Pander Bear
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thats what happens when you lose late in the season
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TheLoveBandit
Retired Never Was, Coulda been wannabe
at home
to a team perceived as being much inferior at the time (recall USF was #18 at the time, ILL was out of the top 25).
Also keep in mind, WVU started the season ranked #3 while OSU was #11. And while I'll state that I don't believe early season rankings are worth shit, it does give an advantage to the teams at the top starting out, which continues to benefit them later on - fair or not, the voters may have difficulty admitting a team they ranked lower at the beginning may in fact be better than the team they ranked higher.
You could also pull out stats like the fact that both have played only 4 ranked teams, and only one of them was in the top 20 (makes them even, for the most part with an almost imperceptible nod to WVU). But OSU won @#23, @#25, home against #21, and then @#21 for 3 ranked road wins and a home loss to an unranked team. Meanwhile WVU lost @#18, and won @#25, @#22, and are hosting #20 this week giving them a matching 3 wins on the road.
One could point to OSU's slightly higher margin of victory in these ranked matchups, but that would be countered by conference strength and SoS which puts the BIG10+1 at the bottom of the power conferences![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
Ultimately, I'd say it comes down to a) losing to an unranked team, b) at home, c) late in the season (and unfair kicker, but one that exists).
to a team perceived as being much inferior at the time (recall USF was #18 at the time, ILL was out of the top 25).
Also keep in mind, WVU started the season ranked #3 while OSU was #11. And while I'll state that I don't believe early season rankings are worth shit, it does give an advantage to the teams at the top starting out, which continues to benefit them later on - fair or not, the voters may have difficulty admitting a team they ranked lower at the beginning may in fact be better than the team they ranked higher.
You could also pull out stats like the fact that both have played only 4 ranked teams, and only one of them was in the top 20 (makes them even, for the most part with an almost imperceptible nod to WVU). But OSU won @#23, @#25, home against #21, and then @#21 for 3 ranked road wins and a home loss to an unranked team. Meanwhile WVU lost @#18, and won @#25, @#22, and are hosting #20 this week giving them a matching 3 wins on the road.
One could point to OSU's slightly higher margin of victory in these ranked matchups, but that would be countered by conference strength and SoS which puts the BIG10+1 at the bottom of the power conferences
Ultimately, I'd say it comes down to a) losing to an unranked team, b) at home, c) late in the season (and unfair kicker, but one that exists).
atlas said:
atlas is right, you cannot lose that late in the season. last year, the Gators were in good shape because they lost fairly early in the season; as did LSU this year. losing your second to last game will kill you. luckily, OSU only dropped 3 spots from the loss to Illinois, mostly because they lost by a touchdown and because Illinois is a damn good team this year.
I was talking to some friends now that I am back in Ohio about a WVU/OSU BCS title game. OSU's only losses two the last two years have been against teams that run the spread - but what I think people are forgetting is that they have played many other teams that run the spread offense. Purdue has ran the spread ever since they have been under Coach Tiller, Minnesota started running the spread this year, Washington ran the spread against OSU this year (because they saw what Florida did in the NC game and tried to mimmick it), while Michigan State often runs the spread (but also runs more traditional I-formations and off-set I formations).
I think the WVU/OSU game would be interesting because WVU's defense is fantastically shitty. I think both offenses would score early and often, but defense wins championships and the Mountaineer's defense just cannot be matched against the Buckeyes' defense.
anyways, I am praying that Mizzou, Kansas, and LSU all lose in the next two weeks.
the Big 10 will not extend their schedule for a NC game, because we have 11 teams and almost every team (any teams that matter) will play each other throughout the season. our conference is not split into two divisions (like the ACC or SEC) and it does not have an even number of 12 teams (like the Big 12) so a conference championship does not make any sense.
also, conference championships kinda piss me off. anybody that knows anything knows that they are only played so that the conference can make more money, which is horse shit.
smotpoker
Bluelighter
TheLoveBandit said:at home
to a team perceived as being much inferior at the time (recall USF was #18 at the time, ILL was out of the top 25).
Also keep in mind, WVU started the season ranked #3 while OSU was #11. And while I'll state that I don't believe early season rankings are worth shit, it does give an advantage to the teams at the top starting out, which continues to benefit them later on - fair or not, the voters may have difficulty admitting a team they ranked lower at the beginning may in fact be better than the team they ranked higher.
