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What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

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draculic acid69 said:
B

Bright blue means secondary amine correct?
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Yes sir :)

draculic acid69 said:
It’s the risk of LTC that worries me as well. For myself and others... I have theorized (and still do) that the rise in LTC cases correlated with this supposed change in effects/synthesis route.

I’d forever hate myself if I accidentally ruined someone. Hence why the 1-2 potential “meh” batches sit in the back of the closet. Too scared to do anything more with them.

-GC
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Do u have the ability to do a few basic science experiments with it?
[/QUOTE]

Possibly yes, what do you have in mind?

draculic acid69 said:
I've been saying that finding the production route of meh is super important.find out if it's different methods or one single method
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So I had a weird epiphany this morning and it’s been years in this thread so maybe I’ve spoken of this before but I notice that platinum hydrogenation seems to be a source of complaints in the old Hive Archive with a few chemists remarking a lack of potency in the product.

As we know, today’s most common reduction is platinum hydrogenation.

I’m gonna look and see if I can’t find some of those anecdotes again.

-GC
 
For me personally rolls usually take 45min to get going. That said I guess I do feel something not long after ingestion.

I think it’s all personal cuz I remember folks saying they came up in 15min on the old Chi Mints and those were always 45min for me too.


Really good MDMA will start to come on 30-40min in by min 45 or so I’m ramping up hard. For the next 15-30min is the rushing stage, or “blowing up.” Your pupils go black and your damn near hyperventilating from the rush of euphoria that fills every cell of your body, it’s exhilarating. Usually if it’s intense enough I’ll need to excuse myself for a second until it gets to a manageable level again.

-GC
 
G_Chem said:
So I had a weird epiphany this morning and it’s been years in this thread so maybe I’ve spoken of this before but I notice that platinum hydrogenation seems to be a source of complaints in the old Hive Archive with a few chemists remarking a lack of potency in the product.
As we know, today’s most common reduction is platinum hydrogenation.
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Yes, I remember reading about that, too, but my chemistry knowledge is not advanced enough to even theorize what additional compounds can be created by this hydrogenation, that the other synth methods cannot create.
As far as I know, most of the other methods also synthesize the ketone PMK first and then go onto converting it to the MDMA base.

I think that pure PMK is PMK regardless where it comes from (saffrole, piperonal, glycidate, etc...), but some batches of impure PMK might contain certain contaminants, which this platinum hydrogenation converts into something bad coincidentally, while other types of reactions that convert PMK --> MDMA, do not convert these PMK contaminants at all (or convert them into something neutral).

In other words, if this platinum hydrogenation is the culprit, then either:
A] it converts pure PMK into MDMA + crap (side products)
B] it always converts pure PMK into pure MDMA ...but if the PMK contains contaminants then it converts them into additional crap.

As usual, the name of the game is: "Name the Crap".

This problems is elusive because our human minds tend to look for only one cause and in this case we might have two causes, i.e. Specific PMK Contaminants + Platinum Hydrogenation.
 
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The best guess that I can come up with my basic chemistry knowledge is that whatever is left over after converting the PMK-Glycidate into the PMK, gets hydrogenated into something bad if it is not removed.
I think converting PMK-Glycidate into the PMK is called reverse Darzen condensation. This reaction produces PMK and some leftovers. What are they? Glycidic acid ? Acrylic acid? Glycidol? Glycidamide ?

What do you get when you hydrogenate these leftovers ?
 
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Good question! I think you are on to something. Someone wrote the following on reddit/theehive: "PMK glycidate is cheap and easy way for unskiled bastards to get to MDP2P and synthese unproper stuff, mostly impure", which aligns with your hypothesis. Hopefully the ban on PMK glycidate will lead to better product in a not to distant future.
 
PsychedelicSummer said:
Someone wrote the following on reddit/theehive: "PMK glycidate is cheap and easy way for unskiled bastards to get to MDP2P and synthese unproper stuff, mostly impure"
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Could you ask him what impurities usually remain after converting the PMK-Glycidate into PMK ?
 
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user666 said:
Yes, I remember reading about that, too, but my chemistry knowledge is not advanced enough to even theorize what additional compounds can be created by this hydrogenation, that the other synth methods cannot create.
As far as I know, most of the other methods also synthesize the ketone PMK first and then go onto converting it to the MDMA base.

I think that pure PMK is PMK regardless where it comes from (saffrole, piperonal, glycidate, etc...), but some batches of impure PMK might contain certain contaminants, which this platinum hydrogenation converts into something bad coincidentally, while other types of reactions that convert PMK --> MDMA, do not convert these PMK contaminants at all (or convert them into something neutral).

In other words, if this platinum hydrogenation is the culprit, then either:
A] it converts pure PMK into MDMA + crap (side products)
B] it always converts pure PMK into pure MDMA ...but if the PMK contains contaminants then it converts them into additional crap.

As usual, the name of the game is: "Name the Crap".

