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The Big & Dandy Oral DMT thread (Ayahuasca/Pharmahuasca)

I understand your point Transform. Those people who go to a Ayahuasca center in South America for a 1 week retreat are going through about 5 sessions within that week. Not every session is a great breakthrough. It took me 4 sessions until I had a great breakthrough. Now I have 28 years of meditation experience and I am a emotional release therapist. This time I want to transform within a inner shamanic school into an Ayahuascuero. Or simply speaking I want to become a shaman. Therefor I have to continue the sessions but the distances are getting bigger. First every day then every second day, now every third day and so on. I have heard of shamans taking Aya almost every day for years without a problem. But for me I gues I ll end up doing it once a month or so.
So I do not recommend to others to do it as much as I do it. This is just my thing.
 
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^Yeah I've known shamans who used it every day or almost every day (say 4 days on, 3 days off for example) for extended periods of time, they seem fine to me. It's also very common for people going to centres or retreats etc to attend ceremonies every day or most days for a week or more. Not recommended for everyone, just like ayahuasca in general is not recommended for everyone :)

Different patterns of use would be beneficial for different people. Sometimes it can be hard to integrate if you use it frequently and then just go straight back to your regular life, but sometimes it can be hard integrating it if you just do it once and then stop for a long time. Or you might not get much from one experience - aya is so unpredictable and I've seen people who said they felt nothing the first night and then had a strong life-changing experience the third night.

Ayahuascero, I am really surprised you are encouraging people to use it on their own their first time without the guidance of someone experienced. If you're hoping to become a shaman, I have never met a shaman who thought it was a good idea for people to do it totally unsupervised, especially when new to it.
 
I myself tried Ayahuasca first time by my own, after preparing myself very thoroughly. And it went well. I did suggest to do thorough research, but I forgot to mention to have at least a sitter who has an understanding, what I usually highly recommend. Maybe because he was planing to do it with his cousin. But still better to have a sober sitter. If they have the chance to do it in a ritual the better. However, they didn't ask for it, just like those who are in sober living thread not asking for Ayahuasca.
 
I say if you are experienced with mushromms then ayahuasca is no problem, really its all about dosage...

Just make a huge brew and start low.


Good luck with your training ayahuascero! i wish i had the balls to drink so much aya, i can do it one time per week for some periods but even that is hard on the ego =/
 
Thanks Spacemonkey. I will post some of my experiences from time to time.;)
Thanks Swimmingdancer for your advice. You are right, first I shoud recommend an Ayahuasca center. If they still want to do it on there own I should make sure that they are well prepared in every way. ;)
I hope its not to late for you Developingcolor. If you have the chance to go to a Ayahuasca center or church, that would be the best choice. If you still want to do it on your own then both of you be better very very well prepared. read and view as much as possible about Ayahuasca and about peoples experience.
Then one of you should do it first and the other one should stay sober as a sitter. somebody who understands what you are about to do, just to help you out with little things like bringing you to the toilet if you are dizzy etc. However, he or she should not interfere with your process or even panic. The sitter should encourage you to go through the darkness no matter how much you are scared of. Know that ,there will be no danger at any time, no matter what happened.
Just make sure you have a quiet, safe setting where nothing can disturb you for the next 5 to 8 hours.
Further, if you have only 10 g mimosa available, chances are that it might not be enough and it would be wasted if you brew it. On average people use 10g if they brew it properly. As a first timer chances are that you don't do it the right way, just like in my case, I wasted 20 g of brew for no effect, but purging.
If you put the powder in caps, you get 100 % of that stuff. you will need only about 2g for each trip so you would have plenty left for your next sessions. remember it can take a few sessions until you get a break through.
And about the tannins I found out they are not so bad since they are in fruits as well. here is some info I found:
Tannins are naturally occurring plant polyphenols. Their main characteristic is that they bind and precipitate proteins. They can have a large influence on the nutritive value of many foods eaten by humans and feedstuff eaten by animals. Tannins are common in fruits (grapes, persimmon, blueberry, etc.), in tea, in chocolate, in legume forages (trefoil, etc.), in legume trees (Acacia spp., Sesbania spp., etc.), in grasses (sorghum, corn, etc.).
Now let me know if you have any background in Psychedelics. Are you on any medication recently? Did you have a traumatic experience recently? Anything else you could think of?
 