You could also pull out stats like the fact that both have played only 4 ranked teams, and only one of them was in the top 20 (makes them even, for the most part with an almost imperceptible nod to WVU). But OSU won @#23, @#25, home against #21, and then @#21 for 3 ranked road wins and a home loss to an unranked team. Meanwhile WVU lost @#18, and won @#25, @#22, and are hosting #20 this week giving them a matching 3 wins on the road.
One could point to OSU's slightly higher margin of victory in these ranked matchups, but that would be countered by conference strength and SoS which puts the BIG10+1 at the bottom of the power conferences
Ultimately, I'd say it comes down to a) losing to an unranked team, b) at home, c) late in the season (and unfair kicker, but one that exists).
You're trying to tell me the Big East is a tougher conference than the Big 10? Gimme a break. If you compared the bottom team to the top in both conference's you'd have to give the edge to the Big 10.
SOS overall, maybe, but WV's non conference schedule hasn't exactly been impressive either.
You are right that losing late in the season hurts, but to say that where the teams they lost to WERE ranked matters is pure BS. With that logic, you think that if a team started off #1 in preseason lost every game, the team they played first should get a higher ranking because when they played in the first week they were #1, even though the rest of the season shows that they really aren't very good.
Oh well, I will just sit back and watch this weekend. Don't be surprised if WVU chokes against UConn. Wishful thinking but it could definitely happen.
TheLoveBandit
Retired Never Was, Coulda been wannabe
Axl - I was more thinking of the fact that the Big10+1 falls off the TV after Thanksgiving while everyone else is still getting time in front of the voters. Don't add a team, or a championship game - just extend the season. Give an extra week break somewhere in the schedule - my point being that for your team rankings and individual player awards, the Big10+1 could benefit by having games aired through the end of the season. A simple enough step to take with noticable benefits. I can't see why they wouldn't do it, especially when people whinge about the long layoff before bowl games being detrimental to the team performance (now, have a Big10+1 fan tell me that whilst claiming the conference also wins most of it's bowl games ).
smotpoker, of the places that list any kind of conference strength (aside from a personal opinion as the one you offer) would be these:
Anderson Sports which ranks the BigEasy 3rd with a SoS of .447 and the Big10+1 6th at .373 (behind ACC and Big12). Massey Ratings also puts BigEasy 3rd and Big10+1 at 6th, as does Sagarin Ratings. Only the Colley Rankings move you up to 3rd while putting Big Easy in 4th, and they point out the 3 regular season matchups between the two conferences were all won by the Big 10+1 (congrats).....and that you've managed to fluff your records by going 16-2 against the MAC while the Big Easy only went 7-1 against them (they made up a little ground by going 6-0 against Div1-AA opponents while the Big10+1 went 6-2
).
But those are mostly computer rankings that leave out the emotion. If you want to put it back into a more human comparison, a quick glance thru the BCS standings over the weeks shows both conferences having roughly an equal number of teams in the top 25 with reasonably close average rankings. I'd call that a wash. But I'm going to have to wholly agree with your take on how beating #1 early vs late effects a team's perceived strength.
I'm with you, though for this weekend. I feel like the next couple of weeks will have a lot of back-up horns going BEEEP-BEEEP-BEEEP as teams everywhere back into places (WVU backs into NC by Big12 failures, UGA backs into SEC championship by TEN failure, etc). Hell, I really think people will claim UCONN backed into the BCS (provided they win, which I think is possible), despite the fact that like OSU they will have done what was asked of them - win all your games (but one) and win your conference. People just don't want to admit UCONN into that spotlight because it's UCONN and not a team they are used to seeing near the top. I think that part is particularly funny - UCONN in the BCS bowls (they'd probably get killed, but who knows) and BigE champ. I'm not saying they would be more BCS worthy than OSU, but I don't believe anyone can argue they aren't AS deserving should they win. (Note, I'm talking BCS, not NC.....but the imp in me asks if OSU has any better reason to be in the NC than UCONN should they both end with one loss and conference champs. I'd have to look at who they beat (UCONN's early schedule was garbage...on par with Akron, Kent, YSU) and see which ranked teams they beat, etc).
