What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

[draculic acid69]

Remember though the catalyst can be recovered fairly easily and used again. They recycle the catalyst cuz otherwise your right the cost would be insanity.

-GC

Its quite difficult to recover the catalyst as it's so fine it goes through most filters. Also if celite is used it would have to be redissolved in aqua regia taking days of reflux and evaporating and rehydrogenating.probably 3-5 days work at least.above kilo scale it's not a smart move.

 

[user666]

It takes about 6g of platinum to reduce a kilo of precursor
...1.5 kgs of platinum at a price of $25000 per kilo meaning $37000
...the equipment costs will be significant.
Overall not a great option for large scale

If that catalyst to reagent ratio indeed is 1:166 and the catalyst cannot be recovered economically, then I will have to agree that it is not a great option on a large scale.

I would like someone who has experience with this reaction to confirm this.

 

[user666]

Its quite difficult to recover the catalyst as it's so fine it goes through most filters.

What if they use a finely woven mesh/screen of platinum and recirculate ingredients through it ?

 

[user666]

Question for ravers who used product in the 90’s, maybe some of you possibly into the early 2000’s... Did the pills ever have a tangy taste to them? Was anything different to the taste back then.

Unfortunately I did not taste them but I remember someone in this thread describing the taste difference precisely and claiming that he was able to detect Meh MDMA this way reliably.

 

[G_Chem]

Its quite difficult to recover the catalyst as it's so fine it goes through most filters. Also if celite is used it would have to be redissolved in aqua regia taking days of reflux and evaporating and rehydrogenating.probably 3-5 days work at least.above kilo scale it's not a smart move.

It must not be too difficult because the most recent data shows PT hydrogenation as the most commonly used reduction when looking at MDMA analyzed in Aus a few years back.

Palladium catalyst is very easy to recover I’m gonna assume platinum isn’t much different in recovery.



So guys I might have an interesting clue... A sample of expected “2cb” was analyzed that was purchased in Mexico. It contained no 2cb but one of the ingredients was MDMA as well as 5x the amount of that MDMA of n-acetyl-mdma.

This impurity has never been picked up by EData but has been an impurity that’s been around for awhile based on some literature I’ve found. I’ll continue to dig to see what I find.

I’m shocked at the fact there is 5x the amount, that means that MDMA before being put into this mixed product was essentially mostly n-acetyl-mdma. I wanna know what synthesis route this originated from.

I do know GAA is used in the PT hydrogenation, would this maybe be the cause of our impurity. I wonder if this may be potentially our culprit impurity.

-GC

 

[user666]

I do know GAA is used in the PT hydrogenation, would this maybe be the cause of our impurity.

GAA = Glacial Acetic Acid ?
If "yes", what is its function ?

P.S.
I remember that some old recipe for Meth used acetic acid to make phenylacetone (P2P). Could PMK be made in a similar manner?

 

[G_Chem]

GAA = Glacial Acetic Acid ?
If "yes" what is its function ?

P.S.
I remember that some old recipe for Meth used acetic acid to make phenylacetone (P2P).

Yes, I don’t exactly remember the function much other than it increases yields compared to the same hydrogenation done without. I’d have to hunt through old Hive threads again.


In regards to the pink “2cb” powder which had the weird n-acetyl-MDMA in it. Another batch of supposed 2cb was analyzed sent from Columbia which had similar ratios of ingredients (likely the same producer) but didn’t show the n-acetyl-mdma. I’m wondering if this is a clue to the labs relative incompetence or if the producer really did change the ingredients that much.

-GC

 

[user666]

TLC solvent is usually ethyl acetate and hexane I think.not 100% sure so double check it.

I heard good things about Acetonitrile, too.

 

[G_Chem]

A research article diving into some analysis done on Gummy’s by Energy Control from 2017 showed n-acetyl-MDMA along with MDMA in one sample.

I’m starting to wonder how common this impurity really is...

-GC

 

[user666]

Continuing my dilettanteous guesswork, note that Wikipedia states that Glycidol may cause "central nervous system depression, followed by central nervous system stimulation".

Is it possible that some Glycidol is produced when PMK-Glycidate is converted to PMK ?
What about Glycidamide ?

What would Platinum hydrogenation make out of them ?

 

[G_Chem]

Continuing my dilettanteous guesswork, note that Wikipedia states that Glycidol may cause "central nervous system depression, followed by central nervous system stimulation".

Is it possible that some Glycidol is produced when PMK-Glycidate is converted to PMK ?
What about Glycidamide ?

What would Platinum hydrogenation make out of them ?

So pretty sure few years back we discussed this a bit and did reason it could be an issue. It’d take some digging back.


After looking around it appears the n-acetyl-mdma is an impurity likely related to the Leuckart. This would also make sense coming from Central/South America where this route is likely more prevalent.

-GC

 

[ThreePointCircle]

@ThreePointCircle What solvents have you used with your TLC plates? I want to try column chromatography to clean my Meh-DMA and @sekio said that TLC solvent should work.

From some paper or other:

System 1 - Ethyl acetate : Methanol : Water : Ammonia as 95 : 3.5 : 1.5 : 0.75 by volume
System 2 - Acetone : Ammonia as 100 : 0.5 by volume

Neither worked well but that may have been overloading of sample. I'm going to start again, as I have now sorted out my capillaries. Have also had hexane suggested to me (as @draculic acid69 also mentioned) and also triethylamine instead of ammonia but I haven't got any of that yet.

