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The Big & Dandy Oral DMT thread (Ayahuasca/Pharmahuasca)

PippUK said:
There are millions of variables that come into play in terms of setting. For example, if your mindset is filled with thoughts about authenticity and you are imbibing Ayahuasca with traditional ingredients and ritual, then these factors will shape the way that you interpret the material. Or, if you have just followed a synthetic MAOI with some nice synthed spice, and you have got the latest Flying Lotus LP on the headphones, the you have a wholly different slant.
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Very true. That's one of the reasons I enjoy LSD so much -- the fact that the experience is enabled by an advanced chemical technology puts the whole thing in a rather interesting perspective.

Ismene said:
Yes but remember just because a "traditional curanda" says it doesn't mean it's true. There's a kind of reverse racism often involved in discussion ayahuasca - that a bloke in the jungle must know more about it than a white man in a city. That's not always true. And if you've ever met a curanda you'll know they can be the nastiest, most unpleasant money-grabbing scum you'll ever meet. Don't always take someones word as divine truth just because he has a bone through his fucking nose. He's just a human being like you and me.
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I think the reason people -- including myself to some extent -- tend to respect the methodology of the traditional aya drinkers, is that it's been passed down and fine-tuned from generation to generation, and compiled from more experience than any one city-slicker can have in a lifetime.

However, I'll acknowledge that there are complications to this idea. Firstly, traditional ayahuasceros didn't have access to things like synthetic moclobemide, and if they did they very well might have preferred it vastly to Caapi. Also, for those with access to online forums, the wealth of information compiled and shared by a single generation of forum members may exceed the information compiled by hundreds of generations of a tiny south american tribe.

I've always thought DMT was so powerful that the MAOI was of minor importance. DMT to me is the most divine thing I've ever experienced. I don't get anything remotely similar out of caapi or rue. Don't you find the same thing?
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Honestly, I haven't had enough experience with Caapi alone to be able to answer the question.

I know that Caapi does some remarkable things in combination with DMT that I cannot achieve with DMT alone. The visuals were the first such effect I noticed. I can smoke a totally obliterating dose of pure DMT, and the visuals don't even come close to the vibrant neon lucid visuals of a couple small tokes of Caapi changa.
 
Can I consume the Serian rue and the Mimosa bark at the same time, I prefer to do this, but I read about alot of people taking the rue first.

Dumb question I know, but just want to make sure it's as effective.
 
TheAppleCore said:
I think the reason people -- including myself to some extent -- tend to respect the methodology of the traditional aya drinkers, is that it's been passed down and fine-tuned from generation to generation, and compiled from more experience than any one city-slicker can have in a lifetime.
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I'm not sure that holds true, everyones response to ayahuasca is related to their own personality. Just because a thousand people have taken it and got one effect doesn't mean I'll get the same effect. I often read the Erowid trip reports about LSD or mushrooms and think to myself "Were these people even taking the same drug as me?"

Psychedelic drugs amplify aspects of your own personality. There is this whole other issue with ayahuasca about "It makes you see the jaguar..". Now I've never seen a jaguar on ayahuasca. But if I was a credulous native in the jungle with a big frightening witchdoctor telling me "You will see the jaguar..", then I think I probably might. Or even if I didn't see the jaguar or the boa constrictor I'd tell him I had seen it just so he'd like me.

It's like someone said about tripping with Leary at Millbrook in the mid-60's "Everyone would say "Did you see the white light?" I didn't know if I had or I hadn't but I used to say Yes just so I could be with in with the in crowd"

The visuals were the first such effect I noticed. I can smoke a totally obliterating dose of pure DMT, and the visuals don't even come close to the vibrant neon lucid visuals of a couple small tokes of Caapi changa

Do you take much DMT orally? Be interesting to see how you found the caapi affected the trip compared to moclobemide. I've pretty much always taken DMT orally with moclobemide. The times I've tried using caapi have given me such horrendous nausea that it's totally destroyed the experience.
 
hydrochron said:
Can I consume the Serian rue and the Mimosa bark at the same time, I prefer to do this, but I read about alot of people taking the rue first.
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Best off taking the MAOI first and giving it 30-45 minutes to kick in. Then take the mimosa. It's going to a pretty revolting tasting brew so good luck! :)

BTW, I think it would work if you took them both at the same time but I guess some of the DMT could get destroyed before the MAOI kicked in.
 
TheAppleCore said:
I think the reason people -- including myself to some extent -- tend to respect the methodology of the traditional aya drinkers, is that it's been passed down and fine-tuned from generation to generation, and compiled from more experience than any one city-slicker can have in a lifetime.
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One other problem with this idea is that history is largely a function of literacy. Unless someone writes it down at the time then you arn't dealing in accurate history, you end up dealing in myth. What we have now isn't an accurate history of ayahuasca use - it's the chinese whispers version.
 
