The Official "Secrets to Women" thread

[fairnymph]

I apologize for my aggression, since I've already been around the block on this argument I don't have much patience with it anymore. I have a very short temper when it comes to people claiming bullshit as 'science'.

To accept such an explanation is to further entrench unnecessary gender stereotypes and thereby hold back the necessary process of social evolution.

Yet another reason this topic is so contentious for me...

 

[wizekrak]

I think the socio-cultural view has my vote. There isn't much I can add that hasn't been previously mentioned. If only you had godlike power to create a dozen isolated societies, each unknown to the other and operating in complete independence then you could really test these ideas.

I think that by careful manipulation of society (assuming the people in each microcosm operate as regular individuals would) you could sway the balance of sexual power either way. Look at the middle east where women are still subject to male rule and have few rights (I'm not a historian so my understanding may be a little flawed), now counter that with the North American standard where the woman tends to hold most of the cards. Same people, different society, different values, different behaviour. Of course this assumes that North Americans and Middle Eastern people have the same biological and physiological foundation (I think it's safe to say that they do).

 

[kittyinthedark]

Girls are not interested in philosophy, as far as I can tell. Philosophy is, quite possibly, the least sexy study/pursuit on earth lol. There is no bigger turn-off than discussing the true nature of reality and it's existence lol.

I'm aware that you're saying this light-heartedly, so bear with me, but this attitude is definitely one of your problems. If you truly believe that, it means you're walking into conversations assuming something about every girl you talk to - BIG no-no! I absolutely love talking philosophy with my friends, anything from scientific theory to the nature of god (and this is just lunchtime conversation, don't even think about when we get drunk!), and it would be very obvious to me when we started talking that you assumed I knew nothing about the topic. That definitely is a turn-off - it makes it seem like you think we're stupid.

Don't EVER assume. We pick up on that like a bee to honey, and it'll piss us off. And you're getting this helpful hint from a NOT self-described "pretty girl." Guys always assume I'm as dumb as a rock, and it makes me want to smack them. Any guy that I can tell assumes that I'm just a ditz or not smart or not funny, whatever, he gets the instant cold shoulder.

Another helpful hint: do stupid little shit for your girl - leave little notes for her, show up at her door with a 10 cent daisy, or shit, even some dandelions from the roadside. We eat that shit up!!!! I love when a guy goes out of his way to show little signs of affection. It lets us know that the romance is still there.


And to all the girlies remaining in this thread - you're right on target!

 

[glitterbizkit]

Re: Re: Re: Re: never lie

Glitterbizkit - Ironically, in discussing women, I have actually gone into the psychology of guys to a certain degree. For example, my little paragraph on the "nice guy" I wrote a few posts above. However, I do agree, I have not really gotten into men alll that much, but I certainly wouldn't mind. What, specifically, would you like to know? What questions do you have?

Oh and P.S. - I really enjoy your responses so far - I usually agree with them; they are insightful and honest. You seem to be very self-aware.

Why thank you. Self-aware.. I don't know. I analyse myself and my behaviour all the time, but the more I analyse, the more I realise there's still a *lot* I don't know about myself.

Well, I think you hit right on spot (for me at least) when you said that the ultimate goal for women in a relationship is to feel safe. What would you say the ultimate goal for men is? And please don't say sex unless you want to put me into a life-long depression and possibly on the road to lesbianism too... (j/k actually, you can say that it's sex if that's what you honestly think the answer is but I'm hoping it's not as simple as that)

 

[wizekrak]

For men, it's to feel powerful (to be desired to be looked up to, to be held in high regard).

 

[PhorIndicator]

*edited to remove personal information regarding another bluelighter* ~ rc

You haven't disproved any of my points with arguments, but merely stipulated they were wrong. That's not hard to do. Watch. I'll show you.

FairNymph, everything you said was wrong. I could drag up a bunch of references and books on the subject but as I've discussed it so thoroughly I don't feel like it. But basically, I'm contentious because I have proved this theory (fact) many times. Sorry to inform you that you're erroneous though. 100%

FairNymph will never she concede is wrong on a subject anyway, she will eventually let her emotions get involved, thus clouding her judgement. I don't expect anything beyond this in the next post she responds, either.

I'll be back later tonight to respond to the rest of the posts

 

[Strawberry_lovemuffin]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: never lie

What would you say the ultimate goal for men is?

I once read that, "Ultimately, Men want to be adored . Women want to be understood ."

Perhaps with the extra input now I'd change that to: "Men want to be powerful and adored. Women want to be safe and understood."

