Diet Veganism made my addiction and recovery WAY harder than they should have been

[Jabberwocky]

It's just another form of starving yourself to death or just a decision or option of diet choice. It should involve a doctor for medical advice if possible. I have heard of not eating meat but actually eating protein from soy, eggs, peanut butter (fresh) spinach, nuts, beans (legumes) other types of protein gelatin which is also bone broth. But you can't get too picky YOLO. God gave you 80 or so years so you better get it right.
Oh yeah cheese.
I really do prefer vegetables over meat. I would love a cheese pizza with anchovies only. Or a cheese pizza with mushrooms only. And preferably with cauliflower crust. I still like meat but will always just eat more vegetables if I can. You definitely need nutrients and vitamins that's for sure or you are not going to make it too well.

There are hardly any nutrients on vegetables, and the little minerals they have are not properly absorbed by us, on top of all the toxins they have (it's their defense mechanism)
Protein from plants is a very very poor substitute for animal protein, and you will have to overeat A LOT to get all you need from plants, causing you to age faster and spend all your energy on digestion. They make us associate vegetables with good health, but never tell you why, because there are no actual reasons.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I feel bad that people here have encountered so many problems by going vegan. I guess it's not for everybody. Hopefully you're all feeling better now.

Even though I'm vegan myself, the preachy ones annoy me just as much as they do to everyone else. I'm not the kind of person to beat someone over the head with a block of tofu and try to convert them. It's just a personal choice with me.

The same goes for my Christianity. So many people in my old church were so judgmental that I finally stopped going. My faith is actually stronger now that I don't have to deal with all of the pressure from my "fellow believers".

Maybe you have been vegan for a few years or just a few months, but it always ends up on them finding out that it's not really for anyone, except for hervibores. Nothing in our bodies resembles that of a herbivore, we just dont have jaws and teeth like most carnivores because we have intelligence instead. That thing they say about our intestines not being shorter like other carnivores also does not mean what they think it means, haha.

I hope that you can find a good church, where you can get closer to God, and be with other christians. The Bible tells us that we should congregate. It will surely grow your faith much more.
The Bible also says that all meats are deemed clean. Just eat whatever you want, man.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I went vegan for a year in order to heal my health condition, on the advice of a practitioner I really trusted. Plus I was desperate.

It really destroyed my body and aged me. In addition to my primary condition not getting better, I had joint pain, my skin and hair looked terrible, and I had no energy for daily activities. My sex drive also disappeared.

Reintroducing animal products and eating a high protein diet turned things around.

Veganism is not sustainable long-term. It's a good short-term detox diet but that's it. I have never met a long-term vegan who looked good. All the soy boys I've met are so docile and don't seem like they can handle life.

Full fat animal products are where it's at.

Oh shoot, you had all those problems from it in just one year? Glad you were smart enough to snap out of it quick! It took me way longer i too have wondered if it's even good to detox and lose weight... I think our organs like liver and kidneys already do the detox for us, maybe... And i have heard of fat people losing weight by quitting veganism, and normal people getting fat from it... Few weeks out of veganism, my period came back after seven years of me not having it. When you lose your period, you also lose your energy, so that should be a reason for me not to be angry about having it back, haha. Soy is an endocrine disruptor.
I think that soyboys and soygirls are not only meek, but also lose the ability to think and act like a normal human, for obvious reasons. Personally i was extremely psichotic and just yesterday i had the dumbest freakin discussion with a soygirl that apparently lost her ability to read.

 

[Jabberwocky]

You wonder why no one ever said shit - probably because most vegans rabidly defend their fucked up diet and that just don't want to deal with it.

No offense intended to anyone but I've always thought if you are stupid enough to go vegan you are probably too stupid to be reasoned out of it. 'Can't reason someone out of illogical position that didn't use reason to get to' kinda thing.

In my experience with vegans, this is true. It's like a cult, and anyone who says otherwise to the shining light that is veganism is simply 'lost' and can't see the truth because meat is clouding their vision.

In my opinion, there was a large push in the last century to eat far more meat than we should and that a lot of veganism is comparing itself to this outrageous level of meat eating. I think most people should eat less meat. Most people would be far healthier if they cut their consumption of it by half, and increased fruit, veges and eggs in their diet.

I also think the fact most people only eat flesh is a problem too. No kidneys, no liver, no brains. Hell, even a lot of people avoid meat with bones now. To me this is unhealthy and we should be eating more of the animals we slaughter for food.

