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The Big & Dandy N-Ethyl-Norketamine Thread

Ok so i went ahead and plugged my remaining 205mg, its certainly not completely inactive via this route but it was very mild, mild yet really enjoyable, a positive mood lift and slight brightening of colors were present as well as some vague dissasociative-esque swirling behind the eyes, would be lovely if it wasn't so expensive.

I can function well on this dose and cant imagine anyone picking up on the fact im on it which is cool. I wonder if a hole is possible with this compound? will be interesting to find out although I imagine the dosage required to reach the hole would be very high and potentially dangerous. So far i'm thinking this one may be better off enjoyed in smaller doses just enjoying the subtle effects as opposed to hoping for it to enter you into the matrix like ketamine does lol.
 
I had read Adders post on PCP analogs before deciding to test the substance which shall not be named anymore so nobody gets offended and it is indeed very inconsistent with what we are collectively experiencing here. It makes one wonder wether the first batch of chemical tagged as "n-ethyl-ketamine" was something other than the molecule depicted in the picture they have where it is being sold at. Part of the effects felt serotonergic in a weird way that had me thinking the sample could have been adultered with some mild, moreish euphoriant. The day after there was noticeable nausea (=impurities?), some depression, anxiety and restlessness. I didn't find this substance an effective antidepressant like ketamine or mxe are, in fact the whole experience felt depressing, perhaps due to the disappointment in effects. The experience didn't feel meaningful in any psychological way, and unless I'm mistaken, the psychedelic effects from MXE and ketamine (which were very much missing from NEK) are essential for antidepressive outcomes.

Tolerance built up extremely rapid and on the day after primary experiments, the remaining ~200mg or so I had managed to produce only slight loss of motor control and relaxation, which faded in about 30 minutes. I actually found it kinda fascinating how fast ALL of the effects dissipated with IV adminstration. With regular ketamine you are usually left with hours of grogginess, no matter what RoA. The tendency to form foam in mouth was also present like with regular ketamine, but vastly higher doses of NEK were required to achieve that, still with extremely minimal psychedelia.

Something just doesn't feel right here, I had planned to save a small sample of the sample for detailed analysis to scout for impurities and adulterants, but well, if there are dissociatives in my cupboard they don't tend to stay there for long, no matter how useless they are. There's always that little voice telling me "maybe they are useful but you just haven't found a purpose yet..." heh.

EDIT: On the chemistry side, can someone explain me if ketamine metabolizes to norketamine through demethylation and hydroxylation how can we call NEK n-ethyl-norketamine when norketamine has a double hydrogen with the NH2 there? I mean shouldn't it stop being norketamine altogether if you start sticking extra carbons in place of the hydrogens? I would have thought that n-ethyl-norketamine implies that there's a chain of two carbons sticking out after the NH2 which I doubt we're going to see happen.
 
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On the chemistry side, can someone explain me if ketamine metabolizes to norketamine through demethylation and hydroxylation
it's no hydroxylation - that would mean adding an OH-group.

how can we call NEK n-ethyl-norketamine when norketamine has a double hydrogen with the NH2 there?
hydrogens are mostly ignored in organic chemistry, because one assumes that everything is saturated with hydrogens when nothing else is said. while this is not as strict for nitrogen as for carbon (which always has four bonds), you still have the same principle here. when you remove a methyl from a nitrogen, you have to add a hydrogen instead, otherwise you would end with a radical.

I mean shouldn't it stop being norketamine altogether if you start sticking extra carbons in place of the hydrogens?
indeed it does stop being norketamine after ethylation - but as I have already stretched, the correct nomenclature is both cumbersome and misleading.

I would have thought that n-ethyl-norketamine implies that there's a chain of two carbons sticking out after the NH2 which I doubt we're going to see happen.
again the IUPAC nomenclature strikes: ethylation in organic chemistry generally means replacing a hydrogen with an ethyl group.

EDIT (added later):
Although I completely agree that the name N-ethyl-norketamine is the most correct and should therefore be the one to be used (certainly on this site at least), I think its probably fair to say that the abbreviation N-EK is the one thats going to stick, especially with the vendors and therefore with the public.

I still find myself having to refer to the APBs as Benzo Fury around intelligent people so they know what I'm talking about. Instead of saying which particular 3-MeO-PCx I sniffed last night I find that everyone knows what I mean when I refer to it as "that PCP stuff". I know plenty of people who still struggle with the term RC in general. You start firing off relatively long chemical names or a load of numbers and letters and most people just get confused.

