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Nootropics The Big & Dandy Nootropics Thread (Stack 2)

Damn yeah that does sound really amazing. And everything thing you address I have some issues with. Especially the speech thing I have severe social anxiety and the only thing that breaks it is LSD but obviously that's not acceptable to use everyday or and certain environments.
I have not been a not fan because it's so hard to tell if anything is even working.
Did you use Novartis (prescription) hydergine or did you find your average consumer grade raw hydergine acceptable?
And is there any tolerance issues with it since it's an ergoloid?
 
I found some European brand, don't remember which. I didn't notice any tolerance issues. I believe the dose was 5mg per pill if I recall correctly.
 
If you guys find where to get some ordered to the US please let me know, I remember looking for some for a bit a year or so ago and not being able to find it anywhere.
 
Wow how many years back was this?
It looks like Novartis discontinued hydergine back in 2005. There are some liquid caps but I don't trust the manufacturer, and with taking any ergoloid I Deff would like to gave ease of mind knowing that it is in fact hydergine.
Don't want any saint Anthony's fire syndrome going on haha
 
It was 2005 or 2006, but it wasn't Novartis. A friend contacted a US chemical supply company in 2006 and pretended he had a lab, and managed to get a gram. He used a bit and gave the rest to me. I found it less effective than the manufactured pills for some reason.
 
Hi guys, I’m new here. Below is my stack. Some of it is to recover from frequent use of heavy narcotics in high doses/few days at a row. Hexen and 4-cmc were the last of them. Before that: coke, mdma, 4-Mmc, 3-mmc and all other similar in name. Clean for 2,5 months now. I want to balance everything in my head, repair as much as possible and push it even further. If you have some advices or if there is something significant I should add/remove, your feedback will be most welcome. Here it is:


Morning:

  1. Before breakfast:
    • 1.5 g tyrosine
    • 1.5 g AAKG
    • 200 mg Modafinil (cycle 2 days on-2 off, or 1 on 1, taken longer I lower the dose to 100 mg)
    • A spoon of coconut oil
    • Vitamins + minerals complex
    • 50 mg Coenzyme Q10
    • 2 g Omega 3 (360 mg EPA, 240 mg DHA + 7,35 mg vit. E)
  2. With breakfast (30-40 min after 1.)
    • 0.75-1 g Aniracetam
    • 10-30 mg Coluracetam
    • 200-300 mg Theanine (used to 400 mg, twice daily sometimes. Not healthy from what I read)
    • Approx. 100 mg Caffeine from coffee, 50 mg if on Modafinil
    • 500 mg ALCAR
    • 200-400 mg 50% Alpha-GPC
  3. 2-2,5 hours after breakfast
    • 1.5 g tyrosine


Noon, afternoon:

  1. With 2nd breakfast (30-40 min after 3.)
    • 0.75-1 g Aniracetam
    • 10-30 mg Coluracetam
  2. 2-2,5 hours after 2nd breakfast
    • 100 mg 5-htp
    • 250 mg Green tea extract (55% EGCG)
  3. With lunch (Not always. Same as at 4.)
    • Approx. 750 mg Aniracetam
    • 10-30 Coluracetam
  4. 2-2,5 hours after lunch
    • 100 mg 5-htp
    • 250 mg Green tea extract
Evening:

  1. With dinner (same as at 4.)
    • 500-750 mg Aniracetam
    • 10-30 mg Coluracetam
    • Rarely 500 mg ALCAR
    • Rarely approx. 100 mg Theanine
Second coffee, same as before, usually somewhere along the way

  1. 2-2,5 hours after dinner
    • 100 mg 5-htp
    • Vitamins + minerals complex
    • Spoon of coconut oil
    • 2 g Omega 3
  2. With supper (sometimes)
    • Approx. 500 mg Aniracetam
    • 10-20 mg Coluracetam


These are my very beginnings with ani and coluracetam, I plan to taper aniracetam to 750 mg 3x daily and coluracetam to 80-90 mg a day and see how it works out. I also take 0.5-1 g of Clonazepam when I feel I want something extra, when partying especially. Not so often tho as I am aware of the danger coming with benzos. Beside that I have snuff tobacco, which I take on a constant basis. It helps me with keeping drugs at bay, I guess. Last, but definitely not least, I try to meditate 20 min daily. “Try”, as I have big problem with being consistent. Nevertheless I find it better than all of the above combined when doing regularly.
The topic is quite dead I see, but anyway, I hope for a nice discussion.
 