 

[HobbyIsBowling]

I could drag up a bunch of references and books on the subject but as I've discussed it so thoroughly I don't feel like it. But basically, I'm contentious because I have proved this theory (fact) many times. Sorry to inform you that you're erroneous though. 100%

I love ya fairNymph, but I've gotta say that from reading your posts, I have seen you do the above several times. Typical example:

fairNymph:"You're so clearly wrong, I've proven it" when all you've done is respond to some of the other person's points, not "disprove them 100%".

You've really gotta watch that, as this attitude all but kills any further open discussion. If you can scientifically *proove*(a very strong word) that someone is wrong, then by all means do so, but do not just say "I've been thru it a million times, I don't have time to enlighten anymore of you idiots."

Back on topic:

Okay, I'll bite. fairNymph: What is your 'proof' that men wanting to have sex with multiple women has *nothing* to do with biology? This should be interesting.

 

[Black Octagon]

*edited to remove personal information regarding another bluelighter* ~ rc

You haven't disproved any of my points with arguments, but merely stipulated they were wrong. That's not hard to do. Watch. I'll show you.

FairNymph, everything you said was wrong. I could drag up a bunch of references and books on the subject but as I've discussed it so thoroughly I don't feel like it. But basically, I'm contentious because I have proved this theory (fact) many times. Sorry to inform you that you're erroneous though. 100%

FairNymph will never she concede is wrong on a subject anyway, she will eventually let her emotions get involved, thus clouding her judgement. I don't expect anything beyond this in the next post she responds, either.

I'll be back later tonight to respond to the rest of the posts

No offense PhorIndicator, but I've just re-read all your posts and you haven't 'proven' any of your points either, merely 'stipulated that they were right.' You claimed that women hold the bargaining chip for sex by asserting that men and women have different natures. You didn't 'prove' this, merely dug up old biological stereotypes.

I admit that this discussion has been on the verge of getting heated a few times, but nevertheless, fairnymph and I challenged your argument by bringing up the issue of socialisation (or what I called the socio-cultural context). You've yet to show how your original theory holds up against these challenges. To again use a very banal example: if women hold the bargaining chip for sex for 'biological' reasons, how do you explain the fact that a primate could get sex out of a female by just beating her over the head? How do you explain the fact that we can't do that now? I've said it's because the socio-cultural context has changed, in that we now have law and order to enforce taboos on such behaviour. Only in this specific socio-cultural context can women hold a bargaining chip for sex. But it's not at base level from 'biological' reasons.

Unless bluelighters start citing recent and comprehensive studies (be they in the fields of biology, anthropology, psychology or whatever), I'm afraid to say we are BOUND to assertions. So let's try and engage with each other's assertions okay?

Looking forward to your response.

 

[PhorIndicator]

I'm not going to cite actual references or get comprehensive studies to make assertions. What I did was explain, in specific detail, a logical and coherent theory on the subject matter. I don't have the time to go citing references - nor do I want to go to all the trouble, or even feel its important enough to me just as in priority-wise - i have other stuff i need to do other than post in threads)

But I gave an in-depth response based on logic and conside, clear reasoning, so that's all I have to offer.

Like HobbyforBowling i think said earlier -

If you've got a better alternative theory, let's hear it.

 

[PhorIndicator]

Also, to glitterbizkit and some others, who have asked me questions, like what do men want in a female, I am going to respond to these, but as I anticipate they will be rather long posts, I can't do it today. I will probably tomorrow though.

 

[Fanch]

can you post links to these other forums? or is that not allowed.

 

[Black Octagon]

can you post links to these other forums? or is that not allowed.

can who post what links to what other forums?

 

[PhorIndicator]

Hmmm... what do men want? I would say that a sexual relationship is something a man seeks, but not solely on a sexual level, so don't get all bummed out. A man wants to be respected on a sexual level; to know that a woman finds him attractive an enjoys having sex with him. But the fact is, men have very high sex drives and thus do need sex in a relationship. it's just one of their needs.

Another thing a man seeks from a woman is to be VALIDATED. A man wants to be validated by a woman - to know that she respects him as a man and respects him as a contender within society and within, well, generally, with life. A man wants to know he is worthwhile to deserve a woman.

By the way - another thing women want in a relationship from men - to show them off. Women can be catty. They enjoy showing off their "man" to other females to prove what a "catch" he is. This is something a woman looks for in a relationship with her man. She wants to be able to show him off to her female peers. As to why she wants this, i don't know. perhaps to prove what kind of woman she is. The ladies will have to give the "why" to this.

But ladies - am i right or am i right?

Also - there are more things men seek and women seek in a relationship with each other. I will post them after work.

