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What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

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IF the cops could stop raiding all the mdma destined for NZ and Australian shores that would be great fucking another bust over a ton worth of mdma suppose to come here.

 
Pharmacological characterization of ecstasy synthesis by-products with recombinant human monoamine transporters* Christian Pifl, Gabor Nagy, Sándor Berényi, Alexandra Kattinger, Harald Reither and Sándor Antus Center for Brain Research (C.P., A.K., H.R.), Medical University of Vienna, Austria; Institute of Pharmacognosy (G.N.), University of Szeged, Hungary. Institute of Organic Chemistry (S. B., S.A.), University of Debrecen, Hungary.


@vecktor is this what you were talking about. Something more then just a conference that never even made it? I found a JPET #84426 , Seems like this is the supplemental to it. that @TripSitterNZ posted?
 
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IF the cops could stop raiding all the mdma destined for NZ and Australian shores that would be great fucking another bust over a ton worth of mdma suppose to come here.



Seems like that's the dutch garbage anyways,

The problem is MOST clandestine chemists use documented routes. They don't "think outside the box" there are defiantly some unregulated ketones, ahyldes, alcohols and such I can think of... you can get into OZ and new Zealand.

All people think of is oh whats this documented helional route and go off that, they don't think of how to go from helional to MDP2P... or random shit like that. There are documented high yielding routes. You just gotta dig science journals not hive stuff... And with countries regulating glycidate and safrole, a lot of already have backup routes and chemicals. Of course when people start talking things get popular then regulated... so we would like to keep these chemicals to ourselfs

TBH someone can read TS2 and develop their own MDMA routes for sure, they just can't read it as recipes but more as a map and compass on how it all works.
 
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Seems like that's the dutch garbage anyways,

The problem is MOST clandestine chemists use documented routes. They don't "think outside the box" there are defiantly some unregulated ketones, ahyldes, alcohols and such I can think of... you can get into OZ and new Zealand.

All people think of is oh whats this documented helional route and go off that, they don't think of how to go from helional to MDP2P... or random shit like that. There are documented high yielding routes. You just gotta dig science journals not hive stuff... And with countries regulating glycidate and safrole, a lot of already have backup routes and chemicals. Of course when people start talking things get popular then regulated... so we would like to keep these chemicals to ourselfs

TBH someone can read TS2 and develop their own MDMA routes for sure, they just can't read it as recipes but more as a map and compass on how it all works.
i know where gangs just get straight PMK from their triad buddies in china no glyicdate or what no infact if you know some people its super cheap to source here from them already. I know they use leckart because clandestine labs for mdma here had stocked up on formaleydhes and other things. Its just mass amounts that could arrive here would make it alot cheaper overall. So far even ounces do not come out under a $100 a gram.
 
i know where gangs just get straight PMK from their triad buddies in china no glyicdate or what no infact if you know some people its super cheap to source here from them already. I know they use leckart because clandestine labs for mdma here had stocked up on formaleydhes and other things. Its just mass amounts that could arrive here would make it alot cheaper overall. So far even ounces do not come out under a $100 a gram.


Drugs in OZ and NZ have been way over priced. I remember going to the oregon eclipse and heard a deal go down with someone from oz. He paid $2,800 USD an ounce of cocaine 28 grams, and bragging he got a good deal at $10 .1 ... $10 a point to the gram to the oz... shit could have been garbage, or cut, Hell that was day 1-2 of festival drugs got more expensive day 5-6 LMAO. No american would pay $2800 for an oz..
 
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Drugs in OZ and NZ have been way over priced. I remember going to the oregon eclipse and heard a deal go down with someone from oz. He paid $2,800 USD an ounce of cocaine 28 grams, and bragging he got a good deal at $10 .1 ... $10 a point to the gram to the oz... shit could have been garbage, or cut, Hell that was day 1-2 of festival drugs got more expensive day 5-6 LMAO. No american would pay $2800 for an oz..
hahaha man cocaine just arrived on these shores in larger amounts this year a OZ for uncut cocaine was over $13000. Make a 70-80% cut and people then selling that shit on the street for over $400 a gram
 
Jesus it makes drugs not even worth doing if you have to pay that amount... IMO those that take advantage like that don’t last long in the selling game, karma is real. I’ve seen my fair share of greedy dealers wind up with the law on their tail.

Yea 2800 is stupid high.. I’d be embarrassed, that’s MORE than single gram prices of really high quality sniff.