Xorkoth-LC has been interested in sunifiram for quite a while now, especially because the intermediate N-propionylpiperazine could be used towards a piperazine based opioid agonist.

What can you tell me about it Xorkoth? It seems like its one of the high-impact AMPAkines, potentially dangerous if used in excess, due to risks of consequences such as excitotoxicity, convulsant effects etc.

But when used at low doses, effects like BDNF release, powerful neurogenesis effects and memory enhancement. Its been one of the nootropics I've most wanted to try for a while now, especially given the potential ease of synthesis from such easily obtained precursors as piperazine (if I can't get hold of some BZP to serve as a protected piperazine) and both propionyl and benzoyl
chloride.

Xorkoth, (or anyone else with experience here) what do you think about the idea of using memantine in order to help damp down risks of excitotoxicity, still of course staying on a low dose of sunifiram.? perhaps adding in an anticholinesterase such as in particular, huperzine-A *it is not just an anticholinesterase, but also an NMDA antagonist, of the polyamine site.
 
I can't comment on the use of memantine although from what I understand NMDA antagonists reduce risk of excitotoxicity. As far as the effects of sunifiram, it is rather subtle and not so obvious to pinpoint like other nootropics, but it also functions as a noticeable stimulant. Not anything like amphetamine or even caffeine, but it gives me some energy. I used it occasionally until I went through a gram... given the dose is like 6mg, it was quite a few uses, but I never bothered to get it again. I took 15mg once (I always took it sublingually) and found it to be somewhat uncomfortable, somewhat more stimulating but also anxiogenic.
 
What is its (oral, swallowed) bioavailability like compared to sublingually?

And how long does a dose of say, 5mg oral last for? sub-lingually or otherwise, from a single dose.

And xorkoth, it is my understanding that DM-235/sunifiram is one of the high-impact AMPAkines, and thus in excess could provoke seizure or excitotoxicity. So that dosing low is likely to give any benefits to be yielded by the drug compared with higher, more dangerous dosing, that is much more likely to cause if anything, impairment, or at least loss of the valuable qualities to be had from a high-impact AMPAkine.

Its just such an attractive-looking synthetic target (especially from BZP, with first propionylation, catalytic hydrogenolysis of the benzyl group and then benzoylation), especially as there are some similar structures involving, in their cases, alkyl-acylpiperazines which act as opioid agonists at MOR. Such as N-propionyl-N-(trans)-cinnamylpiperazine, and its more potent N-(n)-butyryl-N-(trans)-cinnamylpiperazine.)

I'd love to give this one a try. I did have a go but had difficulty separating out 1,4-bisacylated piperazine vs the 1-propionylpiperazine. Although I should have a new vacuum pump soon which should do the job. Or else start from N-formylpiperazine and benzylation, followed by decarboxylation via a long, slow boil in conc. KOH solution.
 
DM-235 / Sunifiram is useful in very low amount - 3-6mgs in my observations. Been using it for years at times of high mental stress. Combines well with Noopept. Goes very nicely with Memantine. Not so good with stimulants - may cause headache.

I have a suspicion that Sunifiram acts on sigma-1 receptor (most likely agonizing it, directly or indirectly) as it has weird interaction with Fabomotizole - in very low doses of Sunifiram it feels nice together, increasing it over 5mg in combo might make it uncomfortable and give me a headache and tense feeling.

I would be pretty careful with Huperzine-A - really quickly and unnoticeable it may make your muscle tense and make you feel jittery, which to me sounds like result of too much acetylcholine. I only use it before sleep now in minuscule amounts on night when I want to try having lucid dreaming and brighter dreams in general.
 
