granddeception2
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Kratom The Kratom Megathread
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Thats the thing tho, you have addictive guys like yourself who have to thrash everything, then there are otehr ppl who use things responsibly. So it can be hard to seperate the wheat from the chaff.
For instance everyone said how addictive mdpv and crack are to me but when I tried them I was not bothered by them. Just one hit (or a day of hitting) and quit.
Now ofc I wouldnt want to test fate and make a habit of doing these things, but every time Ive taken so called addictive drugs ive found the side effects just as bad or worse than the high itself so I have never understood how anyone could take them regular. Ie benzoes give good anxiolytic effect but then you feel like a zombie for the day after so its like a zero sum game.
But Im also a hypochondriac now so too scared to take any sort of risks in life, yet am still stuck with mind crushing depression 24/7.
For instance everyone said how addictive mdpv and crack are to me but when I tried them I was not bothered by them. Just one hit (or a day of hitting) and quit.
Now ofc I wouldnt want to test fate and make a habit of doing these things, but every time Ive taken so called addictive drugs ive found the side effects just as bad or worse than the high itself so I have never understood how anyone could take them regular. Ie benzoes give good anxiolytic effect but then you feel like a zombie for the day after so its like a zero sum game.
But Im also a hypochondriac now so too scared to take any sort of risks in life, yet am still stuck with mind crushing depression 24/7.
I for one fiend on the days I am off of it. Even after being clean from it for several weeks. My brother on the other hand, not so much.
Trust me dudes and dudettes, it may not be as bad or debilitating as a heroin habit, but if you let yourself get into it for long enough, eventually you WILL find yourself wanting more and more. Unless you are the type of person that can handle pretty much anything and not be addicted. I do know a few select people who can actually do roxies like once a month and have been maintaining that frequency for years. But those people are few an far between. Chances are you aren't one of them. In a way, Kratom can be MORE addictive in some certain respects, simply because of the fact it is so easily obtainable and seems so benign.
"Kratom's not a drug! You ever suck some dick for Kratom?!" - Bob Saget (alt.)
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Oxycodone and hydrocodone are not opiates, they are opioids.
I've only tried it on 4 days, but the other day was the most successful day yet, it was really really pleasant all day long.
But that was Saturday, and no, I haven't been fiending for it.
Even though I don't know much about this stuff, what I do know is that it takes weeks of everyday usage to get physically addicted.
Psychological addiction is a totally different story, and you could do something ONE time and be fiending to do it again because it was so fun, but that might be anything, something that's not even a drug.
Oh...I thought they came from the poppy plant?
My mistake.
Well, they are definitely stronger CNS depressants than Kratom, but that's a totally different story, thanks for the clarification.
I for one fiend on the days I am off of it. Even after being clean from it for several weeks. My brother on the other hand, not so much.
Trust me dudes and dudettes, it may not be as bad or debilitating as a heroin habit, but if you let yourself get into it for long enough, eventually you WILL find yourself wanting more and more. Unless you are the type of person that can handle pretty much anything and not be addicted. I do know a few select people who can actually do roxies like once a month and have been maintaining that frequency for years. But those people are few an far between. Chances are you aren't one of them. In a way, Kratom can be MORE addictive in some certain respects, simply because of the fact it is so easily obtainable and seems so benign.
"Kratom's not a drug! You ever suck some dick for Kratom?!" - Bob Saget (alt.)
That's true, but at the same time, if you have someone like me who is TERRIFIED of experiencing physical withdrawal symptoms, that might keep you in check from doing it too often.
Fear is a strong motivator.
whiteroom67
Bluelighter
True, but I've gone through withdrawal several times, stayed clean for months, and eventually have gone back. This last time was pure hell, and I fear going through it again immensely... but I know for a fact it wouldn't stop me from getting addicted again, at least so early in recovery.
liftedgift
Bluelighter
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I for one fiend on the days I am off of it. Even after being clean from it for several weeks. My brother on the other hand, not so much.
