Nootropics The Big & Dandy Nootropics Thread (Stack 2)

[Tranced]

When I took phenibut I took either 2, or 3 grams. I can't remember but I have a hunch it was two.

This was definitely too much. It just made me incredibly horny, and I was alone in my house.

However, I felt that the lack of social inhibition and desire to get with the ladies could be quite beneficial.

However, this dose was quite incapacitating as I had a powerful opiate-esque buzz ( I hate that buzz) and I was really fucked.

I've tried 400mg and absolutely nothing happened, so that dose is obviously too low. 1-2 grams is too high.

Can anybody speculate or recccomend a functional dose for this drug? It was far from nootropic at the dose I tried, but I could see the potential.

Also, how long does it take to kick in again?

 

[Peacephrog1972]

Seems for me it takes at least 2 hours to kick in
It really becomes to much for me past 2 grams....that may actually be to much,..I need to use scales with this....too much just makes me extremely tired

 

[Xorkoth]

Yeah if I have no tolerance exactly 1.5 grams is perfect for me. If I take it every other day my tolerance slowly builds, and I go to 2 grams slowly. Too much is unpleasant and too little is nothing. And yeah it makes you really horny which is cool in my book. Properly dosed phenibut is one of my favorite things, pretty much a guaranteed good day. For me the full euphoric state takes a good 4 hours to kick in... I feel a little subtle relaxation at an hour, and at 2 hours I feel something change, and it develops over the next 2+ hours. When it's fully developed, unless I've had too much, it becomes energizing but not in a stimulant sort of way. If I have too much, I become very sleepy and a bit sloppy with a strange sort of internal burning sensation and sore legs and overly tender skin. On any effective dose of phenibut, my skin exudes a lot of heat... my girlfriend knows when I've taken it because I feel hotter. I don't actually feel hotter internally at a proper dose but I can tell my skin is radiating more heat than usual.

 

[headfuck123]

On the topic of Phenibut, what are peoples opinions on using it as a crutch to come off kratom? Maybe dose phenibut at 1.5g day one, 1g day 2 then nothing after that? Also is it likely to mess with benzo tolerance much as im currently tapering off diazepam and wouldnt want to raise my tolerance.

 

[Solipsis]

For me aniracetam is considerably more effective than piracetam, pramiracetam also a bit but I feel a little 'off' on it so effect is not great. Sunifiram is indeed more pronounced than any of the racetams (its a raceram), and feels stimulating like oxiracetam also.
However sunifiram does not seem safe to use for most days on end like racetams appear to be - read about nasty side-effects that pop up when you try that so it's best saved for particular occasions when you can use a little extra.

Hydergine sure does sound nice, but wasn't the problem that it is a 5-HT2B agonist? Which other lysergamides also are, but not a problem for occasional use, which tripping normally is - however if you use 2B agonists daily as supplement it can mean trouble for the heart... Not certain about the affinity and efficacy, but it might mean daily superlow LSD use is not smart either - but it would really depend on the dosage and therapeutic index, as it always does with toxicity.

 

[Xorkoth]

On the topic of Phenibut, what are peoples opinions on using it as a crutch to come off kratom? Maybe dose phenibut at 1.5g day one, 1g day 2 then nothing after that? Also is it likely to mess with benzo tolerance much as im currently tapering off diazepam and wouldnt want to raise my tolerance.

Phenibut works quite well to ease opiate withdrawal. I'd just use it daily until the acute withdrawals are done, 4-7 days won't cause dependence. Just make sure you stop after that.

Also I don't believe phenibut messes with benzo tolerance, they have a different thing going on from each other.

 

[InterestingFACT]

Phenibut works quite well to ease opiate withdrawal. I'd just use it daily until the acute withdrawals are done, 4-7 days won't cause dependence. Just make sure you stop after that.

Also I don't believe phenibut messes with benzo tolerance, they have a different thing going on from each other.

4-7 days wont cause a terrible dependency, but the rebound anxiety even after that short amount of time might be worse than the kratom withdrawals themselves.

I realize that lyrica and pregabalin are common adjuncts to opiate withdrawal, but given that phenibut has a more rapidly apparent and more severe withdrawal syndrome than those two, and that kratom has a milder withdrawal syndrome than pretty much any other opioid, this seems like an example of pharmaceutical overkill. Yes, it will help, and yes probably nothing bad will happen, but if there's any risk of substituting one habit with the other, the kratom habit is ultimately the better one to have.

Just my opinion. And of course I don't mean to diminish the severity of a possible kratom addiction. It's just that the physical dependency on kratom is likely far weaker than the physical dependency that you risk with phenibut. Especially since he's already trying to taper diazepam.

@headfuck123: any particular reason you feel the need to use a drug for coming off kratom? Are you on an enhanced extract?