 

[Strawberry_lovemuffin]

By the way - another thing women want in a relationship from men - to show them off. Women can be catty. They enjoy showing off their "man" to other females to prove what a "catch" he is. This is something a woman looks for in a relationship with her man. She wants to be able to show him off to her female peers. As to why she wants this, i don't know. perhaps to prove what kind of woman she is. The ladies will have to give the "why" to this.

Um.... not really. I mean, that scenario assumes that the woman is somehow "lesser" and needs a man to increase her status or prove her worth. (not implying anything by that - just stating a fact) That his "status" (job, looks, success, coolness) by association increases hers, right? "I caught HIM!" Is that what you meant by 'showing him off', or did I get it wrong?

Lots of women these days are higher on the pecking order, or at the very least, equal to their men in terms of intelligence, financial security, career. So I'm not sure how it could show what kind of 'woman she is' if she's already a completely self-realised one.

Not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying I'm not sure this applies across the board.

 

[PhorIndicator]

That's why I said the "why" is up to the women. Which I think you just answered... I'm high though and dont want to read much hehe. I did not mean it in any way that could be interpreted as a woman competing with a man. I meant it solely between women themselves. they like to show off their man. why? you got me. i dont know.
YOU tell ME why

 

[Strawberry_lovemuffin]

I don't know, I can't answer that because I really don't think I *do* show him off... I mean I am proud of him, that he's cute and fun and gets along with people well... I guess there's a sense of pride in demonstrating you have a good relationship, and having "chosen" well (in terms of having a boyfriend people like). Your good taste, I guess, is validated when you introduce them to your friends. It's satisfying if they like him.

But it's not "showing off" nor is there any compeditive or victorious kind of element to it... at least not for me. I would actually feel uncomfortable if I made a single girl feel bad because of my happy relationship, especially one of my friends. I guess there may be some women who feel differently.

 

[EsourceR]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: never lie

I once read that, "Ultimately, Men want to be adored . Women want to be understood ."

Perhaps with the extra input now I'd change that to: "Men want to be powerful and adored. Women want to be safe and understood."

- this is exactly what i would have said too

why=?.....c'mon!!!!!! sometimes you just have to take it out on eachother (men vs women style) - we get to nag a little more and gossip too - ...hey- you guys get to play more pro sports for a hell of a lot more money ...i will admit god made a booboo here (among a few other inequalities between the sexes, which eventually even out im sure) ...i'm taking one for the team here, no offenses intended but you can generalize with definitions and/or feelings ... not everyone understands the differences in the deeper meanings i suppose

 

[PhorIndicator]

Re: YEA, ...way off topic ......oh well

Yes it is real, yes it is true, most don't like to admit our secret desires and preferences such as attractiveness, submissiveness, ..some of us hide and deny......the point is ...we're all different and alike (just whether we choose to be open with someone else about it. most people do not deny their internal desires... hence there are serial killers, we dont like to talk about it or admit it... but the truth hurts ..or others seek to hurt us ...based on the truths we hold dear)

I admire your openness and candor. I was wondering if you (and all the other females responding to this thread would open up a little more and divulge and describe what some of your "secret desires and preferences such as attractiveness, submissiveness...that some of you hide and deny" are. What REALLY turns you on. What turns you on? Do you like being dominated in the bedroom and thrown down on the mattress? Do you like being talked dirty to? like, "you nasty little slut, you little cock-whore, you want this cock don't you, oh yeah you do mmmmm yeah you naughty little slut" - not you specifically but the universal "you. Don't be shy please, and don't think i am trying to be chauvinistic or derisive towards females... i am just interested.

 

[glitterbizkit]

But it's not "showing off" nor is there any compeditive or victorious kind of element to it... at least not for me. I would actually feel uncomfortable if I made a single girl feel bad because of my happy relationship, especially one of my friends. I guess there may be some women who feel differently.

Agreed. The measure for how much I actually like a guy is how proud I am to be seen with him in public. It's not really about status or competitiveness... but if I'm really crazy about a guy then I'll think he's the most wonderful thing since sliced bread and I'll expect the rest of the world to think so too. Like "look at this wonderful human being, he's mine, all mine..!". I guess it's basically what you said, PhorIndicator, but the way you put it made it sound like a pretty superficial thing to do. It's not about being catty- it's about wanting the rest of the world to know what a great guy he is. I'm the same with my friends really, to a lesser degree- I want the rest of the world to know how great they are too!

It's the same reason why we let our friend know every little detail of how great our new boyfriend is- not to make the friend feel bad or to show that we are in any way better than her for managing to 'catch' such a guy, but simply because we have to talk about him! Well, that's speaking for myself anyway. When I have a new infatuation, I can't shut up about it.