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What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

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AutoTripper said:
Totally with you on this, as I have openly extolled here many times from my own experience.

It has bothered me that there is this misconception, that 250mg above is an extortionate and dangerous amount per se, it really depends on the user.

Of course I fully respect and support harm reduction and sensible dosing.

But I took these amounts of legit, old skool magic many times, and as long as it was pure clean MDMA, I honestly never felt in any sort of danger or health risk or even uncomfortable.

Like a 1/3 gram of banging MDMA one time. Sublime comeup. Totalky comfortable, just purely at one with all, my higher self.

And damn so happy haha!

A friend I visited with some weed, suddenly got nervous about his returning step father seeing me me and he said in exact words and total awe and amazement- "your eyes look MAD!" With a big emphasis on mad.

I was 100% okay and safe, only issue occured when I tried to drink some beer, it turned my tummy and I laid down concentrating to try and stop the vomit reflex so I didn't lose any MDMA.

I did vomit a little, felt fine the entire time though.

No more alcohol, I finished the gram overnight and had an amazing following day feeling great.

I took 0.5 grams MDMA as a dose, numerous times.
And we (certainly I) took 3 good pills together, many times, 100-150mg.

I honestly never once felt in physical danger. Just rushing incredibly.

So it really depends on the individual. I just think it is a misconception that 250mg or above of is a dangerous dose fullstop.
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I absolutely agree and I have explained this to myself like this "250mg + of old skool mdma is safe" but....."250 mg of modern mdma (because of what they have done to it) is very dangerous". Before 2009 I don't think there were any deaths at all as most of the ones reported in the media always turned out to be something else. But ever since they changed the recipe there have been LOTS of deaths. Everyone thinks its "stronger pills" to blame but I think its whats in the pills not the strength.
 
rainey said:
I absolutely agree and I have explained this to myself like this "250mg + of old skool mdma is safe" but....."250 mg of modern mdma (because of what they have done to it) is very dangerous". Before 2009 I don't think there were any deaths at all as most of the ones reported in the media always turned out to be something else. But ever since they changed the recipe there have been LOTS of deaths. Everyone thinks its "stronger pills" to blame but I think its whats in the pills not the strength.
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Interesting and makes sense. I think I already subconsciously deduced/wondered exactly this. This would go a long way to explaining the firmly founded, austere HR advice and emphasis regarding dosage.

Back then, we never considered a safety risk. If you took more, like 3 amazing 120-150mg pills, you would be floored rolling hard but loving it, and coming round to feel totally great with hours of brilliant experience left, more alert and so centred and at one.

But certainly not feeling shitty, down, miserable, unwell- in relation to dosage.
 
Another bit of anecdotal evidence from 2016 when this thread just stared:

Vichsi: mdma of now is not the same as mdma of old

Borax: This trope has been bouncing around since probably 1995. Certainly as long as I can remember - you can find discussions on the matter in the first days of bluelight even. Every generation thinks MDMA is different somehow to when they were younger.

omgredditgotme: I dunno, it might be purely placebo but when I get my hands on a good pressed pill tested by edata or energy control to be only MDMA it feels exactly like I remember my first rolls feeling. Whereas even DNM powders are a little unreliable as far as effects go, despite testing clean. It's not just me either, heard the same thing regarding the same batches of MDMA from like 20+ people.

 
rainey said:
I absolutely agree and I have explained this to myself like this "250mg + of old skool mdma is safe" but....."250 mg of modern mdma (because of what they have done to it) is very dangerous". Before 2009 I don't think there were any deaths at all as most of the ones reported in the media always turned out to be something else. But ever since they changed the recipe there have been LOTS of deaths. Everyone thinks its "stronger pills" to blame but I think its whats in the pills not the strength.
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Were 14-15 year olds taking 250mg+ of MDMA for their first times back in the day? If you look at the deaths it's almost always teenagers, and usually young female ones (the only death from a single high strength pill that I can find was a 14 year old girl taking a 300mg pill). To me it looks like the UK bingeing culture is to blame for the deaths, as teenagers are introduced to MDMA with extremely heavy doses by peers with sky-high tolerances.
 