Ismene said:
Do you take much DMT orally? Be interesting to see how you found the caapi affected the trip compared to moclobemide. I've pretty much always taken DMT orally with moclobemide. The times I've tried using caapi have given me such horrendous nausea that it's totally destroyed the experience.
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Only taken oral DMT once, with Caapi, very recently. I'd love to try it moclobemide. I have full intentions to experiment more with oral DMT in the near future, and I will post results.

From what I've read, the two best ways to avoid Caapi nausea are:

1) Eggwhite filtration on Caapi brews. Very simple - first make sure the (unreduced) brew is slightly acidic, then throw some beaten egg whites in there, boil the water to cook the eggs, then filter it through a cloth. I did this on my one and only ayahuasca brew, and only had very slight nausea.

2) The purge. Self-explanatory. :D
 
TheAppleCore said:
1) Eggwhite filtration on Caapi brews. Very simple - first make sure the (unreduced) brew is slightly acidic, then throw some beaten egg whites in there, boil the water to cook the eggs, then filter it through a cloth. I did this on my one and only ayahuasca brew, and only had very slight nausea.

2) The purge. Self-explanatory. :D
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I always found it's the DMT that causes the nausea tho Apple. Even with moclobemide which has zero nausea, 20 minutes after the DMT hits you often feel like hurling your guts up.

I even tried anal DMT once. Took the moclobemide, squirted a fair bit of DMT up the arse and within 2 minutes I was at the peak of the strongest DMT trip I've ever had in my life. Even vomited during that so there's definately something about the way DMT hits you in the presence of an MAOI that causes nausea.
 
Is there a good way to minimze the nausea associated the the Rue seeds?
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extraction

you need salt, water, a grinder and a fridge. heater is a good plus
look for details on erowid
 
Ismene said:
I always found it's the DMT that causes the nausea tho Apple. Even with moclobemide which has zero nausea, 20 minutes after the DMT hits you often feel like hurling your guts up.
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I read somewhere that DMT as a salt such as fumarate is less nauseous then in the freebase form. Is this true?
 
TearItDown said:
Almost all psychedelics induce some sort of nausea. Usually the only solution is to take less of a dose.
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But the question is > is the fumarate salt less nauseous than the freebase? If the fumarate allows you to consume more DMT with less nausea than the freebase then this should be considered in the oral DMT thread.
 
Never tried the Fumarate salt but I have tried the phosphate salt which is also alleged to cause less nausea. It may cause a little less nausea sometimes, but you still usually hurl your guts 15-20 feet across the room.
 
i have one gram of 10 x banesteriopsis caapi extract, and around 750 mg dmt.

i want to start at 50-75 mg dmt, but how much of the maoi should i take?
Is it safe to combine with ketamine?
 
Does using moclobemide require any dietary restrictions before or after?

How long a gap do you need to leave before ingesting dopaminergic or serotinergic drugs after ingestion? Wikipedia says it's half life is 1-2 hours, but "Despite its short half-life the pharmacodynamic action of a single dose persists for approximately 16 hours"

Also I'm curious Ismene - do you detect any effects from the moclobemide itself? Wiki makes it sound rather nice!
 
It depends how exotic your diet is, tyramine is the thing to avoid so some bizarre kinds of cheese are best avoided. I've never followed any special diet but I'm a fairly plain eater. If your dinner is likely to be stewed banana, decomposed chicken liver and fava beans washed down with a nice chianti then watch out.

I usually leave it 30-45 minutes after dropping the moclo to taking the DMT or the mushrooms. You do notice an effect from moclo alone but it's not what I'd call recreational. It might have a slight anti-depressant effect, but that might just be down to the placebomine cos I've read it's an anti-depressant.

You planning on dipping your toe in the oral DMT specialspackl? Bit of a grim development in the UK regarding mimosa - the police have been seizing all the mimosa they can find. I'd cut their hands off and sew them deep up their arse.
 
Yeah - I replied to your post over in EDD about the UK situation, there was a great talk about the possible legal challenges at a conference that I missed. Hoping to get the video for it soon though...

I guess better to be safe or sorry with diet.

badjaja asked if ketamine was contra-indicated - there's a couple of reports of people taking it together with irreversible MAOIs with no undue effects.
 
Something I always like to mention to anyone interested in oral DMT is that moclo and mushrooms is just like oral DMT only without the nausea and a 2-3 hour longer peak. I prefer mushrooms and moclo to oral DMT these days simply because of the nausea you get with DMT.
 
Sorry to hear that the UK police are wasting their resources persecuting a small group of enthusiasts,while the 'kids' are being fed dodgy pellets etc, which seem to pose a far greater risk to physical/psychological health.
Once again UK drug policy is being decided by people without a rational understanding of the issues and facts, and with skewed motives.
 
^ Yeah, it's pretty much unimaginably ridiculous. The idea of mimosa hostilis being forcibly withheld from the public makes my blood boil... a demonstration of astounding ignorance.
 
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