Phenibut would effectively alleviate benzodiazepine withdrawal, but trust me when I say that you'd rather be dependent on benzos. Phenibut has the most horrifying withdrawal syndrome of any drug I know. It shouldn't directly affect GABA-A at the benzodiazepine site, so there should be minimal interference with your taper.... as long as you don't stay on it too long.

Its action at voltage gated calcium channels will however modulate GABAA--thus why it can substitute for a benzodiazepine. I would speculate that it would interfere with a taper to about the same degree as alcohol. It might set you back psychologically--and if you get rebound anxiety from it this might make you desire to increase your benzodiazepine dose to compensate--but it shouldn't physiologically set you back so long as you can stick to your guns.

 

[Bigazznugz]

Ok there are so many different nootropic drugs out ATM i wouldn't know where to start. I smoke alot of weed and my short term memory is pretty fucked.
But what i really want to know is Piracetam good for memory and most importantly does it increase the effects of all of these drugs? (cannabis,lsd,opiates,benzos)
I dont wanna get some then be absolutely high as a kite off my normal daily dose. That will look very bad at work. Lol

 

[InterestingFACT]

For me aniracetam is considerably more effective than piracetam, pramiracetam also a bit but I feel a little 'off' on it so effect is not great. Sunifiram is indeed more pronounced than any of the racetams (its a raceram), and feels stimulating like oxiracetam also.
However sunifiram does not seem safe to use for most days on end like racetams appear to be - read about nasty side-effects that pop up when you try that so it's best saved for particular occasions when you can use a little extra.

Hydergine sure does sound nice, but wasn't the problem that it is a 5-HT2B agonist? Which other lysergamides also are, but not a problem for occasional use, which tripping normally is - however if you use 2B agonists daily as supplement it can mean trouble for the heart... Not certain about the affinity and efficacy, but it might mean daily superlow LSD use is not smart either - but it would really depend on the dosage and therapeutic index, as it always does with toxicity.

Hydergine use has been statistically correlated with pulmonary fibrosis/valvular disease/other 5ht2b-mediated ailments. So it's not a theoretical concern.

I suspect LSD shares the same risk but its possible saving grace is its difference in potency. There's inevitably less bioaccumulation of LSD in the lungs and heart tissue.

Ok there are so many different nootropic drugs out ATM i wouldn't know where to start. I smoke alot of weed and my short term memory is pretty fucked.
But what i really want to know is Piracetam good for memory and most importantly does it increase the effects of all of these drugs? (cannabis,lsd,opiates,benzos)
I dont wanna get some then be absolutely high as a kite off my normal daily dose. That will look very bad at work. Lol

Piracetam will likely help with your memory. It will also potentiate cannabis and hallucinogens, but will actually reverse the amnesic effects of opiates and benzodiazepines. It may also reduce the analgesic effect of opiates slightly.

Piracetam is a common "starter" nootropic, but is very weak compared to most others. There are quite a few and it does get confusing, but the safest bet if you want to bolster your memory and not spend very much money or risk many side effects, is to look for noopept. It's incredibly cheap per dose--generally even cheaper than piracetam--and meanwhile is far far more potent and also can induce effects which are extremely noticeable within the first day of use. I won't say it's the strongest nootropic out there, but it's definitely the best dollar-value among the safer options available (sunifiram is even stronger and cheaper per dose, but is a much riskier drug with a lot of side effects and a lot of unknowns).

 

[Xorkoth]

4-7 days wont cause a terrible dependency, but the rebound anxiety even after that short amount of time might be worse than the kratom withdrawals themselves.

I realize that lyrica and pregabalin are common adjuncts to opiate withdrawal, but given that phenibut has a more rapidly apparent and more severe withdrawal syndrome than those two, and that kratom has a milder withdrawal syndrome than pretty much any other opioid, this seems like an example of pharmaceutical overkill. Yes, it will help, and yes probably nothing bad will happen, but if there's any risk of substituting one habit with the other, the kratom habit is ultimately the better one to have.

Just my opinion. And of course I don't mean to diminish the severity of a possible kratom addiction. It's just that the physical dependency on kratom is likely far weaker than the physical dependency that you risk with phenibut. Especially since he's already trying to taper diazepam.

@headfuck123: any particular reason you feel the need to use a drug for coming off kratom? Are you on an enhanced extract?

Phenibut would effectively alleviate benzodiazepine withdrawal, but trust me when I say that you'd rather be dependent on benzos. Phenibut has the most horrifying withdrawal syndrome of any drug I know. It shouldn't directly affect GABA-A at the benzodiazepine site, so there should be minimal interference with your taper.... as long as you don't stay on it too long.