Just yesterday i had to speak to the most brainwashed soygirl i had ever encountered, and indeed, they refuse to listen to anything that contradicts their illogical diet. I'm not saying that all vegans are stupid, but if someone is showing you undeniable proof and you still don't change your mind, then maybe you are in fact not very smart.
I too think about "nose-to-tail nutrition" but i am still grossed out by it and idk how to change that.
But i see the opposite of what you said about meat eating being pushed, they want us to be weak, so what they are actually pushing is veganism. Have you ever thought why we have always associated greens with good health? There are barely any nutrients in greens and vegetables.

 

[moonyham]

Just yesterday i had to speak to the most brainwashed soygirl i had ever encountered, and indeed, they refuse to listen to anything that contradicts their illogical diet. I'm not saying that all vegans are stupid, but if someone is showing you undeniable proof and you still don't change your mind, then maybe you are in fact not very smart.
I too think about "nose-to-tail nutrition" but i am still grossed out by it and idk how to change that.
But i see the opposite of what you said about meat eating being pushed, they want us to be weak, so what they are actually pushing is veganism. Have you ever thought why we have always associated greens with good health? There are barely any nutrients in greens and vegetables.

Yeah thats my point. This idea of heaps of meat or no meat seems to be where a lot of peoples heads are at. Its neither. We shouldn't eat too much meat and too much = what most people who eat meat, consume. Based on what I've seen many eat, my estimate is 'half that shit'.

I know what you mean regarding being grossed out. An easy way to reduce that feeling is to include these other parts of the animal in dishes that aren't 'direct' IE like a steak is just.. steak. As direct as it comes. For something like liver or kidneys, adding it into a meat pie means you don't even notice/feel/taste it in particular but you get the goodness of it.

As for green vegetables. I don't eat them for nutrients. I eat them for fibre and flavour/texture. I can't say why others do or don't eat them but thats my reason. I've never considered them particularly nutrient rich.

Regarding vegans. Yeah, I don't bother. Like I say, they are essentially lost to a cult. I don't know what it takes to get them out, I've only seen people stop themselves - not because of what others have said or done.

 

[Mjäll]

Vegans don’t eat bugs, but many aren’t opposed to it. I think that’s an example where their mouth ain’t where their money is…. Many talk a big game but put a bug in front of them and they’ll tell you no thanks and reach for that fake Daiya freezer pizza.

I also find it funny that despite being living creatures that feel pain, they aren’t considered on the same tier as “animals” aka anything fuzzy, cute and often mammalian. There’s no solid explanation ever given for this other than the “come on obviously bugs don’t matter as much as say a cow..” But why? If it’s a test of morality, why do the little bugs not matter? Soon as we start to pick these apart the whole ideology falls apart. It’s all based on what we pick and choose as animals worthy of living, essentially ones that can look up at you with beady eyes right before you kill em.

-GC

I think it's about the empathy thing. People have real feelings for mammals and some birds. Insects don't possess the traits to make that a problem.

It's not really a philosophical or analytical question at heart, even though many like to frame it that way to sound more expert and right.

 

[Foreigner]

Oh shoot, you had all those problems from it in just one year? Glad you were smart enough to snap out of it quick! It took me way longer i too have wondered if it's even good to detox and lose weight... I think our organs like liver and kidneys already do the detox for us, maybe... And i have heard of fat people losing weight by quitting veganism, and normal people getting fat from it... Few weeks out of veganism, my period came back after seven years of me not having it. When you lose your period, you also lose your energy, so that should be a reason for me not to be angry about having it back, haha. Soy is an endocrine disruptor.
I think that soyboys and soygirls are not only meek, but also lose the ability to think and act like a normal human, for obvious reasons. Personally i was extremely psichotic and just yesterday i had the dumbest freakin discussion with a soygirl that apparently lost her ability to read.

I tried it for 9 months, to be precise. I had a severe chronic illness that the naturopath claimed veganism would remedy. It didn't, and I started to suffer additional degenerative conditions on top of it, especially in my skin and bones. Even my eyesight started degrading.

I don't think soy is the reason why vegans have issues. It's because they are deprived of dense nutrient sources, especially the fat soluble vitamins. I used to have a clinical practice (I might again) and every vegan woman I saw had a messed up period. Long-term vegans often had no period whatsoever. I found it so difficult to work with these clients that I made the professional decision to stop seeing them. Dealing with rich clients who are vegan is easy because they can afford to buy supplements or ship in products from all over the world. The low income vegans were hopeless. Raw vegans were worse. It was the middle of winter and they were eating salads. I'll never understand.

