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The Big & Dandy DOC Thread (Part 1)

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Hey everyone! My first post in nearly a year, 's been a while.

This is getting off-topic (bromo-dragonfly vs LSD), but I have to concur with those who say DOC is more than worth trying. I have tripped dozens - hundreds? - of times, on almost everything out there; I am someone who considers psychedelics an important part of my life; and yet I can safely say the only truly life-altering experiences I've had were with three: LSD, DOC and DMT+DPT.

I could not ever rank the three; they each showed me God, The Universe and Everything in their own ineffable way. But DOC was by far the most spiritual. I spent the better part of 24 hours on DOC weeping and groveling into a dishtowel like an elderly widow, shuddering before the awesome power of God (or whatever you choose to call that Big Thing).

I'm not a Christian, nor do I proclaim any religious affiliation, but my own nickname for DOC, coined during one of my more lucid moments under its spell, is "Died On a Cross". I felt I could finally understand, to my absolute core, what true spiritual enlightenment was -- and happened to have been reading a bit of Judeo-Christian religious history that week, so there you go.

But honestly, it all comes down to set and setting doesn't it. I could probably have had the same experience on half a dozen other chemicals, under similar circumstances.

VB
 
Great post and welcome back!

Although DOC was not my most profound trip, it ranked among the top 4 or 5 for sure. I didn't have a +4 on it (the 3 in which I did, mushrooms, 2C-E and 4-AcO-DMT, are my top 3), but DOC has given me amazing experiences, and I think if I get the chance to take it in an optimal setting like camping on a mountain with good friends or something, it could easily have the potential for such an experience. Nonetheless, it has still helped me a lot on several occasions and I love it dearly. I think DOM has the same potential if not more, but the thing about DOC that it wonderful (among other things), is the profound and beautiful sense of sublime peace and joy it instills, especially after the peak and for the next 24 hours or so.
 
Why is the scientific name name for DOC more commonly..

4-chloro-2,5-dimethoxyamphetamine

and not

2,5-dimethoxy-4-chloroamphetamine

?
 
^^^^ While it's often expressed and understood either way, IUPAC nomenclature prefers the first version as it follows proper alphabetic protocol:

4-chloro-2,5-dimethoxyamphetamine.
 
Question.. The first psychedelic I ever tried was DOC... I've done it quite a bit and I loved every single trip I've had on it. Then one day, I was introduced to LSD. I had done that a few times and had quite a few mind blowing trips on it and hadn't touched DOC ever since..until the other night. I ingested 2mg (which used to be a good dose for me) and it was awful. I didn't trip that hard at all and I ended up disappointed. Could it be that since I tried LSD and it rocked my world that I won't get anything out of DOC anymore, or did I just not take a high enough dose? I'd like to give it another try with a higher dose but I'm almost scared I'll have a bad experience again.

I've learned a lot from DOC and even had a healing experience with 4mg one time, so I don't want it to end like this...
 
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Whats a good dose for someone who is relatively experienced with psychedelics?

I've had experience with LSD,AMT,DOM,Salvia,LSA, and MDA.

Just don't want to take a dose too low and be dissapointed.

I was thinking 3mg
 
AuraithX said:
Whats a good dose for someone who is relatively experienced with psychedelics?

I've had experience with LSD,AMT,DOM,Salvia,LSA, and MDA.

Just don't want to take a dose too low and be dissapointed.

I was thinking 3mg
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you wont be disappointed with 2mg
 
I would go for 3mg personally. Well, first try a very small dose, like .25mg or something, to see if you would react badly. Then assuming not, go for 3. 2 is a good experience but I found 3 more comfortable and "complete".

I agree though, you wouldn't be disappointed with 2mg - it's powerful also. But I just think you'll more enjoy 3mg.
 
my first dose was 4mg.
while 2mg you will get psychedelic effects from DOC, i think at doses over 5mg DOC will take you to another level.
I have tried doses at 7mg and over and it was a +++.
DOC is very astrological sensed for me

start low and find your sweet spot
 
Is it just me or has DOC fallen "off the radar" significantly lately? Don't get me wrong, this is probably a good thing after all the hype in 2005-2006 but I'm just wondering if people have changed their opinion of it in hindsight?

