PhorIndicator
Bluelighter
PhorIndicator said:
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SLR Moderators: Senior Staff
The Official "Secrets to Women" thread
- Thread starter PhorIndicator
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Black Octagon
Bluelighter
sigh...
and how, pray tell, do you explain the fact that millions of 'nice' guys DO end up in very fulfilling, loving, trusting relationships?
and how, pray tell, do you explain the fact that millions of 'nice' guys DO end up in very fulfilling, loving, trusting relationships?
HobbyIsBowling
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2004
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- 1,436
Black Octagon said:
He should respond: Because women get older and tastes change. The current discussion seems to be focused on younger women, so I venture that this will be his response.
I'm not sure if I agree with the numbers he puts on his estimates, but I definately see where he is coming from.
PhorIndicator
Bluelighter
Black Octagon said:
Did you not read my post? There is no such thing as a "nice" guy. The "nice" guy is actually selfish and manipulative because of his inability to succeed with women. Therefore he is ingratiating and placating to women in an effort to manipulate them in some kind of "feel sorry for me and fuck me" kind of way. He's not aware of this, but it's what he's doing.
Maybe you're referring to kind guys. You're right - millions of kind guys DO end up in good relationships. They're kind sometimes, and can be pricks other times. I fail to see your point.
@HobbyIsBowling
I think you've hit spot on the money there with the age thing in women. I was watching a thing on TV the other day on why people are staying single longer and the standards of men and women. The general consensus on the show was not that as women get older their tastes change but more as that as women get older they get more mature in what they seek in a man. Hence Black Octagon's point in that lots of nice men DO up in very fulfilling, loving, trusting relationships..
ITs also I believe very much the case of women like to Fuck the guys who arent 'nice' but much prefer to in long term relationships with the guys who are 'nice'.
@PhorIndicator
Please tell me the difference between a 'nice' guy and a 'kind' guy ?
It obviously seems to vastly different in your eyes.
I think you've hit spot on the money there with the age thing in women. I was watching a thing on TV the other day on why people are staying single longer and the standards of men and women. The general consensus on the show was not that as women get older their tastes change but more as that as women get older they get more mature in what they seek in a man. Hence Black Octagon's point in that lots of nice men DO up in very fulfilling, loving, trusting relationships..
ITs also I believe very much the case of women like to Fuck the guys who arent 'nice' but much prefer to in long term relationships with the guys who are 'nice'.
@PhorIndicator
Please tell me the difference between a 'nice' guy and a 'kind' guy ?
It obviously seems to vastly different in your eyes.
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PhorIndicator
Bluelighter
Read my posts dude.
Black Octagon
Bluelighter
yes of course i use the words 'nice' and 'kind' interchangeably since they're almost synonyms. yes, 'nice guy' is a colloquial expression with it's own connotations, but my whole point is that to be a 'nice guy' is not by definition to be 'unsuccessful with women' as you seem to be asserting. i don't know the precise slang of wherever you come from, but here in australia the term 'nice guy' takes on a very broad meaning. yes, the phrase 'nice guys finish last' is sometimes heard but very rarely would I find people who consider it an anomaly for a 'nice guy' to be successful with girls. To make matters more confusing, your original point spoke of a balance between being 'nice' and an 'asshole' and so didn't rule out the possibility of 'niceness' being a part of the 'secrets to women.' But you also claim that "there is no such thing as a 'nice' guy." This is very confusing, so as Dazer suggested, can you please differentiate between 'nice' and 'kind' because this discussion is getting a little pedantic and I struggle to add any more points of substance when there's so much ambiguity in what we're talking about. I've read your posts with great interest and am still confused.
Anyway, to reiterate my original point: it is the sincere guy who stands the best chance of ending up in an optimal relationship because of the trust and genuine love such sincerity engenders. For me, that is always the desired end-goal of any 'secret to women.' It probably doesn't apply so well if all you're after is sex, but even then I'd rather have sex with a girl who knew me and wanted me for who I am. Right 'nuff said.
Anyway, to reiterate my original point: it is the sincere guy who stands the best chance of ending up in an optimal relationship because of the trust and genuine love such sincerity engenders. For me, that is always the desired end-goal of any 'secret to women.' It probably doesn't apply so well if all you're after is sex, but even then I'd rather have sex with a girl who knew me and wanted me for who I am. Right 'nuff said.