Children raised on veganism have poor outcomes. A lot of the adults claiming veganism works benefited from an omnivorous diet as children, like strong bones and deep reserves of vitamins and minerals. But kids who start off vegan, they don't have those reserves and it shows. By the time they are adults their bodies are falling apart. They age much faster too. Adult vegans in their 20s who were raised omnivorous are cocky but as soon as they are 35+ y/o and their natural fire/vitality starts to decline (as is normal with aging), all of their nutritional deficiencies start to manifest as chronic disease. I've met women who were vegan who entered early menopause. This is the norm, not the exception.

Veganism ages people when used as a permanent diet.

The best diet in the world is plant based which is up to 80% plant. The rest is animal products. All the science shows this. Vegetarianism is not a problem because of the presence of non-meat animal products.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Yeah thats my point. This idea of heaps of meat or no meat seems to be where a lot of peoples heads are at. Its neither. We shouldn't eat too much meat and too much = what most people who eat meat, consume. Based on what I've seen many eat, my estimate is 'half that shit'.

I know what you mean regarding being grossed out. An easy way to reduce that feeling is to include these other parts of the animal in dishes that aren't 'direct' IE like a steak is just.. steak. As direct as it comes. For something like liver or kidneys, adding it into a meat pie means you don't even notice/feel/taste it in particular but you get the goodness of it.

As for green vegetables. I don't eat them for nutrients. I eat them for fibre and flavour/texture. I can't say why others do or don't eat them but thats my reason. I've never considered them particularly nutrient rich.

Regarding vegans. Yeah, I don't bother. Like I say, they are essentially lost to a cult. I don't know what it takes to get them out, I've only seen people stop themselves - not because of what others have said or done.

The reason i stopped is both because of my health and because what i saw others go through.
About fiber, it is not really a nutrient, it is just indigestible stuff and some people say that it gives intestines something to work with, to me it's obsolete and i think we can all do without... Grain is bad for us.
The vegans that are not into it for being trendy or fitting in, mostly do it with good intentions not knowing that it's all just basically a trap. I encourage everyone to help their peers out of it. It's an eating disorder and hopefully in the future it will be treated as such.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I tried it for 9 months, to be precise. I had a severe chronic illness that the naturopath claimed veganism would remedy. It didn't, and I started to suffer additional degenerative conditions on top of it, especially in my skin and bones. Even my eyesight started degrading.

I don't think soy is the reason why vegans have issues. It's because they are deprived of dense nutrient sources, especially the fat soluble vitamins. I used to have a clinical practice (I might again) and every vegan woman I saw had a messed up period. Long-term vegans often had no period whatsoever. I found it so difficult to work with these clients that I made the professional decision to stop seeing them. Dealing with rich clients who are vegan is easy because they can afford to buy supplements or ship in products from all over the world. The low income vegans were hopeless. Raw vegans were worse. It was the middle of winter and they were eating salads. I'll never understand.

Children raised on veganism have poor outcomes. A lot of the adults claiming veganism works benefited from an omnivorous diet as children, like strong bones and deep reserves of vitamins and minerals. But kids who start off vegan, they don't have those reserves and it shows. By the time they are adults their bodies are falling apart. They age much faster too. Adult vegans in their 20s who were raised omnivorous are cocky but as soon as they are 35+ y/o and their natural fire/vitality starts to decline (as is normal with aging), all of their nutritional deficiencies start to manifest as chronic disease. I've met women who were vegan who entered early menopause. This is the norm, not the exception.

Veganism ages people when used as a permanent diet.

The best diet in the world is plant based which is up to 80% plant. The rest is animal products. All the science shows this. Vegetarianism is not a problem because of the presence of non-meat animal products.

Wait, so are u saying that we can be healthy without eating meat? Where can we find the nutrients in it anywhere else?
Oh no i didnt mean that soy is THE reason, but one of the many reasons.
So wow, you had vegan and raw vegan patients (my raw vegan phase was the worst, and when my period went away) did you ever mention their diet to them? Every symptom u mentioned i either had or someone close to me did, but NEVER attributed it to the diet, because to us it was something flawless and perfect that would literally save the world.
When u stopped, were u criticised by any soy people? If vegan is good for something, it is for... I literally cant think of a single thing.