Trust me dudes and dudettes, it may not be as bad or debilitating as a heroin habit, but if you let yourself get into it for long enough, eventually you WILL find yourself wanting more and more. Unless you are the type of person that can handle pretty much anything and not be addicted. I do know a few select people who can actually do roxies like once a month and have been maintaining that frequency for years. But those people are few an far between. Chances are you aren't one of them. In a way, Kratom can be MORE addictive in some certain respects, simply because of the fact it is so easily obtainable and seems so benign.
"Kratom's not a drug! You ever suck some dick for Kratom?!" - Bob Saget (alt.)
Yup, it sucks to taper kratom since it is so short acting. The best way IMO is to find a weak plain leaf/ or some stem and vein leaf that will keep most of the WD away but won't get you high.
The worst part of kratom WD is the boredom/depression/irritability. I did a 5 day break and physically it wasn't bad as I used phenibut to knock out any symptoms but by day 5 I was so bored.
Just got off probation and am trying to get off all this legal shit I got myself addicted to. I'm on day 4 of no phenibut and I am pretty much out of kratom. I "lucked" out a year or so ago by buying some shitty leaf that has just been sitting here, but it is the perfect leaf to taper with so I guess it worked out. I'm sure weed would handle my boredom, as I haven't smoked yet since I got off probation to see if it would help.
whiteroom67
Bluelighter
Rather than hittin up the green herb (which by no means I have nothing against), I would instead strongly recommend finding yourself an avocation. What are your natural gifts that you and/or other people tend to notice about you... notice that you're naturally really good at? And what is your passion... what is something that gets your blood flowing? Now I know it may feel hard to feel passionate about anything after being off of Kratom for only such a short period of time, but while you were still on it, or before you started doing it, what did you feel passion for? Find a way to combine your gifts and your passion... there may be several ways to do this, and throw yourself into those things. You will rid yourself of boredom very quickly. Also, eat well and exercise. Combination of weightlifting and varied cardio with stretching will get your body's metabolism up, and will get the endorphin and dopamine stores flowing. Who knows, maybe that could turn into one of your avocations?
When lifting though, keep workouts short and infrequent, and focus on the big lifts like squats, deadlifts, cleans, snatches, pullups, standing presses, bent over rows and bench presses... stuff like that - all with free weights. Not all of those every workout of course. Split it up into maybe 3 exercises per workout more or less and you can try doing 2 different workouts, each one once per week. i.e. standing presses, squats, and bent over rows on day 1 and then 3 or 4 or 5 days later when you feel recovered and did some cardio on those in-between days... workout 2 can be deadlifts, bench presses and pullups. Finish with a few situps or leg raises and you're good. Only use free weights though, no machines. That's how to be able to use your muscles in real life. Do 5 sets of 5 or 4 sets of 6 or something like that. Keep it under an hour. Make sure you use good form though. You'd be surprised what short, but really heavy and exhausting weightlifting workouts like this will do for your mood and metabolism for even a couple days afterwards. Start light of course, and hammer proper technique in before slowly increasing weight. The heavy squats and deadlifts really get your body pumping out the good stuff. Keep carbs low - under 150 grams per day, protein moderate - around or slightly less than one gram per bodyweight, and the rest of your calories in fat - but good fat, mostly monounsaturated. Some saturated fat is good, especially when lifting heavy, but still not too much. Very little polyunsaturated fat. NO trans fat! LOTS of fruits and veggies! Especially berries and green leafy veggies! Of course, consult your physician before doing/trying/starting anything I just said - I don't know you or your potential health issues/problems lol. But my opinion... that FDA approved "food pyramid" is garbage. If everyone followed that with all those carbs at the bottom, we'd all be fat as hell... just sayin
![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
I only suggest that specific type of weightlifting advice I said because I see so many people fall for the new "Mr. Olympia's Super Get Shredded" routine. None of those work unless you're on steroids/prohormones/whatever. They will only destroy your body, unless you're taking something, or just use it for a very short period of time after already building up a huge foundation, which 99% of people don't have. Think "pre-contest" in that sense.
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《Plasticity》
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I for one fiend on the days I am off of it. Even after being clean from it for several weeks. My brother on the other hand, not so much.
