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Whats the hardest drug you can think of?

guy1234 said:
Again this is the point, it is all down to personal definition, "hard" not actually being a metric of any kind

For instance I have IVed heroin on several occasions many years ago but it was never "hard" to me because I never became addicted to it. It was just a random very pleasant high
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Never heard IV heroin described that way, but yeah I feel you.
guy1234 said:
I have been variously seriously addicted to ketamine, mephedrone, ethylphenidate, amphetamine sulphate, alcohol and am currently trying hard to bring a codeine habit under control. I have experienced much "harder" and more life disrupting/destroying effects from each of these. But nobody in their right mind would say that codeine is a harder drug than heroin

Regarding LSD, it could be considered hard to those who have dramatically negative experiences on it which can affect them long term. In this sense it is "hard" especially considering this can happen on virtually any dose to the inexperienced or poorly prepared. However I can guarantee that meth, heroin, crack etc have ruined and ended many many orders of magnitude more lives. I have taken LSD likely upwards of 100 times ranging from low to excessive doses and despite some difficult experiences have never had any long term negative effects, the opposite really. Beer alone has been more detrimental to my mental and physical health and my life in general

So again the question is meaningless if someone is looking to create a "standard", it is really only relevant asking what the hardest drug is for each individual. For some it'll be weed, for some it'll be hydromorphone, for some it'll be alcohol, for some psylocybin may have proven the most hard-core and altering force in their life...
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Yeah I feel you man.

There are no "hard" drugs, only hard ways to use drugs

Wasn't really arguing against that
 
Fentynal or methadone. Fent for obvious reasons, methadone for the long 1/2 life and how hard it is to get off. Where i live most overdoses are people on methadone shooting fent. I never understood why the clinic would hand someone 100+ mg of methadone when they gave a bad urine sample and was so high they could barely stand
 
methadone is a hard drug, although i used it only in 10mg dosages combined with dhc or codeine, i like to have the phenanthrene type opioids on top of any other opioid. tilidine is an opioid that has the methadone feel but is not that strong and lighter all in all.
 
Of all of the dugs I can think of I think that certain stimulants are hard to beat if you are searching for toxicity.
 
I think that a clear definition of "hard" is required. I have seen A LOT of lives ruined by alcohol. Had several friends die due to their opiate addictions. I know lots of people who are slaves to their benzo habits... Define hard, I'll give you a clear answer.
 
simstim said:
Of all of the dugs I can think of I think that certain stimulants are hard to beat if you are searching for toxicity.
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Meth being a neurotoxin is what seals the deal for me. It's directly poisonous for your brain, just like alcohol. Opiates really aren't that damaging to you, besides the addiction factor and like issues with IV use.
 
deficiT said:
Meth being a neurotoxin is what seals the deal for me. It's directly poisonous for your brain, just like alcohol.
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So is breathing the air in most cities (some obviously being worse than others)
Its an inconvenient part of living in, or in close proximity to an area densely populated by other humans. Thats just life.
That said, i don't believe that any reasonably pure amphetamines, on their own, are any more damaging to cells than an opiate/opioid would be at a comparable dose (whatever that is). And there aren't swaths of reported deaths coming in from stims like with opiates.
 
From what I understand, generally how hard a drug is has to do with 1) how harmful it is to you 2) how addictive it is and 3) how harmful it is to society. And by that definition, nicotine and alcohol are hard. Cannabis, mushrooms and lsd are soft, and mdma and caffeine are medium. Though I guess everyone has their own ideas in their head about what those words mean.
 
tubgirl.jpg said:
I'd say it depends on whether you mean hardest on the body or the mind?
Six of my friends who I grew up with killed themselves within a 3 year span - all of them started slipping for real when they began mixing psychedelics with their opioids and benzos.

Few people lose their shit and sink into psychotic delusions from trying heroin.
A hefty dose of mushrooms, DMT or LSD on the other hand? That's a bye-bye for some.
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I'm not going to argue for psychedelics being the hardest. However, I did tryptamines 1-2x a week for a couple months and it brought up some issues from the past and made me think of things more in the now and swirled them together in a way that had me experiencing anxious and depressed symptoms at work and school that I think reduced my capacity in those arenas. Like it brought up old memories.

I had encyclepedic retrieval of those memories before, but it brought up all the feelings and sensory aspects of them too. I finally went in to see a therapist and I do think it allowed for me to work through those issues a lot better and faster than I could have without those psychedelic experiences and I reconnected with aspects of myself that I thought were lost forever like a renewed capacity for empathy and human connection. I also think I lost at least one great opportunity for better work. Time has yet to tell if I ultimately can make a net good out of those couple of months.

I just bring this up to let people know that psychosis isn't the only mental hazard of psychedelics. They can also bring up issues that can cause pain, anxiety, and depression. Don't take them lightly just because they won't stop you from breathing or give you a heart attack or cause seizures 💙
 
tweakerguy said:
So is breathing the air in most cities (some obviously being worse than others)
Its an inconvenient part of living in, or in close proximity to an area densely populated by other humans. Thats just life.
That said, i don't believe that any reasonably pure amphetamines, on their own, are any more damaging to cells than an opiate/opioid would be at a comparable dose (whatever that is). And there aren't swaths of reported deaths coming in from stims like with opiates.
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Yeah, there's the OD factor with heroin as well I forgot to mention. Yeah, but you also don't have as many people that are completely burnt out with all the light sucked out of their eyes with opiates. Meth might not "kill" people like that, but it certainly burns people down. I've met quite a few of these people in my life, it's sad as shit.
 
I think I equate the ‘hardness’ of drugs with how afraid of them I am based on experience. Drugs I haven’t tried I don’t really think of as hard, though I think some things are so pointless and toxic that they shouldn’t be called drugs. So I rate heroin as hard due to a near death OD on first use. Cocaine as hard because of fear of overwhelming and all consuming compulsivity again. But I’d rate something like a high dose of smoked DMT and maybe IV ketamine as even harder because I’m afraid of that total paralysis and loss of self they induce more than anything.
 
sodium tungstate


Oral administration of sodium tungstate improves cardiac performance in streptozotocin-induced diabetic rats ​

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Oral administration of sodium tungstate improves cardiac performance in streptozotocin-induced diabetic rats - PubMed

Normalization of hyperglycemia and hyperlipidemia is an important objective in preventing diabetes-induced cardiac dysfunction. Our study investigated the effects of sodium tungstate on cardiac performance in streptozotocin-induced (STZ) diabetic rats based on its potential antidiabetic and...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

to be honest its probably not that hard being a salt but ye tungsten is one hard mother
 
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