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Why would you fear death?

It seems really clear to me that life is far more problematic than death

Unless of course it transpires that the 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% chance that the nonsense is true is revealed (and I'm being very generous with those odds)

Even if that were the case , almost all the people I like will be down there anyway and the Devil has all the best tunes (and Drugs too likely)
 
DeadManWalkin' said:
Freedom always isn't a good thing.
There are always things which restrict human wants and needs.
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I think we're ever free, do you?

Desires that goes unfulfilled, the biologial mechanisms we're shackled to.
And once one desire is satisfied, another pops up.

But I'd say the problems of freedom beats the problems of standing in line with the other sheep.
Isn't it better dying early, knowing you did exactly what you wanted (within you power) than growing old and bitter, resentful at the fact that you sold most of your life to some company for a pay check?
 
pulverstaden said:
But I'd say the problems of freedom beats the problems of standing in line with the other sheep.
Isn't it better dying early, knowing you did exactly what you wanted (within you power) than growing old and bitter, resentful at the fact that you sold most of your life to some company for a pay check?
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it definitely would be, to my mind anyway

...but that's assuming the two scenarios are mutually exclusive, which they aren't
 
pulverstaden said:
I think we're ever free, do you?

Desires that goes unfulfilled, the biologial mechanisms we're shackled to.
And once one desire is satisfied, another pops up.

But I'd say the problems of freedom beats the problems of standing in line with the other sheep.
Isn't it better dying early, knowing you did exactly what you wanted (within you power) than growing old and bitter, resentful at the fact that you sold most of your life to some company for a pay check?
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Well, if you enter a voluntary job contract then yes, you are selling your time.
However the point of those contracts is that you can live your life outside of job with higher quality than it would have without the job.
I think that earning things you get is a good philosophy. Hell, society wouldn't work if most of us didn't have that philosophy.
I think you're taking it to a bit extreme.
Maybe take little bit easier job and then you'll have more free time?
Good for you, as long as the decision makes your life better. Nobody else can know our individual needs as good as we ourselves do, so I don't think putting anyone else in the charge of that decision would do any good.
 
DeadManWalkin' said:
Well, if you enter a voluntary job contract then yes, you are selling your time.
However the point of those contracts is that you can live your life outside of job with higher quality than it would have without the job.
I think that earning things you get is a good philosophy. Hell, society wouldn't work if most of us didn't have that philosophy.
I think you're taking it to a bit extreme.
Maybe take little bit easier job and then you'll have more free time?
Good for you, as long as the decision makes your life better. Nobody else can know our individual needs as good as we ourselves do, so I don't think putting anyone else in the charge of that decision would do any good.
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Haha, it's not the first time I hear I'm taking it to a bit extreme.
And I guess I do. But life is so ... absurd, I find it hard to take most things seriously.

Earning things is a good philosophy, but I don't want things. My apartments have all looked like Rusts, except when in a relationship.
I haven't had a job since august, can't say my quality of life has changed all that much.

It has made my life better, actually. Eventually, I'll probably get a real job. But for now, I just wanna focus on what I love to do, not work.

Let me ask you this;
Do you have a hobby or an interest that consumes your thoughts, that makes you mad if you can't work on it?
 
DeadManWalkin' said:
Well I have many things currently going on my life which consume my thoughts.
They annoy the sit out of me if they don't go forward.
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Right?

My dear,
Find what you love and let it kill you. Let it drain from you your all. Let it cling onto your back and weigh you down into eventual nothingness. Let it kill you, and let it devour your remains.
For all things will kill you, both slowly and fastly, but it's much better to be killed by a lover.
Falsely yours, Henry Charles Bukowski"
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I know nothing about your life, but I can say mine has become a different experience all together since I started taking this quote seriously.
Which sounds ridicoulus, but who gives a fuck. And of course, it wasn't a single quote from a dead alcoholic that made me take this decision.
A series of events lead me to this conclusion.

I'm a happy camper. Two years ago I was contemplenting suicide.

Now I realise suicide is a game for optimists game; when their optimism fails them, they turn to the noose, the razrblade, the pills,powder, the gun - if one sees no point in living, how could one possibly see one in dying?