I just had a fantastic roll on some crystals. I can't speak to the production method but I've never had bad comedowns from mdma ever in 20 years.
 
DopeM said:
I can't speak to the production method but I've never had bad comedowns from mdma ever in 20 years.
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I personally don't reckon there is a difference between production methods in terms of negative come down as I've also never had a negative come down with both great and shit MDMA.
 
Ok not sure if this has been bought up yet or not but a while ago I seen somewhere selling either fmoc mdma or tboc mdma. this fmoc or tboc is a group that attaches to the amine usually as a protecting group but in this case as a masking group the same way pmk glycidate is just masked pmk. I'm wondering if this is being sold as mdma without removing the tboc or fmoc group as it was
(im sure) intended to be. im not sure if this would hydrolyze, acidify or be enzymatically changed in the stomach or liver back to mdma or possibly into mehmdma. One would think that it would show up on on gcms but gcms has so far in my opinion been sub par and has only been used for i.d.ing mdma and not other differences.
Anyway this is one more thing that needs to be ruled in or out as a cause of meh.
 
Until new analytical info or more detailed tests are done on meh product I don't think any further progress can or will be made.
Anymore posts about doses or setting or how it's different to the good old days, tolerance & loss of magic are just clutter in an already cluttered filing cabinet and isn't helping.we have gathered all the necessary information to make forward progress
on the situation and the ONLY way forward is analytical. Any non chemistry or analytical speculation is no longer useful as it's already covered. firstly we need to start organising phisical analysis of meh to rule out possible theories and as some ppl have started working on that were on our way. I think the next best way to start is the racemic issue. I think this can be ruled in or out using an instrument called a polarimeter.if anyone has experience with one please chime in.
 
draculic acid69 said:
Until new analytical info or more detailed tests are done on meh product I don't think any further progress can or will be made.
Anymore posts about doses or setting or how it's different to the good old days, tolerance & loss of magic are just clutter in an already cluttered filing cabinet and isn't helping.we have gathered all the necessary information to make forward progress
on the situation and the ONLY way forward is analytical. Any non chemistry or analytical speculation is no longer useful as it's already covered. firstly we need to start organising phisical analysis of meh to rule out possible theories and as some ppl have started working on that were on our way. I think the next best way to start is the racemic issue. I think this can be ruled in or out using an instrument called a polarimeter.if anyone has experience with one please chime in.
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I can see your point, but the title of this thread lends itself to discussion of an anecdotal and subjective nature.

How about we start a new thread over in NPD titled 'Qualitative/quantitative analysis of MDMA' or similar and transfer some of the posts from here to get it started? if we're going to go down the pure science route I think it would be more suited over there.
 
F.U.B.A.R. said:
How about we start a new thread over in NPD titled 'Qualitative/quantitative analysis of MDMA' or similar and transfer some of the posts from here to get it started? if we're going to go down the pure science route I think it would be more suited over there
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The wiki. We should be moving serious discussion to mdma.noosworx.com
 
Soon, I will have TIC data from GCMS analysis on three different meh samples. My hands have been tied because of social distancing and an inability to take samples to the post office. Once I have that TIC data, I will need help in analyzing it.

IEC is re-testing the sample I sent them in November, because they never sent me the appropriate results. They are going to look at it in more detail, specifically for byproducts. Interestingly, their top analyst told me they have been getting a lot of complaints that MDMA is "not the same" as it used to be.

@psy997 Is it possible to have a section of the WIKI where GCMS data can be posted and people can analyze/comment?
 
indigoaura said:
Soon, I will have TIC data from GCMS analysis on three different meh samples. My hands have been tied because of social distancing and an inability to take samples to the post office. Once I have that TIC data, I will need help in analyzing it.

IEC is re-testing the sample I sent them in November, because they never sent me the appropriate results. They are going to look at it in more detail, specifically for byproducts. Interestingly, their top analyst told me they have been getting a lot of complaints that MDMA is "not the same" as it used to be.