).smotpoker, of the places that list any kind of conference strength (aside from a personal opinion as the one you offer) would be these:
Anderson Sports which ranks the BigEasy 3rd with a SoS of .447 and the Big10+1 6th at .373 (behind ACC and Big12). Massey Ratings also puts BigEasy 3rd and Big10+1 at 6th, as does Sagarin Ratings. Only the Colley Rankings move you up to 3rd while putting Big Easy in 4th, and they point out the 3 regular season matchups between the two conferences were all won by the Big 10+1 (congrats).....and that you've managed to fluff your records by going 16-2 against the MAC while the Big Easy only went 7-1 against them (they made up a little ground by going 6-0 against Div1-AA opponents while the Big10+1 went 6-2
).But those are mostly computer rankings that leave out the emotion. If you want to put it back into a more human comparison, a quick glance thru the BCS standings over the weeks shows both conferences having roughly an equal number of teams in the top 25 with reasonably close average rankings. I'd call that a wash. But I'm going to have to wholly agree with your take on how beating #1 early vs late effects a team's perceived strength.
I'm with you, though for this weekend. I feel like the next couple of weeks will have a lot of back-up horns going BEEEP-BEEEP-BEEEP as teams everywhere back into places (WVU backs into NC by Big12 failures, UGA backs into SEC championship by TEN failure, etc). Hell, I really think people will claim UCONN backed into the BCS (provided they win, which I think is possible), despite the fact that like OSU they will have done what was asked of them - win all your games (but one) and win your conference. People just don't want to admit UCONN into that spotlight because it's UCONN and not a team they are used to seeing near the top. I think that part is particularly funny - UCONN in the BCS bowls (they'd probably get killed, but who knows) and BigE champ. I'm not saying they would be more BCS worthy than OSU, but I don't believe anyone can argue they aren't AS deserving should they win. (Note, I'm talking BCS, not NC.....but the imp in me asks if OSU has any better reason to be in the NC than UCONN should they both end with one loss and conference champs. I'd have to look at who they beat (UCONN's early schedule was garbage...on par with Akron, Kent, YSU) and see which ranked teams they beat, etc).
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cravNbeets
Bluelighter
shake em up shake em up shake em up shake em
12 teams ranked 5th or higher beaten by an unranked opponent. definitely the craziest season i've ever witnessed
12 teams ranked 5th or higher beaten by an unranked opponent. definitely the craziest season i've ever witnessed
JosephTHeSequel
Bluelighter
is anyone watching this tennessee/kentucky game??? its insane!
TheLoveBandit
Retired Never Was, Coulda been wannabe
omg
uk sux, ut lix ballz
uconn hoax, wvu whatever
texas who?
With LSU losing and TEN winning, you can pu tme in the SEC -> SUX category. I can't even have teams win when it has no bearing on my gators. Not even for amusement and torture of my enemies. GAH.
Go Mizzou. Why not?
uk sux, ut lix ballz
uconn hoax, wvu whatever
texas who?
With LSU losing and TEN winning, you can pu tme in the SEC -> SUX category. I can't even have teams win when it has no bearing on my gators. Not even for amusement and torture of my enemies. GAH.
Go Mizzou. Why not?
Zagenth
Bluelighter
Thank you Kentucky, you sorry bastards. You had numerous chances to put the game away, but noooooo, you had to choke. As much as I wanted to see Tenn lose so GA would play LSU, it was still a really engrossing game. The SEC has had more than a few nail biters this season, what a great conference to watch. 
And LSU losing to Arkansas, well, I think that seems fitting. The SEC, to me, IMO, seems more like the NFL than any other conference. You know how they say for the NFL "on any given Sunday"? Well, the SEC is "on any given week". There's a ton of competition in the SEC and anyone can beat anybody. Just goes to show how strong of a conference it is.
Look at the Kansas/Mizzou game. Kansas finally played a really good team and they lost, nuff said. Mizzou should end up beating Oklahoma and wind up in the BCS National Title game. Daniels is playing great right now, and Mizzou is a MUCH better team now than they were when they played Oklahoma earlier in the season.
West Virginia, only a fluke would have them losing to Pitt. They win, they will find themselves in the Super Dome.
And Ohio State, their hopes are still alive. Oklahoma wins, and I don't see why Ohio State wouldn't end up in the title game. Ohio State should end up #3 after this week, and if Oklahoma beats Mizzou, OSU should hit #2. So you Buckeye fans still have a shot.
As far as the Heisman race, only reason Tebow doesn't get it is because he's a sophomore. His stats should speak for themselves, cause they are incredible, he's such a great player, but I think they would rather give it to someone who is farther in their college career. *shrug* I could be wrong though and him still winding up with it.