I'm aiming at a rotten bodylandslide on the day I die - all worn out like a fuckdoll in a prison, with the comforting thought that I at least tried to do what I love, instead of what I was expected to.
THis doesn't I don't need money or can go off the grid, but there's beens a definite shift in my attitude. I don't stress the small stuff like I used to.

Reading what you wrote in your opening thread, you're here on overtime. Like, you could've died from that OD and that stabbing, right?

Well, I'm here on OT aswell, and I'm not gonna waste that on mindless drone-shit.

To each his own, but I'd rather have a stroke or a anuerysm after being awake for too long working on a project at 35 then you know, waste most of my time doing braindead shit I don't like. I have to do some braindead shit, but I try to find ways around it or put it down to a minimal.

But then again, I was never an industrious person. Never been ambitious, money has never been a carrot for me - free time to do my thing, that's my gold at the end of the rainbow.
 
Gormur said:
I never got over the anhedonia I developed in my mid-20s, but I did forget that I was depressed. If lacking a fear of death is wanting to live, then that's how I'd describe myself now. I think deep down I always wanted to be a kid and that never changed. Being an adult can be a strange, depressing experience
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I'm not afraid of death. I know what awaits me and it isn't anything I'd call anything. It's a different type of existence that's best described as nothing
 
We fear exactly what we should learn to embrace and prepare for ultimately IMO. It’s the pain, potentially, of dying, that I fear myself, not death itself at all.
 
AutoTripper said:
We fear exactly what we should learn to embrace and prepare for ultimately IMO. It’s the pain, potentially, of dying, that I fear myself, not death itself at all.
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I reckon plenty have far more painful experiences in life than their death though. childbirth, kidney stones , some cluster headaches for example are probably wayyyy more painful than teh vast majority of deaths etc. The fear of pain in death is merely an anxious prediction , it;s exactly what you said it was - a fear, ie not a reality...so mebbe have a look at reframing it which could possibly help with that aspect at least at least

It's hard to prepare for death, and again there's a question over desirability for many reasons I'm too tired to detail. Very difficult also given the reality is something we are not too keen on accepting, to say the very least :) And that is death can, and does...and will...happen anytime ( a few early /unexpected bereavements can help with that, but there are many downsides to that situation too obviously...

There's no guarantee that any of us will even make it to the end of the post we are writing...one day,,,could be any damn day...there will be a moment when it will your last second on Eartth (disaclaimer - at least as 'you' that is), and it's often at a completely unexpected moment,,,brain hemorrhage....heart attack...anneurism, spontaneous human combustion

ii happens when it happens and on that cheery note i must go bed as 4.16am ffs
 
DeadManWalkin' said:
Sorry for your loss. My grandpa has alzaimers. I have told doctors, just kill him - please. So has my father. He doesn't know me anymore, he is just dead soul who is medicaded waiting to leave. Here you have to write the euthanasia thing for yourself, your relatives cant do it. I fucking hate it.
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I hated that he was a live for my grandmother, because she looked after him until the END, like she didn't ever take the easy way out. She did it until she was physically incapable of doing it. And my grandfather was a war hero and a brick layer. He had fingers like sausages. When he was really bad and he had no idea who she was, he was convinced she was trying to poison him. You hear stories like that and you think fuck being dead is worse than being alive. That's a terrible existence for everyone involved.

I used to work as a nurse in a a facility entirely occupied by people with late (and I mean late) stage dementia. They'd constantly walk around and shit themselves. It would just roll out the back of their pants and they'd keep walking and you'd have to stop them and say "hey, hold on a sec" cause they're too far gone at that point to understand. It's just traumatic. So you just clean them up and on they go.

That existence seems horrible (and it probably is, I guess) but I tend to gauge the horror for the carer when the mind is so far gone that it cannot feel pain. The horror is - if it has to exist, at all - that this must be horrible.

I don't know.

I've spent a lot of time with people who others see no value in.
 
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birdup.snaildown said:
I hated that he was a live for my grandmother, because she looked after him until the END, like she didn't ever take the easy way out. She did it until she was physically incapable of doing it. And my grandfather was a war hero and a brick layer. He had fingers like sausages. When he was really bad and he had no idea who she was, he was convinced she was trying to poison him. You hear stories like that and you think fuck being dead is worse than being alive. That's a terrible existence for everyone involved.