Trust me dudes and dudettes, it may not be as bad or debilitating as a heroin habit, but if you let yourself get into it for long enough, eventually you WILL find yourself wanting more and more. Unless you are the type of person that can handle pretty much anything and not be addicted. I do know a few select people who can actually do roxies like once a month and have been maintaining that frequency for years. But those people are few an far between. Chances are you aren't one of them. In a way, Kratom can be MORE addictive in some certain respects, simply because of the fact it is so easily obtainable and seems so benign.
"Kratom's not a drug! You ever suck some dick for Kratom?!" - Bob Saget (alt.)
What a load of horse shit, who are you to say that you "WILL" crave kratom (or any substance really) if you take it for any extended period of time? I know more people irl who have taken kratom and not got addicted, and likely never will then those who have... in fact, I was the only one out of the tens of people I've let take kratom with me who chose to pick up a dependancy so to go out and say that "chances are your not one of them" means nothing, nobody can say how others will truely react when taking any substance.
My GF and I have lived together for the majority of my kratom addiction (which lasted about 4 years but I've been clean for months and have no desire to use anymore) and while she was constantly around kratom and also enjoyed a cup of tea every now and then kratom just had no pull for her, not even a craving. Also what does being "one of the people who can take anything and not get addicted" have to do with anything? People are drawn to different drugs so just because you can shoot heroin with irregularity doesn't mean that you will be any more resistant to a meth addiction... just sayin.
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whiteroom67
Bluelighter
Okay maybe you're right, I'm just lookin out though. It would suck if another person did get addicted. I only say that because I know my addiction to it sucks, and I would really hate for anyone else to have to go through the same thing. Maybe he won't crave it more and more and get addicted, but he should at least be aware of the possibility is all.
I myself am what you could call a "poly-drug addict". Though opiates and Kratom are my DOC. Lately, I've found myself jonesing for coke though, for no reason, which is weird considering I normally don't even like stimulants all that much. They tend to give me anxiety.
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whiteroom67
Bluelighter
Him and I actually spoke over PM about it too, so he knows how our situations are different.
So with withdrawal to opiates is it like being in burning pain all the time till your brain cells upregulate again?
i know heroin is worse but do you also feel on fire with pain from kratom withdrawal too?
I mean esctasy comedowns were more than bad enough with a lack of happy chemicals so i can only imagine how excurtiating it would feel to have your pain receptors on fire for lack of endorphins or whatever they are.
i know heroin is worse but do you also feel on fire with pain from kratom withdrawal too?
I mean esctasy comedowns were more than bad enough with a lack of happy chemicals so i can only imagine how excurtiating it would feel to have your pain receptors on fire for lack of endorphins or whatever they are.
whiteroom67
Bluelighter
Physically Kratom withdrawal lasts anywhere from 3-5 days normally and yeah you'll most likely have the chills, sweats, fluctuating body temp, runny nose, watery eyes, random pains throughout your body, stomach issues up the ass (or out the ass 
), and restlessness of the limbs, though not necessarily as bad in intensity as heroin... although possibly close if you've been doing lots of extracts for a decent amount of time. I personally found the mental effects like anxiety and depression/mood swings, anhedonia, etc worse from Kratom withdrawal than from oxy withdrawal, and they last longer than the physical effects, like up to 2 or 3 weeks, but it largely depends on how bad the habit is... I never withdrew from H though so I can't really comment on that.
), and restlessness of the limbs, though not necessarily as bad in intensity as heroin... although possibly close if you've been doing lots of extracts for a decent amount of time. I personally found the mental effects like anxiety and depression/mood swings, anhedonia, etc worse from Kratom withdrawal than from oxy withdrawal, and they last longer than the physical effects, like up to 2 or 3 weeks, but it largely depends on how bad the habit is... I never withdrew from H though so I can't really comment on that.
《Plasticity》
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Of course it would be a shame for someone to get hooked on anything from coffee to heroin, however scaremongering isn't the way to go about it. I've spoken with berdo months back and also reccomended he stay away from kratom iirc but ultimately there's no way of truely telling if someone will get hooked on anything. I know people who hate kratom with a passion, and I know those who enjoy it quite immensely but that doesn't mean they're gonna start taking it all day everyday. Alot of folk in my family are alcoholics, in fact sometimes I think I have "the gene" for addiction predisposition but I hate alcohol more than any drug so that goes to show how everyone has their own poison.