And LSU losing to Arkansas, well, I think that seems fitting. The SEC, to me, IMO, seems more like the NFL than any other conference. You know how they say for the NFL "on any given Sunday"? Well, the SEC is "on any given week". There's a ton of competition in the SEC and anyone can beat anybody. Just goes to show how strong of a conference it is.
Look at the Kansas/Mizzou game. Kansas finally played a really good team and they lost, nuff said. Mizzou should end up beating Oklahoma and wind up in the BCS National Title game. Daniels is playing great right now, and Mizzou is a MUCH better team now than they were when they played Oklahoma earlier in the season.
West Virginia, only a fluke would have them losing to Pitt. They win, they will find themselves in the Super Dome.
And Ohio State, their hopes are still alive. Oklahoma wins, and I don't see why Ohio State wouldn't end up in the title game. Ohio State should end up #3 after this week, and if Oklahoma beats Mizzou, OSU should hit #2. So you Buckeye fans still have a shot.
As far as the Heisman race, only reason Tebow doesn't get it is because he's a sophomore. His stats should speak for themselves, cause they are incredible, he's such a great player, but I think they would rather give it to someone who is farther in their college career. *shrug* I could be wrong though and him still winding up with it.
Damm LSU shot themselves in the foot as usual (i.e when the score was even at 21, Matt Flynn threw a 60 yard bomb to the TB Hester but it got called back due to a penalty....wouldve put Arky bacvks against the wall and i believe LSU would've pulled it out then) BUT........this time they couldnt overcome it.....grrrr...
I said it earlier....Arky is a very good team especially now that they have some decent QB play....Too bad they didnt start to gel till the end of the season...
I was also really hoping UK couldve put the game away against Tenn as i also would've loved to see a UGA/LSU rematch in the SECCG.....But UK choked twice maybe even three times now i think about it....once at the end of the 4th Q having 1st and goal at the 1 w/ enough time to score and again after the INT and only needing a field goal they played too conservatively and Tenn came up w/ an all timer of a block....and lastly....after the personal foul putting Tenn on the 40 yrd line the UK secondary blows their assignments and one play BOOM....Tenn scores and eventually takes the game....
But oh well.....LSU still has a LONG SHOT at making the NC game.....We need OU to beat Mizz and Pitt to make an all timer of an upset against WVU....Yea right.....
Actually i think the Mizz - WVU title game matchup looks like a pretty intresting one.....First off , it will be two non-traditonal programs squaring off....Also it will be two very good offenses and have the potential to be a very exciting game....Although i would stay favor WVU....But Chase Daniels had a hell of a game vs Kansas.....I think if he has a above average to great game over OU....He'll steal the Heisman from Tebow (this guy def deserves it w/ McFadden coming in a close second)
USC is playing like they should have been all year.....I wish somehow LSU could get a shot at the Rose Bowl this year....But instead, if OSU makes the NC then UGA would most likely get the bid w/ LSU taking on Hawaii most likely in the Sugar....
Oh well....
On a side-almost-unrelated note......I spent all weekend sick.....so i stayed in and watched just about every significant CFB game this Thanksgiving weekend.....Can you believe that there are people on ESPN that get to watch and comment on CFB for living??! Man what a life....So i guess when the wife tries to stand in front of the game you can reply "Dont disturb me, im working" hehe......
I said it earlier....Arky is a very good team especially now that they have some decent QB play....Too bad they didnt start to gel till the end of the season...
I was also really hoping UK couldve put the game away against Tenn as i also would've loved to see a UGA/LSU rematch in the SECCG.....But UK choked twice maybe even three times now i think about it....once at the end of the 4th Q having 1st and goal at the 1 w/ enough time to score and again after the INT and only needing a field goal they played too conservatively and Tenn came up w/ an all timer of a block....and lastly....after the personal foul putting Tenn on the 40 yrd line the UK secondary blows their assignments and one play BOOM....Tenn scores and eventually takes the game....
But oh well.....LSU still has a LONG SHOT at making the NC game.....We need OU to beat Mizz and Pitt to make an all timer of an upset against WVU....Yea right.....