Its action at voltage gated calcium channels will however modulate GABAA--thus why it can substitute for a benzodiazepine. I would speculate that it would interfere with a taper to about the same degree as alcohol. It might set you back psychologically--and if you get rebound anxiety from it this might make you desire to increase your benzodiazepine dose to compensate--but it shouldn't physiologically set you back so long as you can stick to your guns.

@Tranced: I've generally kept my phenibut usage far below "typical" doses. 250-500mg to potentiate alcohol, or 500mg up to maybe a gram as a gentle standalone anxiolytic or sleep aid (Nothing beats the well-rested feeling after a phenibut-aided night of sleep).

However, those doses are only possible if you use it infrequently enough that you have no tolerance. Higher doses are more impairing, and also last longer (so a plus for daytime use, if you have tolerance, but a negative for use for sleep). It seems like most people are comfortable starting at around 1 gram, but IMO you should "default" to a dose smaller than what feels "right" with this stuff.

I have read of people getting really rapid and severe withdrawal from phenibut, but for me I have not found this to be the case in about 9 years of steady use. The most addicted to it I ever was was when I was taking it daily at around 3 grams per day for a year, when I first started using it. When I ran out and was forced to stop, I had about a week of sever anxiety and discomfort, but it was better than kratom withdrawal for me. I have used it for 2 weeks every day, give or take, a variety of times during opiate see-sawing and I never noticed anything other than a single day where I felt a little anxious. The withdrawal has never been physical or at all dangerous-feeling for me. On the other hand, for me kratom withdrawal is in some ways worse than any other opiate withdrawal (I was taking it 305 times a day though for reference, a total of 30-60 grams a day), the restlessness is far worse than any other opiate I've been addicted to (which includes heroin, oxy, and poppy tea). Full-body restless legs syndrome, I would scream and punch myself in the legs and arms all night trying to get that fucking feeling to go away for 60 seconds at a time. Phenibut seemed to help primarily with the restlessness, and general anxious/depressed state. I was able to get off kratom a few times (however briefly), through the withdrawals anyway, I should say, using phenibut.

I have heard of a variety of people, however, that seem to get almost alcohol-like withdrawals from phenibut, and they seem to get them quickly. So tread cautiously. I also know people who don't think kratom withdrawal is a big deal.

 

[Ligaturd]

^Thanks for the extensive and detailed reply; it's exactly what I was after. My sex drive has mostly returned, but the nootropic stack also appears to have lost its potency. I just think about sex less, and random/morning erections have become fairly absent. Everything still works perfectly, it's just as if I have to want to do it. It would only bother me if I cause some kind of permanent damage. I'll just have to keep an eye on things. This is the longecity thread. I'd take the sudden end of activity in the thread by the affected posters as an indication of their libido eventually returning. Certainly something to be aware of, though.

Is fasoracetam an "acetam" style piracetam family drug, or something completely different? Only a few days ago I was searching on ways to reduce benzo tolerance, so this interests me greatly. I love the odd benzo, and I don't have a benzo habit, but I do have a fairly ridiculous tolerance to them. My benzo tolerance has roughly doubled from baseline, and I need 4 mg aplrazolam or 40mg diazepam to have any kind of effect. Any consequent dose will roughly double, and it makes a strip of benzos a fairly expensive and fruitless investment, with lots of added amnesia. I'll probably get some, and L-Theanine too, thanks.

Has anybody got experience with using nootropics for fatigue? I'm going to order some ginseng, as it's the fatigue which is really causing my anxiety and depression. Last week I had loads of energy, but somehow my stack has seemingly become suddenly ineffective. I'm going to add some ginseng, as I've heard good reports.

There have been reports of people receiving effects akin to withdrawal from GABAergics when taking Fasoracetam. They seem to be in the minority though. I took it once and experienced heightened anxiety, I am not sure if it is psychosomatic though. Possibly a placebo induced by what I expect a GABA antagonist should act like although one user on reddit reported some seizure activity from it. That was after repeated dosing as well.

It seems logical that there would be some sort of antagonistic activity if it upregulated GABA b in the long run. I bought 5 grams of it so I guess I should resume my trials. Upregulation of GABA b would benefit me as I have suffered from pretty extreme neurotic anxiety which has tainted all areas of life and hindered me in many ways.

I found a combination of Aniracetam and Coluracetam to greatly improve my outlook and lessen my anxiety as well as increasing concentration and my ability to function normally socially. Typically GABAergics have a stupifying effect so the GABAergic activity from Aniracetams metabolite N-Anisoyl-GABA that acted as an anxiolytic while simultaneousl increasing functionality was a welcome effect.