PhorIndicator
Bluelighter
I have never argued with your advocacy of being sincere or transparent with women. That has been acknowledged. I agree. It's good to be sincere with women... I think we can move on.
In response to the ambiguity between a "nice" guy and a "kind" guy. Kindness is a personality trait. The dictionary defines Kind as : gentle; considerate; benevolent.
The dictionary defines Nice as: pleasing; agreeable.
There are your definitions.
When I say that "nice" guys don't actually exist, I am referring to what constitutes the kind of guy that is connoted from the phrase "Nice guys finish last." That is, ingratiating and placating. Almost submissive and sub-servient. Being overly agreeable and basically just trying too hard to please. Anyone can be nice. Charles Manson can be nice. Not everyone can be kind. Kindness is a characteristic found in one's personality, and cannot be imitated.
Niceness is a demeanor.
In response to the ambiguity between a "nice" guy and a "kind" guy. Kindness is a personality trait. The dictionary defines Kind as : gentle; considerate; benevolent.
The dictionary defines Nice as: pleasing; agreeable.
There are your definitions.
When I say that "nice" guys don't actually exist, I am referring to what constitutes the kind of guy that is connoted from the phrase "Nice guys finish last." That is, ingratiating and placating. Almost submissive and sub-servient. Being overly agreeable and basically just trying too hard to please. Anyone can be nice. Charles Manson can be nice. Not everyone can be kind. Kindness is a characteristic found in one's personality, and cannot be imitated.
Niceness is a demeanor.
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PhorIndicator
Bluelighter
Does anyone else have an insight or "secret" to women? Or should I post number 2.... ?
Strawberry_lovemuffin
Bluelighter
Compliments. Lots and lots of compliments.
Black Octagon
Bluelighter
I agree. Although there has been a clear variety of opinions so far, this has been a particularly interesting thread and I would like to see it keep going. Bring on further discussion!
PhorIndicator
Bluelighter
Insight # 2: Women are the ones who decide the rules.... guys just have to learn them... and then play the game... THEIR game.
This is something that took me a while to learn. Women are the ones who hold the power - initially. Why? Because they have something WE want. For those of you out there who don't read between the lines... this mysterious thing we all want and they all have is.. PUSSY. Women don't have trouble getting laid. A girl could probably get laid every single day by a different guy if she wanted to. But any girl who respects herself even a little bit won't do this... because she doesn't WANT just any guy. She wants a guy who exhibits characteristics that are both attractive and contribute to the proliferation of the species. These traits are: strength, character, dominance over other males, social status, charm, charisma...overall SUCCESS. Women know that if a guy is succeeding in LIFE, he will succeed as her mate.
But the women are the ones who CHOOSE the mate. Not the other way around, as much as we'd like to think it is. The minute a girl meets a guy, she assesses him immediately into a category in her mind. There are two categories into which she will put him. a) I would fuck him. and b) I would NOT fuck him. Women are probably not cognitive of this appraisal as directly as I am describing it.... but they do it nonetheless. Ask a girl, and she might word it as "Oh, he's cute...." or think her head "hmmm... what's that guy's style... what's his deal...i wonder what he is all about" - those would be examples of category A. Examples in category B would be along the lines of "____________________ " Lol. They are not looking at the category B guys. They are thinking about the category A guys. And chances are, category A guys are going to be smaller in number than category B guys.
Basically, once a girl meets a guy, SHE determines whether or not she would EVER let him in her pants or not. Because of this, the girl determines the rules of the game. If she lumps you into category B after meeting you.... I'd say there is about a 90% chance you won't ever fuck her. And the 10% who do overcome this immediate "classification" by the female have a phenomenally difficult time overcoming it and convincing her to let them get up in that
In case you were wondering what the girl CALLS category B guys.... its FRIENDS. This is what a girl considers a "guy-friend." A guy she would not fuck.
There are more ways women determine the "rules" to the dating game... like once they have classified you as a potential fuck partner, exactly HOW to get to the point of fucking them. But I will save that for another post... My wrists are getting tired.
This is something that took me a while to learn. Women are the ones who hold the power - initially. Why? Because they have something WE want. For those of you out there who don't read between the lines... this mysterious thing we all want and they all have is.. PUSSY. Women don't have trouble getting laid. A girl could probably get laid every single day by a different guy if she wanted to. But any girl who respects herself even a little bit won't do this... because she doesn't WANT just any guy. She wants a guy who exhibits characteristics that are both attractive and contribute to the proliferation of the species. These traits are: strength, character, dominance over other males, social status, charm, charisma...overall SUCCESS. Women know that if a guy is succeeding in LIFE, he will succeed as her mate.