-GC
 
Jesus it makes drugs not even worth doing if you have to pay that amount... IMO those that take advantage like that don’t last long in the selling game, karma is real. I’ve seen my fair share of greedy dealers wind up with the law on their tail.

Yea 2800 is stupid high.. I’d be embarrassed, that’s MORE than single gram prices of really high quality sniff.

-GC
Certain drugs are very hard to get into this country since we are so remote. Heroin is impossible to get here. Streets price for pressies range from $40-70 depending on how many are around. prices of uncut meth are still over $500 a gram. Triads are making billions here and now cartels have seen what people are willing to pay for coke they are now targeting NZ for mass shipments so the DEA setup a office here.
 
Pharmacological characterization of ecstasy synthesis by-products with recombinant human monoamine transporters* Christian Pifl, Gabor Nagy, Sándor Berényi, Alexandra Kattinger, Harald Reither and Sándor Antus Center for Brain Research (C.P., A.K., H.R.), Medical University of Vienna, Austria; Institute of Pharmacognosy (G.N.), University of Szeged, Hungary. Institute of Organic Chemistry (S. B., S.A.), University of Debrecen, Hungary.


@vecktor is this what you were talking about. Something more then just a conference that never even made it? I found a JPET #84426 , Seems like this is the supplemental to it. that @TripSitterNZ posted?

My only concern with this paper is the conclusion "In conclusion, we have found that by-products of illegal ecstasy synthesis can interact with the primary sites of action of MDMA, the monoamine transporters, and were active with similar potency as MDMA"

Similar potency, so at least in regards to these suspects it kinda rules out their impact at trace levels, no? Since it seems like with this theory its either, they're missing it since its in trace amounts, or they're missing it entirely. At least for MDP2P, not mentioned in the paper but a known impurity nonetheless, I think they're missing it due to the low concentration, Indigo's sample was one of the few ED detected it and it had a whopping 5:1 MDMA to MDP2P, other samples had similar-ish amounts
 
How common are the side effects like pupil dialation, eye wiggles, jaw clenching in relation to real magic MDMA vs Meh? Though the intensity may vary in person to person, with real magic MDMA in moderate doses, it is generally the same across the board from what I've seen over the decades when dealing with the real thing...

Real magic MDMA from it's glory days and much less available in 2019 has pupils like saucers, barely any iris, eyes shaking out of your head, loved up tactile sensations during massages or skin touching, jaw clenching your chin off your face, intense long lasting peak, etc.

If there were metrics (let's say: 1 out of 10 with the larger number being the greatest effect) to determine these physical observations for each category, real magic MDMA would rate a 10 across the board, every single time, by virtually everyone who had it.

These physical side effects are notably lacking with Meh. Low empathy, low tactile sensation, increased lethargy. Though the jaw clenching may be present but minimal, pupil dialation minimal, little to no eye wiggles during a peak (if any peak is even noticable for that matter). Veteran and new rollers alike would likely rate it very low with the same scale. (tolerance aside in newb/virgin roller controls, reagent tested positive as MDMA, yet the effects of which is regularly reported to be Meh like now a day)

If the amount of true MDMA in mg weight is equally available in two separate samples (one magic and one meh), where the meh samples had been tested and exclusively shown to have impurities, dimers, regioisomers, or other contamination through a clumsy clansestine cooking process and/or certain precursors that INHIBIT the serotonin or mechanisms which create the magic, that would surely be the culprit. Right?

There isn't any doubt that MDMA is MDMA. But there certainly are variables in play that are ultimately impacting how we respond to one batch of magic vs the other batch of meh with all things considered.

Yes, the pupil dilation aspect is THE thing that in my mind is undeniable and the proof that something is wrong with the substance itself. The rest can all be subjective to a certain point but pupil dilation is a verifiable (by others than the person itself) and is consistently correlated to the MDMA experience vs MehDMA experience. Back in the day people with huge tolerances who were completely burnt out still had huge pupils even if they were barely feeling the effects from the drug.

Even MORE puzzling is the fact that people take wayyy larger doses now (pills dosed 200-400 mg WTF !!) and STILL don't get dilated pupils.
 
Similar potency, so at least in regards to these suspects it kinda rules out their impact at trace levels, no?

@Hilopsilo I would have to do more research on this, but I do not think that is necessarily true. It would depend on how much affinity the substance has for the receptor, absorption rates etc. A substance with high affinity for a given receptor may bind to and/or block that receptor even with trace amounts, even if there was no observable effect.
 
