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The Big & Dandy Oral DMT thread (Ayahuasca/Pharmahuasca)

I'm really interested in trying ayahuasca as I love psychedelics. However when reading about it there seems to be a lot on people looking to get something out of the experience, I'm only really looking to try it from curiosity. Is this recommended? Would it be better to leave until a later period in life and try then? Is there as much recreational value in this as other psychedelics?

Smoking DMT is quite overwhelming I find too. I vaporize with a good technique. I sometimes really enjoy it but find that there is always that initial overwhelming feeling in the beginning at least - but it is one of the most potent psychedelics out there so it's to be expected.
 
xTalK said:
I'm really interested in trying ayahuasca as I love psychedelics. However when reading about it there seems to be a lot on people looking to get something out of the experience, I'm only really looking to try it from curiosity. Is this recommended? Would it be better to leave until a later period in life and try then? Is there as much recreational value in this as other psychedelics?

Smoking DMT is quite overwhelming I find too. I vaporize with a good technique. I sometimes really enjoy it but find that there is always that initial overwhelming feeling in the beginning at least - but it is one of the most potent psychedelics out there so it's to be expected.
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Personally I do not find ayahuasca recreational. It is challenging work, more like therapy. Not to say that it's always unpleasant, there are times of great beauty and joy too, but also times of confronting your greatest fears, feeling very physically ill, getting stuck in mental loops and having to learn how to untangle yourself, etc. BUT it also affects different people very differently and even the same person will have a different experience every time. Since you asked "Would it be better to leave until a later period in life and try then?" may I ask how old are you? And how much experience do you have with other psychedelics? The first psychedelics I tried back when I was a teenager were LSD and mushrooms and I definitely found them gentler, more "recreational" or "fun" and more forgiving that ayahuasca. I am glad ayahuasca was not the first psychedelic I tried. But who knows, maybe the experience would have actually been easier for me as a teenager. It's so hard to say how it will affect you as an individual. Personally I don't think there is anything inherently wrong about using it just out of curiosity, but it really needs to be respected and not just used casually without proper research and precautions.

If you've already tried DMT that puts you in a somewhat better position to decide whether ayahuasca might be a good idea for you at least. But think about the fact that smoked DMT lasts like 5-20 min whereas ayahuasca lasts around 4-14 hours. Plus it can feel like a thousand years if your perception of time gets really distorted.
 
Ok here is my conclusion in regards to taking rue and mimosa powder in capsules.
Obviously tannings are present in an ayahuasca brew unless you take it out with egg whites. Which in turn causes purging most of the time. The usual mimosa part of a brew is 5 to 10g per dose. Now I take only one third, 2 to 3g of mimosa in capsules which should contain only about one third of the tannins verses the aya brew. This explains that I purge only 1 out of 3 to 5 sessions. Therefor taking said doses in capsules seems to be easier on the stomach then the brew. My 2 friends here have a similar experience. And none of us has a very strong stomach.

One more thing in regards to hard trips for first timers. None of us 3 first timers here had a really bad or to challenging experience.
It is probably because of the lower and more exact dosage then the brew. Sometimes the dosage is to low to get visuals, but mostly it just works out fine and sometimes we even get a breakthrough.
Ah, and none of us had any psychedelic experience prior to Ayahuasca.
 
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Maybe it's redundant and it has possibly been mentioned before, but why is this thread called the 'Oral DMT thread'? Ayahuasca is not the same as oral DMT - as some brews contain much more B. caapi than whatever DMT-containing plant, so you might as well call it the 'Oral Beta-Carboline Thread' for that matter. Simply mentioning ayahuasca and pharmacuasca is descriptive enough, I think.

Anyway, not of huge importance, but it's struck me as incorrect before.
 
Hi Swimmingdancer, thanks for sharing some of your Aya experiences. May I ask you how many times and what frequency you use Aya? Do you use brew only? What are the ingredient and how much of it? You do it by your own or in a group?

I am noticing that after my body gets used to it I have to increase the dose, so instead of taking more powdered caps, I make extractions and put them in caps. The onset of Pharmahuasca is with 30 min much faster but I still have to purge sometimes within 1 hour, which takes out a good part of the DMT and the effect decreases.
However my stomach told me to take the dose in 3 steps maybe 20 min apart so it won't be overwhelmed with work.
 