 

[Bigazznugz]

Piracetam is a common "starter" nootropic, but is very weak compared to most others. There are quite a few and it does get confusing, but the safest bet if you want to bolster your memory and not spend very much money or risk many side effects, is to look for noopept. It's incredibly cheap per dose--generally even cheaper than piracetam--and meanwhile is far far more potent and also can induce effects which are extremely noticeable within the first day of use. I won't say it's the strongest nootropic out there, but it's definitely the best dollar-value among the safer options available (sunifiram is even stronger and cheaper per dose, but is a much riskier drug with a lot of side effects and a lot of unknowns).

So it sounds like noopet is the way to go instead of piracetam. I don't like that it might have reverse amnesic effects of opiates. Is noopept the same way with nenzos aand opiates. And does it also start working the day you take it? Sottry about all the questions im very curious.
Many thanks,
Nugx

 

[headfuck123]

Thanks for the responses on using phenibut for kratom withdrawal. I have successfully used this method in the past as have used phenibut vary sparingly over the past couple of years without any probelms as I never dosed more than 2 days in a row and never went over 2g (1.5g being my sweet spot).

I fully understand that phenibut withdrawals could be far far worse than kratom withdrawal however im not feeling up to withdrawing from kratom while also reducing my benzos dose so thought about using phenibut for a couple of days to make it easier. Il taper my kratom use down to 1 or 2g daily then use phenibut for a couple of days to ease the wihtdrawal then focus on tapering my benzo dose which is currently at 8mg of diazepam daily.

I have tried noopept in the past to enhance memory and to sharpen my mind so to speak, as people have mentioned it seemed to work almost instantly. Im wondering if it would help or hinder the benzo withdrawal process though. Im thinking of using it again 3 days on and 2 days off and including natural sources of choline in my diet (eggs?) to avoid the reported headaches. Il report my findings once Ive got myself stable and free from kratom/phenibut. Id appreciate if anyone could shed some light on experiences with noopept during benzo withdrawl, thanks!

 

[waffle-head]

I've been taking 1g phenibut every week before bed for the past three years. Best ant-anxiety, social relaxant ever made! it's the only drug that's cool enough for you to take and increase productivity and creativity without adverse effects or being any way noticeable.
The Perfect Day Drug!!

 

[SnrG]

Bit oldish, but are you saying that this drug was useful for GABA dependence related drugs, like GBL, Benzos Lyrica or Baclofen?

 

[SnrG]

I've been taking 1g phenibut every week before bed for the past three years. Best ant-anxiety, social relaxant ever made! it's the only drug that's cool enough for you to take and increase productivity and creativity without adverse effects or being any way noticeable.
The Perfect Day Drug!!

1g per Week, or g per day?

 

[SnrG]

Ive been addicted to Phenibut, and it's not pleasant. The withdrawals are, or were, for me like full on GBL wds, without the hallucinations. The rest, the fear, the paranoia, insomnia, nigtmares when you do sleep, shivering and goose bumps.....and an overwhelming depression, debilitating. I had a few days of that before I got some baclofen and pregabalin....before that, I tried to stay as drunk as possible. Golden rule with Phenibut, is don't go pass day 2, because your tolerance would be getting bigger... You could easily used phenibut to drop a 1.5g off your valium script. Or even a g. Try the lower dose after two days on phb...then just let things stabilise, and wait for the ripples in the lake to become still. I hope to get off pregab and baclofen, or lower my dose, so am interested in this noopept. never heard of it before

 

[InterestingFACT]

Noopept won't help you get off pregabalin. It might reduce cognitive side effects like memory impairment you might be getting from it though.

Fasoracetam is the drug suspected to be capable of increasing GABA receptor density and reversing tolerance to gabapentinoids.

 

[Novak]

Im looking if anybody knows if there will be any interaction/risk in taking the following nootropic stack with the medication Mirtazapine:

N-Acetyl-L-Tyrosine
L-Theanine
Coluracetam
Noopept
Caffeine

Thanks in advance

 

[InterestingFACT]

Im looking if anybody knows if there will be any interaction/risk in taking the following nootropic stack with the medication Mirtazapine:

N-Acetyl-L-Tyrosine
L-Theanine
Coluracetam
Noopept
Caffeine

Thanks in advance

No, you're in the clear.

Mirtazepine is an alpha2a and alpha2c adrenergic antagonist, and to a lesser extent, a 5ht2c and 5ht2a antagonist. It also is a strong antagonist of h1 histamine receptors but these will quickly re-regulate so that this is not really the primary mechanism of action.

There are no direct contraindications but it's possible that you'll be sensitive to caffeine. if you're new to this medication, however, it might cause temporary fatigue which could be offset by that caffeine.

Fortunately mirtazepine does not possess much affinity for muscarinic receptors as is typical of trycyclics. But to the extent that mirtazepine might impair memory or cognition the noopept and caffeine (and coluracetam, though I can't personally attest to it) should be rather effective at fighting those side effects.