value the work these labs do. Why are you going off on a whole rant about the cost of lab equipment and paying lab employees?

The table you posted actually makes our point for us. Why are these pills getting stronger and stronger in mg dosage and weaker and weaker in effect?

Not sure exactly which papers you're referring to

...because you haven't read the thread (or the papers, obviously).

Look, I don't want to be hostile, I really don't, and I have been told that is how I can come across sometimes in writing, so I apologize if that is the case. But maybe, just maybe, you should hang for awhile and try to catch up and read all the posted research and get to know people and get familiar with the full topic before just blowing up the thread. I thought your hybrid theory of some people being able to experience meh as magic was really interesting, and we want new ideas and contributions like that, but, you are also bringing up a lot of stuff that has already been addressed.

 

[indigoaura]

@psy997 Your point about smoking is true for me too. I have never been a smoker, but when rolling on good shit, I could put away a pack of menthols because it felt so good to smoke them.

@thegreenhand There is a big difference, in my opinion, between being "blissed out" on the sofa, laying around because it just FEELS so good, getting lost in the music and the softness of the corduroy cushions, and the way your own hair feels...and the mehDMA effect of checking out where nothing feels good, you just want to be very still, because you have no motivation to go anywhere, and you wish the music might stop and the people around you would go away.

I used to end up on the sofa, or the floor, or the beanbag or whatever all the time, because I just drifted there and it felt too good to move. You would still want to talk though, and engage, and you wanted to stay put because it was just SO wonderful.

The two experiences are very different. You might be on the couch the whole time with either one, but for totally different reasons.

 

[AutoTripper]

@AutoTripper As you know from the other thread, I am not opposed to the idea of astrological influences. However, what does not make sense about that is why it would not have been evident previously. If phases of the moon have a significant impact, they would have been impacting my rolls from 2000-2005 as well.

That said, the last time I rolled it was between a full moon and third quarter, and the last time I rolled before that it was first quarter. I am not opposed to aiming for a full moon and new moon, but I doubt there will be significant changes.

Yeah, sorry I could have made it clearer, I don't actually mean to suggest even remotely, that any potential (but in my view, guaranteed subtle astrological influences on rolls) is anything to do with the Meh experiences.

That wasn't my point. It just suddenly occurred to me that this will definitely be playing a parts in our subjective experiences at every single point in our life and it should certainly also relate to MDMA experiences but I have not really seen any discussion on this at all ever I don't think.

So I support your logic that this would not be an explanation at all because of course this will have been the case throughout time since our lives began.

The real point I was making though it's that I do very strongly believe that Mehdma has been around since the early 2000s and 90s as well just not identified or really appraised or considered when there was still so much good product available if you knew where to find it.

 

[AutoTripper]

@AutoTripper unfortunately my last Meh experience was at a full moon party with a bunch of other "conscious people" (I dislike conscious communities) and even a huge cacao ceremony at the beginning. I was feeling amazing on a quarter tab of acid and cacao, the Meh hit, and boom, the classic don't feel good, want to isolate myself, not move, not even smoke cigarettes (another key indicator for me, I smoke like a madman on good MDMA), etc. came on and I moved from an 8.5/10 to 4/10 in subjective wellbeing.



I did misunderstand, thank you.

Haha, one fact- I ate easily over 3000 E's, excluding MDMA. Whole lot of other shit too. Crazy fucker lol.

But- honest to God never in my life have I once taken a single toke on a tailored cigarette, I never even considered it for half a second on pure principle.

I never even smoked a roll up I only used tobacco for a number of years, (2001 to 2005 when I became severely allergic to all forms of tobacco smoke but cigarettes are 100 times worse than rolling tobacco I really cannot go anywhere near tailored cigarettes they are the purest poison man ever invented to be consumed on such a massive scale and infinitely more toxic and poisonous than rolling tobacco), as a joint smoker and purely to combine with cannabis I did accidentally toke on a roll up a number of times thinking it was a joint but immediately passed it on in party situations etc I never ever intentionally smoked tobacco on its own for the sake of tobacco once in my life.

There may well not be another single person on Earth who has a similar history of of poly drug use to myself, especially the heavy ecstasy use, cannabis smoker etc, in all common western party, rave, home environments....


Who has literally never even toked on a cigarette once in their life.

What can I say, I am a man of strong principle, but Im sure a hypocrite at the same time.