Ayahuascero said:
Hi Swimmingdancer, thanks for sharing some of your Aya experiences. May I ask you how many times and what frequency you use Aya? Do you use brew only? What are the ingredient and how much of it? You do it by your own or in a group?

I am noticing that after my body gets used to it I have to increase the dose, so instead of taking more powdered caps, I make extractions and put them in caps. The onset of Pharmahuasca is with 30 min much faster but I still have to purge sometimes within 1 hour, which takes out a good part of the DMT and the effect decreases.
However my stomach told me to take the dose in 3 steps maybe 20 min apart so it won't be overwhelmed with work.
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I can't be of much help because I almost always take the traditional Peruvian brew of b. caapi + p. viridis made by a "professional" ;). Occasionally some additional plants might be put in there as well. Always a group setting, I have never done it alone. I would say maybe 30 times or somewhere around there.
 
Ok thanks Swimmingdancer.
Doesn't the noise from other participants destruct your process?
I like to be alone in my room and avoid any disturbances.
I have ordered some caapi and will try it some time with mimosa extraction to see the difference.
 
...does anyone know a reliable recipe for extracting syrian rue?
I've extracted it years ago via acetic acid+NaCl and it worked well, I just don't find my notes anymore... :/
 
I have 4 ounces of both b. caapi and p. viridis on the way... Would 40 grams of each do the trick? Thanks for the advise. Also, how much water should I add and how long should I boil it?
 
Ayahuasca question about mixing types of ingredients

Hi,

I am planning on having ayahuasca for the first time with 2 other friends in a month or sos time.

I got the ingredients from a couple of different sources and I have what I think will be enough for 3 people.

- 100g psychotria viridis dry leaves
- 20g Syrian rue made into extract (have more on hand)
- 15g of a mix of ground: cielo caapi, un-named acai, and syrian rue

The last bag was sold to me as an ayahuasca package enough for one person. I'm waiting to hear from the supplier what the ratio of ingredients is.

Because we all want to have the same kind and intensity of experience it would be better to mix all together. The psychotria and powder mix would be steeped in simmering water for 40 minutes and the resulting liquid strained and reduced.

I was thinking we could each have 7.3g worth of syrian rue extract 40 minutes before drinking this liquid.

I can get more of any of the ingredients above but it would take extra time and money.

Would there be any problems with this plan?
 
Actually looking again the rue dose seems too high. Possibly 2.5g worth of extract would be enough for each person?
 
How strong is the the rue extract?
The recommended dose for rue is 3 g powdered seed, so adjust from there, 300mg for 10x, ect.
It is good to do more than necessary for redosing and to be sure tha MAO is I' d.

Go heavy on the harmalas and, if possible, split the dmt containing bit into 2 parts each for redosing.

More viridis would be preferable , but I have heard that some ayahuascuero would only use like 10-20 leaves per person (lotsa b-caapi).

Have a wonderful experience. :)
 
I will be making the rue extract I would just take 9g of rue and then split the extract into 3.

I don't know how much is in the pre-mixed powder and I get the impression that the guy won't tell me. Some of the entheo suppliers in Aus tend to be like that for some reason.. I'm tempted to grab another 50 or 100 g of viridis and then just keep the left over

Im organising the other parts of the trip as well like white sage smudge stick. I probably wont do it again any time soon so I want to try to get as much out of it as possible.
 
I recommend to brew double the amount of rue, (18g or more) , and split it into 6 parts, so you can keep the mao inhibited for longer. Consume 2nd part around 3 or 4 hours after the 1st part.
Have a great time. :)
 
elucidator said:
I recommend to brew double the amount of rue, (18g or more) , and split it into 6 parts, so you can keep the mao inhibited for longer. Consume 2nd part around 3 or 4 hours after the 1st part.
Have a great time. :)
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I'm sure I will, thanks for the advice
 
/So I found out the mix in the pre-made dry ayahuasca mix. Its 50% cielo ayahuasca (7.5g), 25% acacia bark (3.25g), 25% syrian rue (3.25g).

Is it just me or does this seem like a rather low dose of DMT in this mixture?

Anyway I got a tonne of syrian rue and another 100g of psychotria so I won't have to use this mix if I dont want to.
 
Whoaaaa, that is interesting!

"Ayahuasca caused flattening and stretching of vascular smooth muscle cells"

Wait, so is that good or bad??? That sounds kind of good, like expanding and relaxing of the heart muscles.
 
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