 

[Foreigner]

Wait, so are u saying that we can be healthy without eating meat? Where can we find the nutrients in it anywhere else?
Oh no i didnt mean that soy is THE reason, but one of the many reasons.
So wow, you had vegan and raw vegan patients (my raw vegan phase was the worst, and when my period went away) did you ever mention their diet to them? Every symptom u mentioned i either had or someone close to me did, but NEVER attributed it to the diet, because to us it was something flawless and perfect that would literally save the world.
When u stopped, were u criticised by any soy people? If vegan is good for something, it is for... I literally cant think of a single thing.

Yes, vegetarians can be healthy. Vegans can't, long-term. Vegetarians eat eggs and dairy.

I mentioned their diet to them, but most would not change. It was a waste of their money and my time. So I stopped seeing them. I had an online intake form and if they ticked off "vegan" under diet, I would let them know that I am not the right practitioner for them.

When I stopped, I wasn't criticized because I wasn't part of a vegan community. Nobody cared.

 

[G_Chem]

I find vegetarians who eat just eggs and dairy to be almost as silly as vegans. If their reasoning is moral, egg and dairy production puts animals through a lifetime of slavery in comparison to grass fed meats which only have “one bad day.” On top of that dairy is horrible for most peoples health. (Now if you go A2 dairy and not eat it every day, there’s health benefits but most don’t even know what A2 is..). And eggs can be unless you get high quality.

-GC

 

[Jabberwocky]

Yes, vegetarians can be healthy. Vegans can't, long-term. Vegetarians eat eggs and dairy.

I mentioned their diet to them, but most would not change. It was a waste of their money and my time. So I stopped seeing them. I had an online intake form and if they ticked off "vegan" under diet, I would let them know that I am not the right practitioner for them.

When I stopped, I wasn't criticized because I wasn't part of a vegan community. Nobody cared.

Nice. Aint it crazy how intense their brainwashing is? No matter how much someone would explain to me that it was basically the norm to eat animal stuff, i would discard whatever they said because i was convinced that the world should go vegan. Stupid....

 

[kongoman]

La mejor alimentación que existe es la dieta mediterrània de la zona de italià visto que su edad de mortalidad es muy superior a las demàs zonas del Mundó entero. Se consumen cereales, legumbres,pescado azul,verduras i algo de carne de ave. En Japon tambien se encuentran las personas màs longevas del planeta.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I find vegetarians who eat just eggs and dairy to be almost as silly as vegans. If their reasoning is moral, egg and dairy production puts animals through a lifetime of slavery in comparison to grass fed meats which only have “one bad day.” On top of that dairy is horrible for most peoples health. (Now if you go A2 dairy and not eat it every day, there’s health benefits but most don’t even know what A2 is..). And eggs can be unless you get high quality.

-GC

Thats funny, i just learned about A1 and A2 last week but uhh it's super hard to find so ill stick to greek yoghurt.
Hey i just han an insane encounter with like the most condescending, narcissistic, sissiest vegan ever and i wonder if i was ever like that

 

[Jabberwocky]

La mejor alimentación que existe es la dieta mediterrània de la zona de italià visto que su edad de mortalidad es muy superior a las demàs zonas del Mundó entero. Se consumen cereales, legumbres,pescado azul,verduras i algo de carne de ave. En Japon tambien se encuentran las personas màs longevas del planeta.

No se si su longevidad se deba a su dieta, pero ninguno de ellos son veganos. La esperanza de vida de un vegano es 50 años, por obvias razones.

 

[Jen X]

I switched to vegetarian. My doctor said people need at least 20-30grams of animal protein a day. So I eat eggs, Greek yogurt (more protein than normal) and cheese so I get it that way.

We're not meant to eat all plants. Our brains need certain proteins.

I also cut out sugar and processed food. Lost the 10lb of covid weight in a couple months.

Before any big diet change it's best to talk with a doctor/nutritionist.

 

[Jen X]

I find vegetarians who eat just eggs and dairy to be almost as silly as vegans. If their reasoning is moral, egg and dairy production puts animals through a lifetime of slavery in comparison to grass fed meats which only have “one bad day.” On top of that dairy is horrible for most peoples health. (Now if you go A2 dairy and not eat it every day, there’s health benefits but most don’t even know what A2 is..). And eggs can be unless you get high quality.