But the women are the ones who CHOOSE the mate. Not the other way around, as much as we'd like to think it is. The minute a girl meets a guy, she assesses him immediately into a category in her mind. There are two categories into which she will put him. a) I would fuck him. and b) I would NOT fuck him. Women are probably not cognitive of this appraisal as directly as I am describing it.... but they do it nonetheless. Ask a girl, and she might word it as "Oh, he's cute...." or think her head "hmmm... what's that guy's style... what's his deal...i wonder what he is all about" - those would be examples of category A. Examples in category B would be along the lines of "____________________ " Lol. They are not looking at the category B guys. They are thinking about the category A guys. And chances are, category A guys are going to be smaller in number than category B guys.
Basically, once a girl meets a guy, SHE determines whether or not she would EVER let him in her pants or not. Because of this, the girl determines the rules of the game. If she lumps you into category B after meeting you.... I'd say there is about a 90% chance you won't ever fuck her. And the 10% who do overcome this immediate "classification" by the female have a phenomenally difficult time overcoming it and convincing her to let them get up in that
In case you were wondering what the girl CALLS category B guys.... its FRIENDS. This is what a girl considers a "guy-friend." A guy she would not fuck.
There are more ways women determine the "rules" to the dating game... like once they have classified you as a potential fuck partner, exactly HOW to get to the point of fucking them. But I will save that for another post... My wrists are getting tired.
Strawberry_lovemuffin
Bluelighter
^ May I ask your age, PhorIndicator?
You just seem to have an unnatural pre-occupation about what women want... and I just wonder if you've been hurt prematurely and repeatedly in your adolescence causing you to overanalyse the whole thing....
You just seem to have an unnatural pre-occupation about what women want... and I just wonder if you've been hurt prematurely and repeatedly in your adolescence causing you to overanalyse the whole thing....
PhorIndicator
Bluelighter
I'm 23. And I wouldn't say I've over-analyzed what women want... I'd say I've ANALYZED it.
I also wouldn't say I have an unnatural pre-occupation with what women want. After all, there are lots of things that are important to a guy.... but almost invariably, getting laid will be among the top 3.
Also, do not assume just because I have analyzed women and dating to a significant degree that I am pre-occupied with it... I have analyzed many thing to a significant degree and have many, many things to say about many, many, things
I also wouldn't say I have an unnatural pre-occupation with what women want. After all, there are lots of things that are important to a guy.... but almost invariably, getting laid will be among the top 3.
Also, do not assume just because I have analyzed women and dating to a significant degree that I am pre-occupied with it... I have analyzed many thing to a significant degree and have many, many things to say about many, many, things
Strawberry_lovemuffin
Bluelighter
Cool Sorry, I am used to lots of bitter 18 year old guys here who've had one experience with a woman and that sets their whole attitute on this forum...
I actually find your insights very accurate.
Sorry, I am used to lots of bitter 18 year old guys here who've had one experience with a woman and that sets their whole attitute on this forum... I actually find your insights very accurate.
PhorIndicator
Bluelighter
Thank you, O Quiet and Magical One of the Southern Hemisphere
Shnouzerpuff
Bluelighter
nailed it Phor.
Thanks PhorIndicator.
Your advice probably applies best to younger people, but in my limited, limited, experience it seems to be mostly true. I am 18 and I am just learning this whole relationship/fuck buddy thing. I can see where some of the actions of my girl follow your "rules"
Me and my girl have a very open, truthful relationship. It started as her being my "best girl friend" I am straight up and she knows that I don't lie to her. If she asks me a question I will give her an honest answer and explain my reasoning, but as the relationship progresses she seems to be more mysterious and changes her mind about some things to keep things interesting, or she will just leave me in the dark about some important things. Things that if I would have known about we could have helped each other out with, or fixed. This frustrates me as we used to freely exchange beliefs and opinions without fear of reprisal.
She has been chasing me for years and now that she has me she isn't too sure what to do with me :D She freely admits that she doesn't even know what she wants half the time. She simply replys that she wants "me" as a person and physically.