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Ayahuascero said:
Further, if you have only 10 g mimosa available, chances are that it might not be enough and it would be wasted if you brew it. On average people use 10g if they brew it properly. As a first timer chances are that you don't do it the right way, just like in my case, I wasted 20 g of brew for no effect, but purging.
If you put the powder in caps, you get 100 % of that stuff. you will need only about 2g for each trip so you would have plenty left for your next sessions. remember it can take a few sessions until you get a break through.
And about the tannins I found out they are not so bad since they are in fruits as well. here is some info I found:
Tannins are naturally occurring plant polyphenols. Their main characteristic is that they bind and precipitate proteins. They can have a large influence on the nutritive value of many foods eaten by humans and feedstuff eaten by animals. Tannins are common in fruits (grapes, persimmon, blueberry, etc.), in tea, in chocolate, in legume forages (trefoil, etc.), in legume trees (Acacia spp., Sesbania spp., etc.), in grasses (sorghum, corn, etc.).
Now let me know if you have any background in Psychedelics. Are you on any medication recently? Did you have a traumatic experience recently? Anything else you could think of?
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I still dont get this doses, 10g of high quality mhrb can contain up to 200mg of dmt, this is a huge dose seriusly!

Either your bark is weak or your brewing tech is not good, or you just need more then most weak maoi etc.

And mimosa bark tannins are def not the same as fruit tannis, please dont eat any bark people dont do this for a reason.
 
What is the minimum amount of Syrian rue I would need to achieve the threshold amount of mono amine oxidase inhibition? And would I still have to fast to do the threshold dose?
 
Anyone else find that DMT freebase burns the mucous lining in the mouth? Or is that just my sensitivity to chemicals? I can smoke it fine but if it gets in my mouth it hurts/burns.
 
Spacemonkey5000 said:
I still dont get this doses, 10g of high quality mhrb can contain up to 200mg of dmt, this is a huge dose seriusly!

Either your bark is weak or your brewing tech is not good, or you just need more then most weak maoi etc.

And mimosa bark tannins are def not the same as fruit tannis, please dont eat any bark people dont do this for a reason.
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Maybe I didn't do the brew good enough, but most people I have heard use on average 10g with brewing and I guess they get out only 30 % or so on DMT. Anyway the safest method as you said, brew a lot and drink only small portions at a time. Whatever is left over one can keep the Aya for next time in the fridge.
Now for the tannins, even you brew it, the tannins are still in the brew as well. However some suggest to get rid of the tannins, you could throw in a egg white while still hot, and then remove the egg white once hard. It will bind the tannins.
I don't eat the bark, only its very fine powder and only 2g of it. However I would very much appreciate a more detailed explanation what is the exact reason, why we should not eat it.

Sonn. It depends on your weight and if you take it in caps powdered? at an weight of 75 kg I use minimum 2g powdered Syrian Rue in 3x 00 Caps. Don't eat anything for the minimum of the last 3 hours, but 6 to 8 hours fasting is much more effective.
 
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developingcolor said:
I thought you had to boil the mimosa and filter it a few times? That's what I was planning on doing. It's a good thing you warned me about not taking all 5g at once. That's what my cousin and I were going to do. I definitely don't want to take too much and have an overly intense experience seeing as this is my first foray into the world of ayahuasca
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Please don't use mimosa for your first ayahuasca experience. :|

Mimosa is not a traditional aya admixture, it's difficult to properly prepare (you NEED to use egg-white filtration or similar methods), it's more harsh on your body and mind than chacruna or chaliponga.

If you DO use mimosa your first time, and have a really nauseating or difficult trip, well, now you know why.
 
Ayahuascero said:
Thanks Swimmingdancer for your advice. You are right, first I shoud recommend an Ayahuasca center. If they still want to do it on there own I should make sure that they are well prepared in every way. ;)
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Sounds good :)

Ayahuascero said:
I hope its not to late for you swimmingdancer. If you have the chance to go to a Ayahuasca center or church, that would be the best choice. If you still want to do it on your own then both of you be better very very well prepared. read and view as much as possible about Ayahuasca and about peoples experience.
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Did you mean to address that to someone other than me? I have already done ayahuasca many times.

Ayahuascero said:
However I would very much appreciate a more detailed explanation what is the exact reason, why we should not eat it.
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It's just hard on the digestive system. I'm not sure whether or not it's primarily due to the tannins (although the popular belief is that it's solely the tannins), but tannins can be hard on the body, there are a number of kinds of tannins, just because tannins are found in other things doesn't mean they have no ill effects. And there are a lot of tannins in mimosa. Tannins have a bitter astringent taste. However, whatever one uses as an MAOI is likely to cause nausea, so it's not just the mimosa.

If you're going to eat it then I think putting powder in capsules is much better than just trying to swallow shredded rootbark (and potentially have to vomit that back up too).

If you don't find it hard on your stomach maybe you have a tougher stomach than some people. I know for me I'll drink some ayahuasca (referring to p. viridis + b. caapi though) and not vomit at all when everyone around me is puking their guts out and making crazy loud purging sounds. Many people actually consider the purge desirable, but that's a whole other topic.

Just to clarify, are you talking about the rootbark or the stem bark? People just keep saying "mimosa bark"; the rootbark has more DMT and I have on occasion heard of people getting the stem bark or whole plant instead of the rootbark.