I would say that N-EK and ethylketamine are sufficient names to distinguish this stuff from the standard product in the eyes of the average Joe, regardless of whether they are technically correct. Ideally we would have a decent naming convention for all arylcyclohexylamines but that would almost certainly involve renaming ketamine, something thats not likely to happen. Perhaps though we could make some sort of list of names like:


Ketamine = N-methyl-norketamine = 2-Cl-2-Oxo-PCM
N-EK = N-ethyl-norketamine = 2-Cl-2-Oxo-PCE
2-MK = 2-methoxy-deschloroketamine = 2-MeO-2-Oxo-PCM


Anyone care to expand this list?
the abbreviation PCM is problematic itself, because some people use it for the morpholine analogue of PCP, e.g. here: http://catbull.com/alamut/Lexikon/Mittel/pcm.htm

but for the sake of clear nomenclature, PCM should be used in the way you did (what would be the full IUPAC name of this compound - 1-phenyl-1-(methylamino)cyclohexane ?), and the aforementioned morpholine analogue of PCP should be therefore called PCMo (as the english-language wikipedia already does).

now what obviously also needs to be listed is;

methoxetamine = 3-MeO-2-Oxo-PCE
 
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Gave this compound a test last night. Its like a very calm, non chaotic, non confusing version of MXE. It doesn't produces the mania MXE tends to give, it's much more "controllable" and give a heavier bodyfeel than MXE (Which is good, because on MXE you on walk around on m-hole doses)

But... It really damages the nasal membranes, I don't understand why plugging shouldn't work? If insufflating works, why shouldn't plugging? I'm not saying you are wrong, I just don't understand why it doesn't work.
Insufflating is not a good harm reduction ROA because it really clogs and makes your nose sore the next day. Thank god I have a nasal spray with moisturizers -it really does wonders! highly recommended.

Is oral the only way to go? If yes, what doses? (Minor tolerance only)
 
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Gave this compound a test last night. Its like a very calm, non chaotic, non confusing version of MXE. It doesn't produces the mania MXE tends to give, it's much more "controllable" and give a heavier bodyfeel than MXE (Which is good, because on MXE you on walk around on m-hole doses)
yes, this compound is definitely much closer to ketamine than to methoxetamine, in the sense that the stimulating/manic effects do not occur. in higher doses, ethylketamine just leads to calm dissociated effects, just like ketamine.

I just had my first proper dose yesterday, and I really like this substance. I went through 500 mg within the course of several hours nasally. first observation: for me, this compound is just as easy on the nose as regular ketamine, it even has a similar taste/smell/feeling in the nose, which I actually appreciate a lot. it just contributes to my pleasant anticipation to sense the ketamine taste in my nose. of course I have grinded my material to a fine powder before snorting, as it is IMHO mandatory with any substance one plans to consume nasally.

maybe the people complaining about nose problems have never realized the importantce for mechanical breakup of compounds intended for nasal use...? hard to imagine for me that this could be a big revelation to someone, but then again one reads too often that for some "silent rollers" the only technique to powderize ketamine seems to be to dissolve it in water and then cook it off again... 8)

coming to the effects: it is very similar to ketamine, basically. sweet dissociation, music appreciation, complex geometrical closed eye visuas... for me as a ketamine lover, the same magic is there within this compound. I get the same psychedelic, euphoric and visionary effects out of ethylketamine that I also get from regular ketamine. I cannot find anything in this experience that is "darker" than ketamine. in some sense I cannot explain, the ketamine/ethketamine experience always felt turquoise to me; the subtle differences in quality of the experience then maybe can be described as ketamine more on the blue side, and ethketamine more on the green side (or the other way round, I'm not sure yet :) ). basically, what I am trying to say is that the qualitative effect of both compounds feels very similar to me, with only slight differences that are hard to put in word (in the same way as it is hard to explain the difference between e.g. 4-HO-MET and 4-HO-MiPT).

also, I did not experience any other negative side effects, just like with ketamine; the only thing I could complain about is some lingering stimulation after the psychedelic effects have already ended, but this again is completely the same with usual ketamine, and can be easily cured by a little etizolam. on the next day, I woke up completely refreshed and feeling fine.

the only negative thing I can say about ethylketamine is that the duration is a bit shorter than regular ketamine, while the potency is only slighty increased (what a pity the SAR prediction of two- or threefold increased potency did not turn out to be true...). because of that, I still didn't hole on ethylketamine this time, but I came close. unfortunately, I had a huge tolerance for dissociatives from the beginning (my first tries with ketamine were all very disappointing, because I did the same amound everyone else did to hole, which gave me only mediocre effects - then I realized I just need much more than others - but then, I am also quite big and heavy), and this tolerance of course even increased with years of use (I did no heavy abuse of arylcyclohexylamines execpt for one heavy methoxetamine binge, but as you know, dissociative tolerance builds up quick and decays only very slowly). so next time I will be using ethylketamine, I will make sure to get an initial dose of 300 mg nasally, and I have no doubt this will give a wounderful hole. again, words of caution: that is just me and my tolerance. I can perfectly imagine a lighthead already holing on 150 mg ethket nasally or even less.

with all the things said above, one has to admit that this compound is quite pricey compared to regular ketamine. but since all my ketamine connections have dried up and I wasn't able to purchase my favourite delight in over a year, I really appreciate this compound appearing on the RC market. hopefully, we will see a significant price slash before the inevitable ban, so that I can buy a lifetime supply of this gem...
 