I used to be a "nice guy" I continued to be a more or less nice guy at the start of the relationship. I'd give her whatever she wanted, she had me in the palm of her hand. Then I figured out that she is being spoiled and that if she has been chasing me all these years she can put forth some effort to make me happy too. I can't just try and satisfy her every whim.
I found that by using some of her tactics against her keeps things interesting and fair. My buddy just came back from living in Canada and I am spending loads of time with him and that is making her jealous and makes her very affectionate when we are together.
As far as the whole asshole thing...
The people who are beautiful, rich, and or powerful have had it easy their whole lives, they get what they want. But when they want something they don't have they will work to get it. Nice guys are subservient and want to please women and give them everything that they ask for. Some pretty girls will figure that they can get what they want out of the guy and throw him away.
My advice:
Give your girl what she wants and try and make her happy, but make sure they aren't getting spoiled by your nice guy attitude. They like to be spoiled, but don't let them boss you around, make them work for it, and don't sulk if they get mad, or ask another guy to help them with something. If they want you and love you they will feel bad for trying to boss you around and they will come to you and learn to appreciate the nice things you do for them.
Women have a power over men and the smart ones know it. But don't let yourself get stepped over by women just because you want in their pants.
Women don't want a guy that is too nice and gives her everything, they will pick the most attractive nice guy and get bored with him. They will chase after the guy that they think they can't have. (assholes)
It's not as easy as nice guy meets nice girl and are nice to each other forever and ever.
Your advice probably applies best to younger people, but in my limited, limited, experience it seems to be mostly true. I am 18 and I am just learning this whole relationship/fuck buddy thing. I can see where some of the actions of my girl follow your "rules"
Me and my girl have a very open, truthful relationship. It started as her being my "best girl friend" I am straight up and she knows that I don't lie to her. If she asks me a question I will give her an honest answer and explain my reasoning, but as the relationship progresses she seems to be more mysterious and changes her mind about some things to keep things interesting, or she will just leave me in the dark about some important things. Things that if I would have known about we could have helped each other out with, or fixed. This frustrates me as we used to freely exchange beliefs and opinions without fear of reprisal.
She has been chasing me for years and now that she has me she isn't too sure what to do with me :D She freely admits that she doesn't even know what she wants half the time. She simply replys that she wants "me" as a person and physically.
I used to be a "nice guy" I continued to be a more or less nice guy at the start of the relationship. I'd give her whatever she wanted, she had me in the palm of her hand. Then I figured out that she is being spoiled and that if she has been chasing me all these years she can put forth some effort to make me happy too. I can't just try and satisfy her every whim.
I found that by using some of her tactics against her keeps things interesting and fair. My buddy just came back from living in Canada and I am spending loads of time with him and that is making her jealous and makes her very affectionate when we are together.
As far as the whole asshole thing...
The people who are beautiful, rich, and or powerful have had it easy their whole lives, they get what they want. But when they want something they don't have they will work to get it. Nice guys are subservient and want to please women and give them everything that they ask for. Some pretty girls will figure that they can get what they want out of the guy and throw him away.
My advice:
Give your girl what she wants and try and make her happy, but make sure they aren't getting spoiled by your nice guy attitude. They like to be spoiled, but don't let them boss you around, make them work for it, and don't sulk if they get mad, or ask another guy to help them with something. If they want you and love you they will feel bad for trying to boss you around and they will come to you and learn to appreciate the nice things you do for them.
Women have a power over men and the smart ones know it. But don't let yourself get stepped over by women just because you want in their pants.
Women don't want a guy that is too nice and gives her everything, they will pick the most attractive nice guy and get bored with him. They will chase after the guy that they think they can't have. (assholes)
It's not as easy as nice guy meets nice girl and are nice to each other forever and ever.
PhorIndicator
Bluelighter
Yeah man.... that's basically what I've been posting about the last, maybe, 8 posts in fact.
calcabrina
Bluelighter
I dunno, PhorIndicator doesn't seem like some adolescent who's been hurt by a relationship in the past to me. He's pretty fucking insightful, acutally. Especially for one so young as 23.
So maybe he can answer this for me: apparently women enjoy/need sex just as much as men do. If this is the truth, then why is it that they are so fully in control of this bargaining chip?
So maybe he can answer this for me: apparently women enjoy/need sex just as much as men do. If this is the truth, then why is it that they are so fully in control of this bargaining chip?