Regardless, mimosa rootbark itself can vary widely in DMT content from different plants/batches, and different methods of consuming or extracting it will affect that as well. So like you said, starting low is the best idea.
 
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Sorry I meant Developingcolor, so I edited the original.
Thanks for the info about tannins etc.
I take very fine powdered Mimosa root bark. I did good for 10 sessions within 20 days, but after the 11th session I vomit the next morning and had nausea and headache for 4 days.
I guess that was to much in to short time. So I better take a break for a few weeks, and then once a week or so again.
I am studying DMT extraction from Mimosa now, as a Pharmahuasca alternative.
 
Ayahuascero said:
Sorry I meant Developingcolor, so I edited the original.
Thanks for the info about tannins etc.
I take very fine powdered Mimosa root bark. I did good for 10 sessions within 20 days, but after the 11th session I vomit the next morning and had nausea and headache for 4 days.
I guess that was to much in to short time. So I better take a break for a few weeks, and then once a week or so again.
I am studying DMT extraction from Mimosa now, as a Pharmahuasca alternative.
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Did you only use rue and mimosa or have you dosed with real ayahuasca aswell?

I mean rue + mhrb is a good oral dmt trip but its def not the same as real caapi with dmt or even shrooms.

Its something in that vine except the harmalas, its really a magical plant.

Good luck on your mission.
 
i know there is no definite way to tell a precise dosing, but i seek advice to at least play safe.

for a medium to normal experience how much n,n-DMT (freebase) and Harmine (isolated hcl) is suggested?
and the same for a strong experience.

just that i know in which areas the whole game plays.

thanks
 
Obsidius said:
i know there is no definite way to tell a precise dosing, but i seek advice to at least play safe.

for a medium to normal experience how much n,n-DMT (freebase) and Harmine (isolated hcl) is suggested?
and the same for a strong experience.

just that i know in which areas the whole game plays.

thanks
Click to expand...



Oral dmt doses seems to vary alot between people and even on one person it can vary greatly for different sesions, but i seem to be somewhat avergae in the dosing compared to the info ive read.

So for me 150mg of pure harmaline is usually enough, but i dont get much side effects from harmalas so i usually take around 300mg of crude rue extract which is prob around 250mg of mixed harmalas.

For the dmt i never dose lower then 50mg(fb) which gives me a good medium experience, at this dose its almost a recriational trip for me, like a nice dose of shrooms.

If i push it over 80mg i will start to fall into the visions, and anything over 120-150 will give me breakthrough kind of experience.

This dosing is for pharmahuasca with extracted alkaloids, if i use aya or mimosa tea the doses are harder to pinpoint for some reason.

Usually when i drink aya i just cook up like 500g of caapi with only water and then mix 100mg dmt per 50g of caapi.
 
SONN said:
What is the minimum amount of Syrian rue I would need to achieve the threshold amount of mono amine oxidase inhibition? And would I still have to fast to do the threshold dose?
Click to expand...
I take 2 g minimum on Syrian rue in capsules, maximum 3g. If you brew it I guess you will need more. You shuld not eat for a minimum of 3 hours but 6 to 8 hours would make it more affective.
 
For everyone asking about dosages, it's so incredibly variable from person to person that you just have to be patient, and play around with dosages until you find your sweet spot.
 
...yay! started my experiments with oral DMT yesterday! :)
250mg of harmala extract (oral; I usually smoke it) and @ t+45 65mg of freebase DMT dissolved in coke. I wanted to start low and see if there are negative reactions.
@t+30 a plateau was reached but the effects were very mild. +/++. sadly GI-discomfort was present. diarrhea. meh. not bad, not uncomfoartable, but this is a side effect I don't have if I smoke the DMT. friend who was with me had a similar reactions ("general pressure in stomach").
of course we went on smoking an unknown amount of DMT during the next 5-6h. I still have no doubt that this is pretty much the best drug experience you can have...hands down.
the rite of smoking the perfect amount of DMT, experiencing the beauty of this micro-trip, then 15-20min later being sober enough to integrate, talk about matters of life, relationships etc, then prepare the next dose - it's just perfect. after a few hours you get very used to DMT. I later proceeded cooking dinner on +++-levels of DMT. it's just so natural... XD
 
Does anyone have experience with using acacia confusa in their brews? I'm somewhat confused, a very reputable vendor claims it to be stronger than mimosa but suggests 15 grams for a strong trip. I've no personal exprience but would think 15 grams of MRB would be way too much for a single session.

They also go on to say that root bark is really only a "mimosa thing" and does not apply to A.C. Is this true? I have taiwanese inner trunk bark and the (supposedly) higher quality hawaiian trunk bark. What would be a good dose for a strong yet responsible trip?
 
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