I'd say sublingual definitely makes a difference in BA, I found the same dose much more subtle from oral. It lasts a few hours, maybe 4.

These posts have inspired me to give fabomotizole and etifoxine a try. :)
 
Have you tried valerian extract at high doses (like, an entire box of pills is what does it for me) for lucid dreaming? because it has caused many times in me the most prolonged and intense oneirogenic effects, so strongly so that it feels like, on waking, that one has been on a rollercoaster, and its been a white knuckle ride, because the entire night has either been one long lucid dream, or many many of them, all connected into a continual narrative following on from one another, even waking up intermittently, go back to sleep and back it comes). Probably the most powerful oneirogen I've ever encountered. Although tachyphylaxis occurs within a couple of such doses to this effect, which also declines fast. It can be so...overwhelming...that its almost like DMT for sleeping people.

I don't know which of the compounds present is responsible, or if its synergistic. Since there are alkaloids, terpenoids, things that have GABAa PAM activity (loreclezole binding site, although I haven't yet tried loreclezole so I can't compare, I've never had any other agonist for that binding site either), probable voltage-gated sodium channel modulators and all sorts. Smells like a dead north korean dictator's armpit after being scrubbed with a wedge of stilton cheese and soaked in fermenting piss, but it does have some astonishing effects. I think I might just go for some tonight (valerian that is), after I take my pain meds, chlormethiazole (which I take for seizure prophylaxis) and a dose of nitrazepam to make sure I'm not awoken by the intensity of the lucid dreaming.

As for huperzine-A, I have experience with this as a nootropic. Best to start small (say, 50ug) and build up slowly until you get where you want to be. This is after all, a nerve agent, and it does have the same sorts of dangers as other nerve agents, although unlike organophosphates it can neither be removed from cholinesterase with oximes, nor does it form a complex with the enzyme that ages and undergoes a rearrangement reaction after a time to form an irreversible complex, like organophosphate military nerve agents do. But too large a dose can still poison a person, and going up too far too quickly will make you puke out of arse holes you didn't even know you had, along with sweating, muscle cramping or fasciculations or both, seizure in large overdose, paralysis and inability to breathe if one really overdid it, the hershey squirts, salivation, vomiting, rhinorrhea and a host of other pleasant effects. So going up from initially about 50ug, or 100ug in 25-50ug increments, smaller increments the closer you are to larger dosages is advisable.
 
Have you tried valerian extract at high doses (like, an entire box of pills is what does it for me) for lucid dreaming?
I think there were some case reports of hepatotoxicity at non-recreational doses, I'm curious if you have any thoughts on the hepatotoxicity potential of valerian extract? I haven't really heard of any anecdotal reports either way. Maybe the case reports are outliers but I'm still weary of downing a whole bottle of valerian
 
I wasn't aware of it Cotcha. What do you mean by non-recreational doses? valerian being kind of an odd one, in that although its a sedative, it doesn't make one all messed up like say, barbs, or chlormethiazole, or a solid dose of some strong hypnotic benzo, and its effects are largely expressed when one has fallen asleep, if you don't mean strictly the sedating effect itself.

It doesn't seem hallucinogenic, that is to say, but it certainly does seem psychedelic, but in a strictly oneirogenic manner.
As for being wary of downing a whole bottle of valerian, with the way the stuff smells, I'm not surprised. Stuff fucking stinks like an old age hooker's skidmarked kecks mixed liberally with something gouged out from under the toenails of somebody with a fungal nail infection. Although apparently its absolutely irresistible to rats. (I recall reading somewhere that its thought the legend of the pied piper of hammelin might have its roots in a ratcatcher stowing valerian root or extract about his person, and baiting the rats out of town.

Anything you can link me to about studies pertaining to hepatotoxicity Cotcha?
 