-GC

Eggs are more protein and nutrient dense then meat.
You can get lactose free dairy. It's not bad for you.
Where you getting your misinformation?
And my eggs come from a local farm and run freely. Much better life then in a cage for months until they get killed.

 

[G_Chem]

Eggs are more protein and nutrient dense then meat.
You can get lactose free dairy. It's not bad for you.
Where you getting your misinformation?
And my eggs come from a local farm and run freely. Much better life then in a cage for months until they get killed.

From years of food research… To be real the fact you brought up lactose shows how far behind you are in you info. Most know now, that a majority of peoples problems stem from the casein content not lactose. Before calling misinformation I suggest you do some reading.

Milk Intolerance, Beta-Casein and Lactose

True lactose intolerance (symptoms stemming from lactose malabsorption) is less common than is widely perceived, and should be viewed as just one potential cause of cows’ milk intolerance. There is increasing evidence that A1 beta-casein, a protein produced by a major proportion of...

www.mdpi.com

Next let’s address your so very wrong idea that egg laying chickens somehow “run freely?” Most egg laying chickens spend their entire lives in cages, their bodies so low in calcium their egg shells are damn near like paper. If one buys “free range” chicken meat and even better researches the company a bit, you can be certain that chicken spent hell lot more time outside than a chicken expected to spit out eggs on command. Even free range “layers” will spend more time in confined settings than free range “broilers”.

And while yes eggs are a great source of protein, choline, fats, etc… They are also known to cause allergies in certain individuals too. Eggs are second only to dairy in causing allergic reactions. Just like with dairy, it’s likely the type of proteins present.

Current understanding of egg allergy - PMC

Egg is one of the most important allergens in childhood feeding, and egg allergy can pose quality of life concerns. A clear clinical history and the detection of egg white specific IgE will confirm the diagnosis of IgE-mediated reactions. ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Having just now re-hashed the data, I will take back my “dairy is bad for most people” and replace that most with a some. It appears very recent research is now going against the idea dairy induces chronic inflammation. (Science is a process after all.) Id argue though these research articles aren’t looking at A1 dairy specifically.


In the end, my main point was that these animal protein sources shit all over the moral ideology and when compared to true meat sources aren’t quite as good for us. Based on the fact dairy and eggs are the two most common food allergens. Most western dairy is A1, which contains the pro inflammatory form of casein. And the things these animals need to go through to produce it…

-GC

 

[G_Chem]

Eggs are more protein and nutrient dense then meat.
You can get lactose free dairy. It's not bad for you.
Where you getting your misinformation?
And my eggs come from a local farm and run freely. Much better life then in a cage for months until they get killed.

To further add..

Dairy contains opioid mimicking compounds, as well as A1 dairy casein metabolizes into said compounds. This (as I learned first hand) can be problematic for both former opiate users and regular people. Unless you eat a specified amount of dairy each day, you’ll have varying levels with the resulting varying mood.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10408398.2012.740102

Contents of agonistic and antagonistic opioid peptides in different cheese varieties

Two opioid peptides with agonistic (β-casomorphin-5 and β-casomorphin-7) and three with antagonistic (casoxin-6, casoxin-C and lactoferroxin A) activi…

www.sciencedirect.com

And then when we look at cheeses or other aged dairy we see tyramine and glutamate. Tyramine is known to give people headaches and other symptoms. Glutamate is excitotoxic.

-GC

 

[PtahTek]

I just wanted to add that my time spent being a vegetarian (7 years) while left me a more "spirtual" person also caused my physical well being a mess.
To expound; I was weak and could barely do anything physically exertining. Basically running on "fumes" and always tired, unhelpful when strength was needed to accomplish any task and my weight dropped extremely.
This time was in the mid 80s and lasted until 92.
Although I am currently at optimal weight (57? ) I should eat more veggies but have no interests in doing so. Have to either have veggies in a meat dish or otherwise inveated in a like manner.
Sorry my posts havent been more comprehensive or helpful lately but something is causing me to become more "scatterbrained" and hope that this has been caused by bromazolam use and will see because I have recently stopped using it to see if it has in fact caused this or not.
Could be an age thing and will be going in to have some tests soon.
Hoping it wasnt caused by by the recent OD but if so maybe feel like I can snap back from it over time.
My thoughts are that we should as a species balance our intake of meat and veggies but this is just my opinion; nothing else.
Then again... with all the BS we are "enhancing" our food with and the ooisoning of our planet may be causing some negative effects in our being.
Just some thoughts....