This problems is elusive because our human minds tend to look for only one cause and in this case we might have two causes, i.e. Specific PMK Contaminants + Platinum Hydrogenation.
Click to expand...
Platinum hydrogenation is used every now and then but imagine how much you'd need to reduce a ton of pmk.it would be a couple of kilos at least and on the mass production scale(hundreds of kg to tonnes) I don't think the cost of platinum is doable.if u can get tonnes of pmk u can just use HG/Al amalgam or sodium borohydride or do the leuckart rxn.no way your gunna buy hundreds of thousands of dollars of equipment and platinum metal to do what can be done easily for less money.i don't see platinum reduction being the culprit.
 
user666 said:
Yes, I remember reading about that, too, but my chemistry knowledge is not advanced enough to even theorize what additional compounds can be created by this hydrogenation, that the other synth methods cannot create.
As far as I know, most of the other methods also synthesize the ketone PMK first and then go onto converting it to the MDMA base.

I think that pure PMK is PMK regardless where it comes from (saffrole, piperonal, glycidate, etc...), but some batches of impure PMK might contain certain contaminants, which this platinum hydrogenation converts into something bad coincidentally, while other types of reactions that convert PMK --> MDMA, do not convert these PMK contaminants at all (or convert them into something neutral).

In other words, if this platinum hydrogenation is the culprit, then either:
A] it converts pure PMK into MDMA + crap (side products)
B] it always converts pure PMK into pure MDMA ...but if the PMK contains contaminants then it converts them into additional crap.

As usual, the name of the game is: "Name the Crap".

This problems is elusive because our human minds tend to look for only one cause and in this case we might have two causes, i.e. Specific PMK Contaminants + Platinum Hydrogenation.
Click to expand...
Again this highlights the need to determine the route meh was synthesized by.one route or multiple routes.this will answer the question.
 
G_Chem said:
Yes sir :)



Do u have the ability to do a few basic science experiments with it?

Possibly yes, what do you have in mind?
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Testing to see if it's racemic and testing b.p of the freebase.
Also testing m.p , b.p , and decomp point of the salt. Solubility of impurities
in acetone to see if it dissolves away stuff that might be causing the meh effect to test the impurity theory. These are what I would try.
 
draculic acid69 said:
Platinum hydrogenation is used every now and then but imagine how much you'd need to reduce a ton of pmk.it would be a couple of kilos at least and on the mass production scale(hundreds of kg to tonnes) I don't think the cost of platinum is doable.
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In this reaction, platinum is neither a precursor nor a reagent. You know what a catalyst is, don't you ?

I would like to hear from the Pros what is the catalytic activity of platinum in this hydrogenation process.
Without this info, it is impossible to calculate how much platinum is needed to produce this 1 ton of hydrogenated product.
 
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user666 said:
In this reaction, platinum is not a precursor nor a reagent. You know what a catalyst is, don't you ?
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Yes I do.just bcoz it's not a precursor nor a reagent doesn't mean u don't have to buy a shit load of it.just bcoz its
possible to regenerate it doesn't mean its worth the effort of taking time to do it.its also a fire risk as it has a tendency to spontaneously ignite.on mass scale it's more time,effort and expense than its worth.
 
draculic acid69 said:
Solubility of impurities in acetone to see if it dissolves away stuff that might be causing the meh effect to test the impurity theory.
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That is not a very good test when the impurities have the same solubility in acetone.
As far as I remember, this has been already tried in this thread,
 
It takes about 6g of platinum to reduce a kilo of precursor which isn't much on the kilo scale but seeing as how this meh shit is on several different continents and is seen often enough to be an ongoing consistent problem that has turned the scene into a lucky dip of maybe meh maybe magic were talking about synth on the multi ton scale not kilo scale.250kgs of precursor requires
1.5 kgs of platinum at a price of $25000 per kilo meaning $37000
per 250kg batch when the leuckart or the Al/HG or sodium borohydride can be used for 1/10th of that price.its just not an attractive option on that scale.then other than price u have to have a vessel capable of holding that much liquid that can hold hydrogen gas at elevated pressure and rapidly stir hundreds of litres of chemicals and you've got the risk of all that hydrogen gas around flammable liquids with a catalyst that likes to catch fire when exposed to air.the equipment costs will be significant.
Overall not a great option for large scale
 
draculic acid69 said:
Platinum hydrogenation is used every now and then but imagine how much you'd need to reduce a ton of pmk.it would be a couple of kilos at least and on the mass production scale(hundreds of kg to tonnes) I don't think the cost of platinum is doable.if u can get tonnes of pmk u can just use HG/Al amalgam or sodium borohydride or do the leuckart rxn.no way your gunna buy hundreds of thousands of dollars of equipment and platinum metal to do what can be done easily for less money.i don't see platinum reduction being the culprit.
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Remember though the catalyst can be recovered fairly easily and used again. They recycle the catalyst cuz otherwise your right the cost would be insanity.

-GC
 
Question for ravers who used product in the 90’s, maybe some of you possibly into the early 2000’s... Did the pills ever have a tangy taste to them? Was anything different to the taste back then.

-GC
 
G_Chem said:
Question for ravers who used product in the 90’s, maybe some of you possibly into the early 2000’s... Did the pills ever have a tangy taste to them? Was anything different to the taste back then.

-GC
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no i nether bothered to acutally taste them just throw it down your mouth with water. The only time i ever taste mdma is in the drip and less pure product that is usually quite a speedy high added to it tastes even worse than more pure product.
 
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