There's gotta be better oneirogens, why don't you try galantamine or calea? Or maybe african dreamroot?
If you're dedicated, just practice techniques like MILD / WILD and train yourself to notice tells of dreams. I think lucid dreaming is extraordinary and have achieved advanced stages of lucidity and control, but it became clear to me that at least without more training this puts you (well, me) at risk from waking up and I generally have too much trouble sleeping to sacrifice sleep over it. I decided this until I know I can afford to mess around more. In any case I doubt I would down a bottle of pretty much anything for such purpose. Everything has a toxicity level and that is a 'good' way to look for it.

Sunifiram is interesting but it is best used incidentally in my opinion, there isn't really a good way to offset our lack of knowledge on its safety as far as I know and I certainly wouldn't take drugs like acetylcholinesterases with it which (the class) theoretically can cause problems of their own so novel interactions would be the last thing you want. Even if things like huperzine are on their own considered safe.
Sunifiram is pretty stimulating to me.. it's a good nootropic but I don't know how it compares to say dexamphetamine which I now take daily in XR form.

Especially if you have issues with GABAergics it seems unwise to mess around with potential glutamatergic encitotoxins, I am curious what makes you think any significant risk could be worth ventures with it beyond the modest and incidental?

Sunifiram definitely has an interesting structure though and yes there are fascinating analogies to things like BZP and certain nootropics. If you are looking to use the structure only as inspiration for novel opioids I don't see why you would need to try and push the envelope with trying sunifiram in ways you probably shouldn't. The target opioids to synth should not be similarly nootropic and I would abandon any if they retain such effects simply because you can't even really glance enough about the safety etc from sunifiram itself.
 
Galantamine is really effective for vivid/lucid dreaming, I use it occasionally. Definitely the most effective thing I've used for the purpose (besides ibogaine, but ibogaine, while being an intensely potent oneirogen for me, goes far beyond that in its effects of course).
 
Iboga is not bad if your dying wish is to finally get lucid dreams I guess :)
Going into the "afterlife" on oneirogens is considered cheating I'm sure..
 
I've actually been considering getting some iboga TA extract or root bark to make my own, so I can take much lower doses than floods and explore the state more. When I did my flood dose, the lower follow-up dose (equivalent to about 350mg of ibogaine HCl) was one of the most interesting states I've ever been to, as soon as I closed my eyes I would immediately begin to have really interesting and mystical visions that would sort of fade into full-on dreams as I got more and more drawn in.
 
What do you mean by non-recreational doses?
Anything you can link me to about studies pertaining to hepatotoxicity Cotcha?
Upon second glance these papers seem scant, lacking abstracts and have some problems relating to controls (some reports of hepatotoxicity relate to herbal formulations containing more than just valerian) but its still a tad worrisome I suppose

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1838039/?page=1
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18431248
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26813905
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19138557

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14516421 - Apparently valerian isn't too good for hepatocytes in vitro, but I'll imagine the concentration of valerian they're using is heroic

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18474410 - Seems to imply valerian isn't harmful to rat livers by itself (no dosages mentioned) but implies valerian will synergystically worsen liver damage when combined with a hepatotoxic agent such as haloperidol (or possibly alcohol?)

valerian being kind of an odd one, in that although its a sedative, it doesn't make one all messed up like say, barbs, or chlormethiazole, or a solid dose of some strong hypnotic benzo, and its effects are largely expressed when one has fallen asleep, if you don't mean strictly the sedating effect itself.

I thought this author's quote was interesting
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15982998 - "On the other hand, side-effects with valerian would appear to be bland indeed.

However,it's slow onset of effect (2-3 weeks)renders it unsuitable for short-term use (i.e. 'jet-lag'), but it does have profound beneficial effects on sleep architecture (augments deep sleep) that may make it particularly suitable for long-term use and for the elderly."

Slow onset of effect? I've never actually tried taking it many days in a row, just a handful of pills a couple of occasions. Now my curiosity is piqued. Although there was a report of typical GABAergic withdrawal from valerian. I'd be interested in PK details on the active compounds
 
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