I used to work as a nurse in a a facility entirely occupied by people with late (and I mean late) stage dementia. They'd constantly walk around and shit themselves. It would just roll out the back of their pants and they'd keep walking and you'd have to stop them and say "hey, hold on a sec" cause they're too far gone at that point to understand. It's just traumatic. So you just clean them up and on they go.

That existence seems horrible (and it probably is, I guess) but I tend to gauge the horror for the carer when the mind is so far gone that it cannot feel pain. The horror is - if it has to exist, at all - that this must be horrible.

I don't know.

I've spent a lot of time with people who others see no value in.
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I'm busy going through more or less the same scenario and with that i don't fear my own death but rather what will happen to the people im taking care of if im not there anymore. I worry about how they will be treated and looked after, will they get the same love and compasion im giving them or will they suffer even more, that is what scares me of my own death. Not dying itself.
 
ageingpartyfiend said:
I reckon plenty have far more painful experiences in life than their death though. childbirth, kidney stones , some cluster headaches for example are probably wayyyy more painful than teh vast majority of deaths etc. The fear of pain in death is merely an anxious prediction , it;s exactly what you said it was - a fear, ie not a reality...so mebbe have a look at reframing it which could possibly help with that aspect at least at least

It's hard to prepare for death, and again there's a question over desirability for many reasons I'm too tired to detail. Very difficult also given the reality is something we are not too keen on accepting, to say the very least :) And that is death can, and does...and will...happen anytime ( a few early /unexpected bereavements can help with that, but there are many downsides to that situation too obviously...

There's no guarantee that any of us will even make it to the end of the post we are writing...one day,,,could be any damn day...there will be a moment when it will your last second on Eartth (disaclaimer - at least as 'you' that is), and it's often at a completely unexpected moment,,,brain hemorrhage....heart attack...anneurism, spontaneous human combustion

ii happens when it happens and on that cheery note i must go bed as 4.16am ffs
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Exactly. Imagine living 100% by yourself, no friends, family, no charities exist. You place bets at the bookies on when you will die. The cause, the hour, and the minute.

As if we could possibly have any fathom or math to ever predict such a thing lol.

But put every penny on it, you might strike big! Yes! I’m rich! You can say as you float towards the light at the end of the tunnel.
 
birdup.snaildown said:
I hated that he was a live for my grandmother, because she looked after him until the END, like she didn't ever take the easy way out. She did it until she was physically incapable of doing it. And my grandfather was a war hero and a brick layer. He had fingers like sausages. When he was really bad and he had no idea who she was, he was convinced she was trying to poison him. You hear stories like that and you think fuck being dead is worse than being alive. That's a terrible existence for everyone involved.

I used to work as a nurse in a a facility entirely occupied by people with late (and I mean late) stage dementia. They'd constantly walk around and shit themselves. It would just roll out the back of their pants and they'd keep walking and you'd have to stop them and say "hey, hold on a sec" cause they're too far gone at that point to understand. It's just traumatic. So you just clean them up and on they go.

That existence seems horrible (and it probably is, I guess) but I tend to gauge the horror for the carer when the mind is so far gone that it cannot feel pain. The horror is - if it has to exist, at all - that this must be horrible.

I don't know.

I've spent a lot of time with people who others see no value in.
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I would get euthanasia if I had early onset alzheimers. I know people who have done it, for the very reason that they don't want to mindlessly walk corridors shitting themselves.

On the other hand, do the people with dementia really have awareness of their own minds anymore? It makes me wonder.

I can't help but look at this in a sort of spiritual way. Most of our suffering is because of the objects that arise in our minds, including stories about the pain we're experiencing. Without those objects, we just directly experience the world without any story. These people with dementia... they just walk around directly experiencing the world but without a mind, really. They are empty.

It seems like it's the people who care for them that go through a really hard time.

But maybe I'm ignorant of the deeper issues.
 
I agree up to a point. I mean I'm all for the right to live or die, euthanasia should be available to adults. That kind of thing. But I think in some cases of Alzheimer's at least, there's a possibility of partial recovery with proper diet so I'm on the fence about claiming certain conditions to qualify for euthanasia. I just think it should be available to everybody if they truly wish to die. Then if they want to choose a specific method, they can pay for it. Otherwise it should be free
 
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