 

[AutoTripper]

Sorry to add in even more anecdotes but I’ll concur with NZ that magic MDMA can be “sedating”. My first roll (with undoubtedly good shit, 5 hrs, pure love, pupil dilation etc.) me and my two homies literally did not move from the couch we were sitting on. Like not once. Just sat there and let the waves of god roll over us as we talked. The conversation was definitely stimulated, though it was my two best friends so we would have talked anyways. It more made us talk about deep, personal things that may not have otherwise shared.

Point is: movement != magic

Very true and matches numerous experiences I had myself and observed. But it would still be a truly sublime, magical, encompassing and amazing experience, those mellow, semi sleepy dreamy restful rolls.

Where obviously I can understand how the inferior MDMA discussed when the experience is mongey and sleepy etc the magic just isn't there and it is not a purely blissful comfortable and enjoyable time every single second as it used to be.

 

[user666]

My first roll (with undoubtedly good shit, 5 hrs, pure love, pupil dilation etc.) me and my two homies literally did not move from the couch we were sitting on.

What was the dose?

It strikes me that the differences are quantitative:
- low levels of norepinephrine (or blocked adrenergic receptors) prevent pupil dilation.
- medium levels of norepinephrine (or slightly blocked adrenergic receptors) are enough to cause pupil dilation but not enough to cause hyperkinesia (energy)
- high levels of norepinephrine (and unblocked adrenergic receptors) cause pupil dilation and hyperkinesia.

* Due to some polymorphic mutations a small fraction of population reacts differently to NE levels. This becomes evident in their pupilary response.

 

[thegreenhand]

What was the dose?

It strikes me that the differences are quantitative:
- low levels of norepinephrine (or blocked adrenergic receptors) prevent pupil dilation.
- medium levels of norepinephrine (or slightly blocked adrenergic receptors) are enough to cause pupil dilation but not enough to cause hyperkinesia (energy)
- high levels of norepinephrine (and unblocked adrenergic receptors) cause pupil dilation and hyperkinesia.

* Due to some polymorphic mutations a small fraction of population reacts differently to NE levels. This becomes evident in their pupilary response.

150 mg

 

[Simosom]

@psy997
"Please give feedback on the form (same for both Meh and Magic)."
Magic mdma effects are comming in waves.
After the first peak, you might feel sober and think it's done. But this is just starting, the feeling will continue to come back in waves.
With meh there are no waves, just one peak and after 2 hr you are done.

 

[indigoaura]

@psy997
"Please give feedback on the form (same for both Meh and Magic)."
Magic mdma effects are comming in waves.
After the first peak, you might feel sober and think it's done. But this is just starting, the feeling will continue to come back in waves.
With meh there are no waves, just one peak and after 2 hr you are done.

I had not thought about it, but this has been true for me. The Meh def has a short peak that ends quickly without an encore.

 

[ThreePointCircle]

Hi @psy997 can I get image upload access on the wiki? I wanted to do a page of my TLC experiments

 

[psy997]

Hi @psy997 can I get image upload access on the wiki? I wanted to do a page of my TLC experiments

Hey @ThreePointCircle sure. Lemme see if I can figure it out real quick, otherwise I'll do it in a few hours after I'm back home.

Edit: its working on my end @ThreePointCircle

 

[Negi]

I feel like not enough attention is being paid to set and setting in this thread. For me, the "magic" and uniqueness of MDMA is more or less purely the pro-social and connectivity effects. I would say that 95% of the time during my best rolls is spent sitting down and talking with people, or writing for myself. Obviously these have taken place at smaller personal gatherings or on solo occasions. The MDMA doesn't give me a push to go and dance, but that's because I'd much rather stay talking with my friends, and there might not even be any danceable music being played. I'm also not getting any sexual/erotic effects, because I have platonic relationships with the friends I roll with.

 

[ThreePointCircle]

Hey @ThreePointCircle sure. Lemme see if I can figure it out real quick, otherwise I'll do it in a few hours after I'm back home.

Edit: its working on my end @ThreePointCircle

Thanks, yep works now. Have started a page of TLC. Haven't done wiki formatting before so feel free to tidy what I've done (e.g., don't know if images can go side by side but would look better on that page)

 

[psy997]

I feel like not enough attention is being paid to set and setting in this thread. For me, the "magic" and uniqueness of MDMA is more or less purely the pro-social and connectivity effects. I would say that 95% of the time during my best rolls is spent sitting down and talking with people, or writing for myself. Obviously these have taken place at smaller personal gatherings or on solo occasions. The MDMA doesn't give me a push to go and dance, but that's because I'd much rather stay talking with my friends, and there might not even be any danceable music being played. I'm also not getting any sexual/erotic effects, because I have platonic relationships with the friends I roll with.