MDA is of somewhat similar potency to MDMA, more potent but not by too too much. That said I can feel as little as 5-10mg MDA mixed into the MDMA. I’ve also noticed people claiming they can feel the MDA in some “G6” presses, when EData shows that when they do have it, it’s usually in trace amounts. IMO you still need to be experienced but it can be felt.

I think it’s reasonable to think certain impurities could alter the effect with just a few % of the overall mass.

-Gc
 
My only concern with this paper is the conclusion "In conclusion, we have found that by-products of illegal ecstasy synthesis can interact with the primary sites of action of MDMA, the monoamine transporters, and were active with similar potency as MDMA"

Similar potency, so at least in regards to these suspects it kinda rules out their impact at trace levels, no? Since it seems like with this theory its either, they're missing it since its in trace amounts, or they're missing it entirely. At least for MDP2P, not mentioned in the paper but a known impurity nonetheless, I think they're missing it due to the low concentration, Indigo's sample was one of the few ED detected it and it had a whopping 5:1 MDMA to MDP2P, other samples had similar-ish amounts
The investigation of the human versions of the factors which are decisively involved in the in vivo action of amphetamine related compounds is also the major advantage of our transfected cell approach. On the other hand, a homogenous population of cultured cells heterogously expressing proteins cannot replace experiments in animals for obtaining data about neurotoxic effects although the importance of animal experiments appears to be weakened by the considerable differences in the toxic reaction to MDMA between various species.
 
Jesus it makes drugs not even worth doing if you have to pay that amount... IMO those that take advantage like that don’t last long in the selling game, karma is real. I’ve seen my fair share of greedy dealers wind up with the law on their tail.

Yea 2800 is stupid high.. I’d be embarrassed, that’s MORE than single gram prices of really high quality sniff.

-GC


A) it was an international festival. B) there was ALOT of customers. Dude could have easily said I could sell these grammie for $100 each anyways so no discount. Plus selling an OZ is kinda a huge risk at a festival lmao as an american I would have bartered, but dude was thinking he got a deal so more power to him
 
Yea I was gonna go but other festivals called my name.. I don’t care who you are, where your from, you always try for a better deal when it comes to bulk pricing. But as you said, if he was happy.. Then he was happy. Not my money lol. Those are the grade A custy types that dealers are hunting for.

-GC
 
Between scanning through posts on r/mdma and seeing pics of people with pupils the size of dinner plates and the posts here where people are reporting they were able to get their hands on magic in 2018, or even 2019, it sounds like there is still good MDMA floating around out there, it's just hard to find.

I mean...not EVERY batch being made in the Dutch labs/sold on DNMs can be meh, can it?
 
Between scanning through posts on r/mdma and seeing pics of people with pupils the size of dinner plates and the posts here where people are reporting they were able to get their hands on magic in 2018, or even 2019, it sounds like there is still good MDMA floating around out there, it's just hard to find.

I mean...not EVERY batch being made in the Dutch labs/sold on DNMs can be meh, can it?
No just a large % is meh it seems like those blue punishers are fire... better then checkpoint ;)
 
Yea I was gonna go but other festivals called my name.. I don’t care who you are, where your from, you always try for a better deal when it comes to bulk pricing. But as you said, if he was happy.. Then he was happy. Not my money lol. Those are the grade A custy types that dealers are hunting for.

-GC

No ins and out at this festival so whatever was in was in... There was def some nice $80 gram DMT/MDMA sellers so the love was there as well no doubt.
 
Between scanning through posts on r/mdma and seeing pics of people with pupils the size of dinner plates and the posts here where people are reporting they were able to get their hands on magic in 2018, or even 2019, it sounds like there is still good MDMA floating around out there, it's just hard to find.

I mean...not EVERY batch being made in the Dutch labs/sold on DNMs can be meh, can it?


Speaking from personal experience buying from real life and virtual contacts I think nowadays the streets and the mail are both just offering everything, and it is up to the buyer to vote with his wallet.