Btw, I'm also a poly-drug user, though I consider psychedelics my true love and DOC I use drugs from every class excluding stims, dissociatives, and anti-cholinergic delerients but that's pretty irrelevant to any of my kratom use. I understand your message, I just don't think your going about it right by scaring people away from kratom because you find yourseld having problems, not everyone is built the same nor has the same draws to a certain class of drugs... in fact my best friends LOVES opiates (though only uses occasionally) but absolutely hates kratom. I think those at the greatest risk of dependancy are those who are either careless about drug use in general or those with any degree of mental illness whether it be anxiety, depression, or anhedonia. Anxiety relief was the reason I chose to use kratom and.it was a.fantastic aid up until the end where kratom really started making me miserably anxious so I quit easily and am now anxiety and addiction free. No cravings, nothing...
Btw, I'm also a poly-drug user, though I consider psychedelics my true love and DOC I use drugs from every class excluding stims, dissociatives, and anti-cholinergic delerients but that's pretty irrelevant to any of my kratom use. I understand your message, I just don't think your going about it right by scaring people away from kratom because you find yourseld having problems, not everyone is built the same nor has the same draws to a certain class of drugs... in fact my best friends LOVES opiates (though only uses occasionally) but absolutely hates kratom. I think those at the greatest risk of dependancy are those who are either careless about drug use in general or those with any degree of mental illness whether it be anxiety, depression, or anhedonia. Anxiety relief was the reason I chose to use kratom and.it was a.fantastic aid up until the end where kratom really started making me miserably anxious so I quit easily and am now anxiety and addiction free. No cravings, nothing...
whiteroom67
Bluelighter
Yeah no no no I wasn't trying to scare him away. I guess that's what it sounded like though lol. I have introduced SOOO many people onto Kratom because I think it's awesome. However I also think, and I'm sure you can agree, that a lot of people tend to downplay its potential for addiction. I've seen so many people on here and other forums alike be like "nah that shit's like withdrawing from coffee its nothin" or some even go so far as to make the person dealing with the WD's asking for help feel like they are some kinda pussy or something. So I wasn't trying to scare them away, though reading back I guess that's what it sounded like lol. Just that the potential for addiction is there and when it's there it's no joke. But you're right I know a lot of people that use Kratom and aren't addicted either.
Opiates and Kratom are my DOC... but we have a love/hate relationship. I agree with you on psychedelics being my true DOC. Though I don't do them very often... I always need to make sure the set/setting is right, and lately it just hasn't been.
Opiates and Kratom are my DOC... but we have a love/hate relationship. I agree with you on psychedelics being my true DOC. Though I don't do them very often... I always need to make sure the set/setting is right, and lately it just hasn't been.
liftedgift
Bluelighter
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Haha thanks man but it's not like suicide depression. I've been lifting for a good 2 years now, 4 times a week. I'm addicted to the gym so I need that.
But I felt SO MUCH better when I was just smoking weed daily after school/work than I did taking kratom or just being sober. Nothing beats a nice hit after a long day of working. Not beer, not kratom. I used kratom daily for 2 years so I feel like I'm pretty experienced with it. Weed is loads better for my mind and body than kratom. That's just me though.
But I felt SO MUCH better when I was just smoking weed daily after school/work than I did taking kratom or just being sober. Nothing beats a nice hit after a long day of working. Not beer, not kratom. I used kratom daily for 2 years so I feel like I'm pretty experienced with it. Weed is loads better for my mind and body than kratom. That's just me though.
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whiteroom67
Bluelighter
Yeah you know I used Kratom all day today, I binged ALLLL day... and now I feel so out of it lol... I was about 2 weeks clean. But starting tomorrow I'm stopping again. Kratom felt right while I was doing it a lot not long ago getting off of painkillers... but now it feels funkier. Weed unfortunately makes me too paranoid, anxious, spaced out and insecure. I just recently started the gym again though, and it feels GREAT. I mean, my lifts are down by a lot (I had surgery a few months ago so I had to stop), but it just feels so good again getting back into it. The days I do it I feel like the desire to do Kratom is so much less... I just wish I could summon the motivation to do it in the morning before work so it would help my mood all throughout the work day, instead of feeling crappy all throughout the workday and having to wait until after work, but no way can I get up that early lol.