I did also have a play with column chromatography but without a suitable solvent system worked out it was rather pointless. Worked out how to run a column though so once we have a decent solvent system for the column and TLC of the fractions we should be good to go.

All about the TLC really...

 

[nznity]

Ok. Felt the first alerts after about 10 minutes. Knew straight away it wasnt going to be overwhelming. Straight away had an intense desire to redose (first sign of meh product - always want more but never get there). So after half an hour did another 90mg. Went very cold and sedated. No pupil dilation but nice body rushes and some eye wiggles. Felt slightly horny, but couldn't be arsed to do anything about it. Hit the 2 hour mark and I was fast asleep!

FML

Man you serious??? I've had meh before but the last 3 times I've done mdma on the other side of the pond theyve Been Spectacular. Especially the last Time someone invited me 3 fingers of mdma i was rolling balls. It's weird cause you're next to holland, the product In the uk should be outstanding.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Man you serious??? I've had meh before but the last 3 times I've done mdma on the other side of the pond theyve Been Spectacular. Especially the last Time someone invited me 3 fingers of mdma i was rolling balls. It's weird cause you're next to holland, the product In the uk should be outstanding.

Yeh, but that's just it, it's not. Since the Dutch took over mass production of MDMA it's all turned to shit IMO. They did the fuckin same with amphetamine sulphate in the 80s and now it's not worth a wank..

 

[nznity]

Yeh, but that's just it, it's not. Since the Dutch took over mass production of MDMA it's all turned to shit IMO. They did the fuckin same with amphetamine sulphate in the 80s and now it's not worth a wank..

That sucks man, i have a theory though why there's a Lot of good quality drugs in Perú. It's cause of the Cocaine, i think large scale dealers trade good quality coke for pills AND mdma. Those drugs are worth More down here AND same with the coke over there
Everybody wins.

 

[Deleted member 521610]

It must not be too difficult because the most recent data shows PT hydrogenation as the most commonly used reduction when looking at MDMA analyzed in Aus a few years back.

Palladium catalyst is very easy to recover I’m gonna assume platinum isn’t much different in recovery.



So guys I might have an interesting clue... A sample of expected “2cb” was analyzed that was purchased in Mexico. It contained no 2cb but one of the ingredients was MDMA as well as 5x the amount of that MDMA of n-acetyl-mdma.

This impurity has never been picked up by EData but has been an impurity that’s been around for awhile based on some literature I’ve found. I’ll continue to dig to see what I find.

I’m shocked at the fact there is 5x the amount, that means that MDMA before being put into this mixed product was essentially mostly n-acetyl-mdma. I wanna know what synthesis route this originated from.

I do know GAA is used in the PT hydrogenation, would this maybe be the cause of our impurity. I wonder if this may be potentially our culprit impurity.

-GC

Theres a new drug in south american made by colobiam cartels called TUSSY its a pink crystal or powder suppose to be 2CB but the effects are pretty strange its like cocaine at a low dose ketamine at high dose and inbetween something else. So these south americans are cooking up all sorts of weird shit to take with wild mixes.

 

[nznity]

Theres a new drug in south american made by colobiam cartels called TUSSY its a pink crystal or powder suppose to be 2CB but the effects are pretty strange its like cocaine at a low dose ketamine at high dose and inbetween something else. So these south americans are cooking up all sorts of weird shit to take with wild mixes.

There's tons of that shit In my country, i tried one.bump at a party but didnt feel shit cause a friend gave me a bag of 2g of mdma AND stuck my finger there like 3 Tims AND a random guy gave me a few bumps of coke. But I've seen ppl enjoy that shit a lot, they seem pretty faded.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Theres a new drug in south american made by colobiam cartels called TUSSY its a pink crystal or powder suppose to be 2CB but the effects are pretty strange its like cocaine at a low dose ketamine at high dose and inbetween something else. So these south americans are cooking up all sorts of weird shit to take with wild mixes.

Yeh. There's an old drug in my country called PUSSY. You stick your tongue in it and suck it all up. It sometimes stinks of fish and tastes like arse, but occasionally you get rewarded with an explosion. Fuck TUSSY, lick PUSSY...

 

[OzzBozz]

What MDMA Therapy Did For Me

I did MDMA therapy.

medium.com

I enjoyed reading this alot. I haven't done MDMA in years because the last two times i obtained it from sources who claimed it was so pure and so good (and there seemed to be a lot of verification of this or so it appeared). Howeved, i felt like the the quality was the meh-mdma that people speak of. I had my first mdma experience in 2007 and the quality of MDMA i had access to at the time was what i believe G calls "amazing". However, i wasn't using it for therapeutic reasons and I'd really like to revisit it with that objective in mind.

 

[AutoTripper]

@G_Chem just quick comment on your question about 90's vs early 2000 pills and any noticeable change, regarding "tangyness".

I really can't be very subjective about this. In my mind, the better/best presses I was getting 2000-2005 were a lot better, stronger and cleaner than I got on average during the 90's.

But I definitely saw it as a trademark, as did others, of a really quality MDMA pill, if it fizzed on your tongue by contact.

People actually sold me pills this way. They were friggin amazing, like the best. That was 2000. So tangyness I have always associated with good clean and legit MDMA pills.

I know that doesn't answer your question and likely way off track, but I felt compelled to add my memory and impression.