Anyway, I recently sampled some crystal MDMA after a couple month's break from all stims except caffeine, and 150mg intranasal produced the full spectrum of effects expected from MDMA.
What was remarkable about the experience from my perspective is how easy it was to not redose while having a couple of grams of it in my drawer and no specific reason for not redosing except I wanted to minimise the comedown.
After I sampled the batch together with a friend of many trips and rolls, a (21yo, 38kg/84lbs) girl that had never tried any drug except very sporadic cannabis and alcohol use ingested 130mg of the same batch in a gel cap a few minutes after ingesting about 1.5 grams of Sodium bicarbonate.
No redoses were given during the experience, and it was one of the most stereotypical and positive MDMA experiences I have ever seen. You could say textbook, if there was one.
The peak effects lasted about 3 hours after comeup, but very pronounced effects were still present for 3 more hours, and sleep came at about the T+09:00 mark with some effects still present.
Ofcourse pupils were dilated, and there was jaw clenching and gurning, lip smacking, breathing air in and out felt good, all facial expressions were greatly exaggerated, urinating was impossible for the first half (4 hours ) of the experience, and there was a total breakdown of barriers that prevented her from expressing her feelings to the people present.
There was no loss of ability to reason "normally" or to hold a meaningful conversation at all. It was very easy to convince her that this experience cannot possibly be repeated every weekend, and that it is more like a once every 6-8 weeks kind of thing if she doesn't want to see her experience diminished in quality and duration.
She did not even mention once that she was considering a redose even though she was told that it was possible to get a booster dose.
In the second part of the experience she reported mild CEVs, just moving shapes of changing colours that she could somehow control.
The next day she reported pessimistic thinking, tiredness (described as pronounced, but not unnatural), complete lack of appetite, jaw clenching was present until the late evening, meaning it stopped about 22 hours after ingestion.
The day after that she reported being fully recovered. Full memory of the experience was retained.

Looking from the outside, there is something that is a very good indicator of someone having taken Magic or Meh, with Magic every stimuli or idea causes (during peak) a profound surprise reaction, that is accompanied by immediate curiosity and attention, Meh on the other hand seems to cause diminished reactions with no accompanied bursts of curiosity as if one would rather not be bothered from the current state.
 
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Speaking from personal experience buying from real life contacts and DNMs, I think nowadays the streets and the mail are both just offering everything, and it is up to the buyer to vote with his wallet.
Same as a real life connection may take a lot of time to be distinguished from the competition, but will enjoy the benefits of its reputation, some DN dealers have been active on several markets, many of which are now dead, but they kept the same name and they do enjoy the same benefits of having a reputation as much as real life dealers.
Honestly I am convinced that some DN dealers are just a branch or an affiliate of a street active organisation of some sort, but that's just me.

Anyway, I recently sampled some crystal MDMA after a couple month's break from all stims except caffeine, and 150mg intranasal produced the full spectrum of effects expected from MDMA.
What was remarkable about the experience from my perspective is how easy it was to not redose while having a couple of grams of it in my drawer and no specific reason for not redosing except I wanted to minimise the comedown.
After I sampled the batch together with a friend of many trips and rolls, a (21yo, 38kg/84lbs) girl that had never tried any drug except very sporadic cannabis and alcohol use ingested 130mg of the same batch in a gel cap a few minutes after ingesting about 1.5 grams of Sodium bicarbonate.
No redoses were given during the experience, and it was one of the most stereotypical and positive MDMA experiences I have ever seen. You could say textbook, if there was one.
The peak effects lasted about 3 hours after comeup, but very pronounced effects were still present for 3 more hours, and sleep came at about the T+09:00 mark with some effects still present.
Ofcourse pupils were dilated, and there was jaw clenching and gurning, lip smacking, breathing air in and out felt good, all facial expressions were greatly exaggerated, urinating was impossible for the first half (4 hours ) of the experience, and there was a total breakdown of barriers that prevented her from expressing her feelings to the people present.
There was no loss of ability to reason "normally" or to hold a meaningful conversation at all. It was very easy to convince her that this experience cannot possibly be repeated every weekend, and that it is more like a once every 6-8 weeks kind of thing if she doesn't want to see her experience diminished in quality and duration.
She did not even mention once that she was considering a redose even though she was told that it was possible to get a booster dose.
In the second part of the experience she reported mild CEVs, just moving shapes of changing colours that she could somehow control.
The next day she reported pessimistic thinking, tiredness (described as pronounced, but not unnatural), complete lack of appetite, jaw clenching was present until the late evening, meaning it stopped about 22 hours after ingestion.
The day after that she reported being fully recovered. Full memory of the experience was retained.

Looking from the outside, there is something that is a very good indicator of someone having taken Magic or Meh, with Magic every stimuli or idea causes (during peak) a profound surprise reaction, that is accompanied by immediate curiosity and attention, Meh on the other hand seems to cause diminished reactions with no accompanied bursts of curiosity as if one would rather not be bothered from the current state.
lalalala nothing to see here
 
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