@psy997 Is it possible to have a section of the WIKI where GCMS data can be posted and people can analyze/comment?
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Great update, fingers crossed. And adding a page to the wiki is straightforward so not a problem (I added the tlc page)
 
Negi said:
Were 14-15 year olds taking 250mg+ of MDMA for their first times back in the day? If you look at the deaths it's almost always teenagers, and usually young female ones (the only death from a single high strength pill that I can find was a 14 year old girl taking a 300mg pill). To me it looks like the UK bingeing culture is to blame for the deaths, as teenagers are introduced to MDMA with extremely heavy doses by peers with sky-high tolerances.
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Yes but this is current, modern MDMA, and I have sort of picked up on the assertion that higher doses of MDMA currently, particularly strongly suspected MehDma, carry more negative side effects.

And as I and @rainey were loosely conjecting (cool word I like that I think it's validl, may be more actually dangerous above say 250mg.

This is all conjecture of course. But the many deaths reported recent years all over, indeed involved mostly young females. I don't believe there was ever the same scale of reported deaths back then.

And besides, the current dosages are much higher, so people are more likely to take whole, 250-300mg pills, than the average young female user was to double drop 2 120-150 mg pills decades back.
 
From my personal experience, all I know is that I used to be a short and skinny teen female, who would sometimes pop 5 pills in a night, and I never got sick afterwards. Now, I weigh more than I did then, and there is a very clear line that I cannot go over without dealing with illness the following week. Maybe it is as simple as age and physical changes, but it definitely seems like there is a contaminant present that only becomes a problem once it crosses a certain dosage threshold.

Analytical testing will reveal what is going on. I have confidence in that.
 
indigoaura said:
From my personal experience, all I know is that I used to be a short and skinny teen female, who would sometimes pop 5 pills in a night, and I never got sick afterwards. Now, I weigh more than I did then, and there is a very clear line that I cannot go over without dealing with illness the following week. Maybe it is as simple as age and physical changes, but it definitely seems like there is a contaminant present that only becomes a problem once it crosses a certain dosage threshold.

Analytical testing will reveal what is going on. I have confidence in that.
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Well, the ancient addage holds true- the medicine/poison is in the dose.
 
F.U.B.A.R. said:
I can see your point, but the title of this thread lends itself to discussion of an anecdotal and subjective nature.

How about we start a new thread over in NPD titled 'Qualitative/quantitative analysis of MDMA' or similar and transfer some of the posts from here to get it started? if we're going to go down the pure science route I think it would be more suited over there.
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Thats a good idea.and it's kind of necessary.this thread grows about a page or two a day and 95%of it is useless talking in circles
 
AutoTripper said:
And besides, the current dosages are much higher, so people are more likely to take whole, 250-300mg pills, than the average young female user was to double drop 2 120-150 mg pills decades back.
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I would certainly not deny that dosages in pills are currently much higher in the past, but as articles I have linked further back in the thread speculated that seems to be the result of a decrease in the price of wholesale MDMA and marketing attempts by the pill manufacturers rather than as a result of changes in the MDMA composition (as many people in this thread have indicated that "mehDMA" is crap at any dosage).

indigoaura said:
From my personal experience, all I know is that I used to be a short and skinny teen female, who would sometimes pop 5 pills in a night, and I never got sick afterwards.
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Did you start off by taking 5 pills though (and all at the same time), or did you work up to it as a result of tolerance to the effects of MDMA? The stories I have found of teenage MDMA deaths have often occurred when teenagers are first introduced to the drug at extremely heavy doses (due to high strength pills or friends/dealers who need extremely doses due to tolerance/abuse).

Dosage timing also seems to be important. New/first time users are more likely to be confused and take as a single dose the total amount that a more experienced user would spread out over a night (as repeated redoses).
 
@Negi I only did the 5 pills thing maybe 3 times total in my life. Usually, I was a 1-3 pills user. I had been experimenting with E for at least a year before I tried taking that many in one evening.
 
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