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I really don't know how you can say its easy on the nose, doubt I'll be doing anymore, I'm still getting blood whenever I blow my nose.

Either this stuff is naturally eroding on the nose or it's got really bad impurities in it.
 
I really don't know how you can say its easy on the nose, doubt I'll be doing anymore, I'm still getting blood whenever I blow my nose.

Either this stuff is naturally eroding on the nose or it's got really bad impurities in it.
well, either our batches or our nostrils are very different...

did you grind it up to a fine powder before insnufflation?
 
I crushed the crystals into fine powder and insufflated - stings like ethylphenidate, leaves about the same damage. It feels like my nose i broken.
 
i dont think grinding it to fine powder would make difference as i dissolves as soon as it hits your mucus anyway.
 
Ethylketamine, 2-(2-chlorophenyl)-2-(ethylamino)cyclohexanone

Route/dose: 100mg intramuscularly of HCl salt
Report:
The name is obviously wrong but it’s easy to know what hides there. This is just ketamine with ethyl on amine (just like in case of PCE). This obviously had an impact on drug potency. It’s not stronger by a factor of 2 or 3 but 100mg i.m. knocked me out totally and I was EthylK-holing for about an hour. So it didn’t really alter duration of experience. It’s got already a broken piperidine ring, ethyl is known to be the best when it comes to potency so here it is, get an S-enantiomer and you’ve got a winner.

This report (from the link Transform posted above) seems to be coming from someone with a large experience in arylcyclohexylamines and access to personal lab synthesis. That report also seems to somewhat fit the expected profile of the chemical. So either the purity and composition of the batch going around is questionable, or this report is false in some way. It would be nice to see some NMR/HPLC for the current batch.

That same guy also reports 2-MeO-ketamine as not having much difference from regular ketamine in comparison to effect and dose.
 
I haven't tried it yet but when I do I will be lining my nose with water first, in the hope of reducing the damage and also aiding absorption.
 
What about bladder problems with ketamine? (The TV documentary was a big turnoff for me on K) Is it from K, or some impurity?
 
The popular myth is that ketamine is metabolised into norketamine, which irritates the bladder. But nobody has ever actually done any sort of controlled studies to show that conclusively. All we can say for sure is some individuals will have bladder problems induced by high-dose, chronic ketamine use. It's spotty, and not everyone who uses loads of K will have bloody piss. Those that do get problems will stop increasing in severity and may even recede somewhat when use of ketamine is stopped.

Bladder damage is reported in the medical literature from clinical usage of ketamine, so it's not likely it's a cut. It is more likely that some people are predisposed to ketamine or its metabolites being more irritating than usual. But like I said nobody knows for sure.
 
I crushed the crystals into fine powder and insufflated - stings like ethylphenidate, leaves about the same damage. It feels like my nose i broken.

IMO I feel like this does more damage than ethylphenidate.
 
IMO I feel like this does more damage than ethylphenidate.

I can imagine anyone using this stuff on a regular basis will do some serious harm to their nose.

I only snorted a small amount in one night and my nose is still hurting after 2/3 days.

I would say this is a far more worrying factor for this chemical than respiratory depression or bladder damage
 
Those that do get problems will stop increasing in severity and may even recede somewhat when use of ketamine is stopped.

That's not really true. Some people have had to have their bladders surgically removed. The best course of action would simply be not to abuse it in the first place. Just use your frikken common sense and don't be holing any more than once a week, which is still far too often.
 
My nose seems to be calming down now pain-wise but im still getting blood, it really just isnt worth it and considering its pretty useless orally and rectally im certainly not touching the stuff again.
 
Dissolved 150mg in 1.5ml water (it's piss easy to dissolve) and squirted it up my nostril, holding my other nostril closed.

No pain whatsoever. Feels and tastes very like ketamine.

Feels nice and wonky.

I think a fair bit of this has gone down my throat though, will need to try and increase the concentration.

Absolutely no pain though, if our batches are the same then the pain must be a mechanical thing.

Either that or I wake up tomorrow in agony!
 
Has there been anyone who has actually got some physical characteristics for this supposed ethyl-norketamine? Shit like m.p. of the salt, top limit of solubility in water etc, perhaps optical activity?

In short: has there been any convincing evidence to suggest this is really ENK? Or has it been the usual bioassays-only?
 
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