Even 40mg of good MDMA plugged has had me writhing on my bed in pleasure before. It's not uncommon for me to spend entire rolls alone moving in ecstasy to music or not. Meh stuff is completely different. I don't want to do anything except lie down with a blanket, and nothing sounds good. No music, no people, no movement, no movies/tv, nothing. It's a patently different experience that set and setting in no way explains.

Another "no" to set and setting is that, IME, I can be having an amazing time on a psychedelic, take Meh, and then go from a magical and attuned experience, to again, feeling completely and totally bleh.

Thanks, yep works now. Have started a page of TLC. Haven't done wiki formatting before so feel free to tidy what I've done (e.g., don't know if images can go side by side but would look better on that page)

I've also never done wikis before, so I'll do some research when I have time.

 

[deficiT]

@OP because world governments have taken your right to bodily autonomy. They've allowed impure, tainted, and inferior medicine to flood the world and made criminals out of people that need medicine and recreation.

Imo, it's really as simple as that. There's just no reliability on product and people don't test as much as they should.

Someone prolly said this a couple times 200 pages back, but it popped up again so here's my lukewarm take.

 

[indigoaura]

I don't want to do anything except lie down with a blanket

Yeah...what is up with that? I definitely get the blanket thing too, partially because I'm cold, but it is also that sleepy vibe. Go away, and leave me alone with this blanket.

Even 40mg of good MDMA plugged has had me writhing on my bed in pleasure before.

Yeah, I could pop 1/2 of a small pill and be totally overcome.

One of my friends was at my house-party once, and she ended up laying on a bed with men surrounding her in a circle. She was rolling all around in the sheets talking about life and flowers and poetry, and all the dudes were just captivated and stroking her hands and her feet while she talked. This was the kind of thing that just happened on ecstasy. "Writhing" is an apt description.

@Negi Set and setting has been discussed, but it does not fit all of these anecdotes, or the extreme difference between the effects. Obviously, if you are not with someone you are into, then you are not going to explore the sexual aspect, and if you are not playing music you are probably not going to dance, and if you don't have a pen and paper, you are probably not going to write. But, if you are the kind of person who usually dances, and you are standing in front of your favorite band, and they are playing your favorite song, you should probably be dancing rather than wishing you could be alone with a blanket. If you have never experienced it, there is probably very little I can say that will adequately explain it.

I have tried the Meh product at home with my partner, at home with close friends, at a friend's house party, at live music events for favorite bands, on vacation, at the beach, in the wilderness etc. etc. It makes no difference. What is the most bizarre to me is how I have been at events where I was super excited, so happy, so looking forward to the roll, ready to have an awesome time, and then taken the pill and just tanked. Everything about "set and setting" should have sent me flying high, and would have with a psychedelic.

On the contrary, with the magic stuff, I remember dropping it in the middle of a fight with my then boyfriend back in the early 00s just to make a fight go away, and BOOM, instant happy and loving life. It could interrupt a horrible mood, awful day, or terrible "set and setting" with pure magic. Shit, that same boyfriend and I dropped ecstasy right after we broke up and before I moved out to hash everything out and talk peacefully in the midst of an ugly breakup. Ecstasy put you in a good place. That was kind of the point.

 

[Simosom]

@indigoaura
"What is the most bizarre to me is how I have been at events where I was super excited, so happy, so looking forward to the roll, ready to have an awesome time, and then taken the pill and just tanked"

This,
I am planning party visit 6 months in advance, happy, looking forward to it,and then tanked

 

[rainey]

I was thinking in terms of the purity of the synthesized MDMA crystal before it's pressed into the pill. So, yes, presence of contaminants not dosage.

My reasoning was that at 99.9% MDMA is MDMA, has to be... Shulgin mentions six synthesis routes in his MDMA paper including the two in PIKHAL. He doesn't ever say that some particular route leads to some MDMA "flavour" that produces a superior roll.

So I initially assumed that to get magic you should simply try to get close to 99.9% pure MDMA crystal (OP's original magic powder seems to be like that).

And in the post you quoted I was adjusting that initial assumption of mine since both Rainey and you observed both magic and meh from street pills



That question was for Rainey whose answers so far have proved very insightful. I'm glad I didn't miss his/her post and followed up with questions. It wasn't to suggest that Rainey should or needs to try bumping dutch crystal. But if Rainey happened to try it already, then his/her experience could provide further insight and data for this thread. I don't have any pre-formed notion of what Rainey's answer here might be

Unfortunately I very rarely snort any drugs and definitely not crushed pills so I can't help on that one sorry.