Actually i think the Mizz - WVU title game matchup looks like a pretty intresting one.....First off , it will be two non-traditonal programs squaring off....Also it will be two very good offenses and have the potential to be a very exciting game....Although i would stay favor WVU....But Chase Daniels had a hell of a game vs Kansas.....I think if he has a above average to great game over OU....He'll steal the Heisman from Tebow (this guy def deserves it w/ McFadden coming in a close second)
USC is playing like they should have been all year.....I wish somehow LSU could get a shot at the Rose Bowl this year....But instead, if OSU makes the NC then UGA would most likely get the bid w/ LSU taking on Hawaii most likely in the Sugar....
Oh well....
On a side-almost-unrelated note......I spent all weekend sick.....so i stayed in and watched just about every significant CFB game this Thanksgiving weekend.....Can you believe that there are people on ESPN that get to watch and comment on CFB for living??! Man what a life....So i guess when the wife tries to stand in front of the game you can reply "Dont disturb me, im working" hehe......
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I think mcfadden deserves the heisman he nearly single handedly beat LSU 3 rushing and one passing touchdown as a RB jeez. Against the NO.1 team in the nation that is impressive. Teebow couldent beat LSU mcfadden did. Hawaii deserves a BCS bid I think they would have a legit chance of scoring with any team in the nation june jones is a great coach
Pander Bear
Bluelight Crew
I like how no matter how a season is shaping up, there's always something wrong with the BCS system.
Its not quite as glaring as keeping an Unbeaten Auburn out of the title game, but this whole "OSU could back into a championship by not playing" and "we have to change the rule to get unbeaten hawaii into a BCS game" and "USC and Georgia are the teams playing the best football right now, and neither of them have a chance at a title".
That last one is a little dubious, and I only mention it because of my fanhood, but its nice to hear on ESPN radio. As is the fact that the sooners are predicted to beat Missouri, fucking up things further. My dream matchup is USC vs. UGA, OSU vs. WV, LSU vs. ASU, and VT vs. Hawaii.
not happenig, but those are the pairings I'd watch. Thoughts?
Its not quite as glaring as keeping an Unbeaten Auburn out of the title game, but this whole "OSU could back into a championship by not playing" and "we have to change the rule to get unbeaten hawaii into a BCS game" and "USC and Georgia are the teams playing the best football right now, and neither of them have a chance at a title".
That last one is a little dubious, and I only mention it because of my fanhood, but its nice to hear on ESPN radio. As is the fact that the sooners are predicted to beat Missouri, fucking up things further. My dream matchup is USC vs. UGA, OSU vs. WV, LSU vs. ASU, and VT vs. Hawaii.
not happenig, but those are the pairings I'd watch. Thoughts?
Pander Bear
Bluelight Crew
mmmm, tonight's wet dream material
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/news?slug=dw-playoff112707&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/news?slug=dw-playoff112707&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
34-dihydroxyphen
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2007
- Messages
- 2,362
That playoff picture looks nice. It is ridiculous that we don't have a playoff at this point. The voices are becoming so loud in favor of it though that I wouldn't be surprised to see one in the next couple years.
TheLoveBandit
Retired Never Was, Coulda been wannabe
^^Hadn't seen that yet, but it does look delicious. Great matchups (UCF took TEX to the 4th would be fun against OSU, LSU spanked VT and gets a shot at BC for comparisons, HI and KAN in an offensive blitzkrieg, etc) - that would be fun.
Pander Bear
Bluelight Crew
Today was hilarious.
TOTALLY FUCKING HILARIOUS.
Send the Dawgs to New Orleans, or send them to Pasadena. Either way, I'll be happier than a pig in slop.
TOTALLY FUCKING HILARIOUS.
Send the Dawgs to New Orleans, or send them to Pasadena. Either way, I'll be happier than a pig in slop.
Zagenth
Bluelighter
GA winning the NT game is stupid. Who would vote for a team that didn't win their own division? OSU WILL get it. But as far as who gets the #2 decision? I think the voters will vote for LSU over GA. GA didn''t win their division, I think LSU would take it.
No one will see, we shall see.
No one will see, we shall see.
Zagenth
Bluelighter
If GA makes it, it will PROVE that the BCS means shit. A team that didn't win their division making it to the BCS championship would prove that the BCS is full of crap.
cravNbeets
Bluelighter
was the bcs not full of shit b4? the fact that uga didnt win their division is a technicality imo.... i think most of us here will agree that georgia is a better team than tenn. either way i like the buckeyes' chances