《Plasticity》
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Meh I think it was the emphasis on the word "will" that set the tone of your post but context is near impossible when it comes to a post on a message board. And ughh, don't even get ne started on the whole "just as addicitve as a cup of coffee".... maybe mentally but physically kratom is is without a doubt more addictive, that I will admit but that's just the nature of the game when toying with mu agonists.
However, I find kratom way more medicinal and practical than any opiate/opioid. You can only get so high before getting sick, strong extracts are too expensive to use every day, the withdrawals last about a week with no PAWS whatsoever (for me), it's legal, it's dirt cheap, it's totally functional, provides a more positive moodlift... you get the point. The best thing to do is weigh out the potential benefits to the potential downsides, if you wan zero chance of addiction don't take kratom. Basically all I'm trying to say is that this is one of those "you never know till you try it" kind of things. You can spend a year reading up on kratom and hype yourself but there's always that chance that you won't even like the stuff.
@Berdo - kinda, it feels more like having the flu but with additional RLS and for some even RAS (is restless arm syndrome even a medical term?). Anyways yeah in the end it's just your downregulated receptors going haywire attempting to achieve homeostasis. By day 5 I would call myself just about withdrawal free with the peak at day 2 and improvement by the third. It's intensity is highly dependant with the individual but what I realized is that kratom withdrawal was extremely mental for me. By mental I mean that if I sat on my ass whining all day the withdrawals sucked but if I got up and moved around, kelt myself buisy, and took the right meds I'm able to work my 10 hour shifts easily.
My most recent kick was BEYOND easy, I mean I felt 95% normal the whole time with a combination of gabapentin, baclofen, and occasionally etizolam....all of which can be legally purchased over the internet (in the US at least). Also, kratom seems to leave my stomach in tact besides maybe a bit of appetite loss but as far as those wretched gut cramps, pain, nausea, vomiting, and diahrea I got none, YMMV. My use was 3x 9-10g doses for ~4 years though of course I didn't start out at that dose and neither should anyone unless you plan on getting sick as hell.
Edit: you can add side of anxiety to that flu as well, and depression I guess. It never made me depressed but for many it does so if an MDMA comedown is tough shit for you maybe you should avoid.
However, I find kratom way more medicinal and practical than any opiate/opioid. You can only get so high before getting sick, strong extracts are too expensive to use every day, the withdrawals last about a week with no PAWS whatsoever (for me), it's legal, it's dirt cheap, it's totally functional, provides a more positive moodlift... you get the point. The best thing to do is weigh out the potential benefits to the potential downsides, if you wan zero chance of addiction don't take kratom. Basically all I'm trying to say is that this is one of those "you never know till you try it" kind of things. You can spend a year reading up on kratom and hype yourself but there's always that chance that you won't even like the stuff.
@Berdo - kinda, it feels more like having the flu but with additional RLS and for some even RAS (is restless arm syndrome even a medical term?). Anyways yeah in the end it's just your downregulated receptors going haywire attempting to achieve homeostasis. By day 5 I would call myself just about withdrawal free with the peak at day 2 and improvement by the third. It's intensity is highly dependant with the individual but what I realized is that kratom withdrawal was extremely mental for me. By mental I mean that if I sat on my ass whining all day the withdrawals sucked but if I got up and moved around, kelt myself buisy, and took the right meds I'm able to work my 10 hour shifts easily.
My most recent kick was BEYOND easy, I mean I felt 95% normal the whole time with a combination of gabapentin, baclofen, and occasionally etizolam....all of which can be legally purchased over the internet (in the US at least). Also, kratom seems to leave my stomach in tact besides maybe a bit of appetite loss but as far as those wretched gut cramps, pain, nausea, vomiting, and diahrea I got none, YMMV. My use was 3x 9-10g doses for ~4 years though of course I didn't start out at that dose and neither should anyone unless you plan on getting sick as hell.
Edit: you can add side of anxiety to that flu as well, and depression I guess. It never made me depressed but for many it does so if an MDMA comedown is tough shit for you maybe you should avoid.
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