As for the "astrological sense", I tend to agree, but probably in a different context. I notice my "spiritual energy", "prana" etc. seems to ebb and flow yearly with the solar cycle (peaking around the summer solstice) and my only experience with DOC was ~1.8mg in the spring. I found it uncomfortably stimulating and very electric if that makes sense. It felt a bit as though there was a current of electricity between my joints and it was difficult to get comfortable. The psychedelic effects were pretty minimal and I ended up taking Valium and going to sleep around t +12. I have limited experience with stimulants so I may not have the correct vocabulary to explain myself properly.

Now that its fall and things are starting to wane, I think something a bit stimulating could be useful and I've been contemplating taking DOC again for a while. After a recent mild LSD trip I really enjoyed the length and especially the slow decline.

I think previously my DOCe might have been a bit low so I never really got passed the stimulating qualities. I'd like to try 3mg shortly and see how that works out.

Does anyone know about degradation? I've had my DOC stored in an amber vial dissolved in vodka in the freezer for over 6 months, should I expect any noticeable loss of potency?
 
I agree with illusion that DOC feels "astrological". It's very classically psychedelic, strong, very strong.

My early trials with it were simply fantastic. For quite a while though it's been much less dramatically psychedelic, and just provided a strongly empathogenic, more weakly psychedelic experience that gives me vasoconstriction. I suppose this is mostly due to my long-term tolerance which I suspect will be a while to dissipate. But I wonder if anyone else has experienced the same?

Finally, e1, 1.8mg is going to be a different sort of beast than 2.5-3.5mg. I'd go for 3, personally. As long as you're sure you could handle it if it turned out to be too stimulating again (not enjoy, but handle, not freak out). But personally I find full doses of DOC to be rather relaxing, not stimulating. My 1.2mg dose of DOC, the first one, was very stimulating, however. Over the summer, I took several doses of DOC in the 4-5mg range to spend a day with my family and friends in a lakehouse, nortern-Wisconsin paradise. It was great, just great. But had I taken that much before, Id've been completely out of commission until about T+10, when the second stage hit. In fact, now that I mention the "second stage" of DOC, it has seemed every time I've taken in within the past half a year or so the experience has been entirely composed of that second stage, the euphoric, empathogenic, social part.

And from what I understand, DOX substances are extremely stable, like other amphetamines. I doubt you've experienced degradation. And also, for what it's worth, the last of the "old kind of trip" that I've gotten from DOC was the last dose I took of the first batch I received. This batch came as a small collection of small crystals, not as powder, and every experience with it was powerfully deep and psychedelic. My other DOC has all been of a different appearance, as a whitish-clear powder made of really tiny shards.
 
Thanks for the thoughtful response.

I used to notice a similar feeling with AMT to a lesser degree, but over time the stimulation has become much more tolerable so hopefully some of that translates over to DOC.

If things got really unbearable I'd take some valium or K-pin to help with the physical side effects. I'd imagine a small dose could provide some physical relief and mental calm without detracting too much from the experience. As for a total "freak out", while highly unlikely, its been a quiet, yet constant concern in the back of my mind when it comes to amphetamine psychedelics. Now that I have some Risperdal that fear is significantly lessened as I feel more confident in my ability to handle "the absolute worst case scenario" should it ever arise.

Also the DOC I got is a very fine crystal, not a powder and I think its from the earlier batches as I got it during the period when DOC was unavailable for the most part.
 
^^ Sounds like the first batch I got, unfortunately only 100mg then. I had some overwhelmingly intense (but in a very good way) trips on 3-4mg of that stuff... even using it for months in a row once a week, every experience was very strong, extremely visual and powerful and archetypal. it's a very easy strong trip to handle... DOM was much more abrasive. Most things are, in fact.

You should feel lucky, then... I just thought that batch (if it is indeed the sa,me one) was simply better. So yeah, definitely go for 3mg. My strongest experience with it was with 3.5mg, but I went up to 4.5mg.
 
Another side note is that during around the time I took the first dose I had also been taking l-tyrosine and DLPA, both likely to enhance stimulation.

One thing I've found to be helpful lately and may be useful with stimulating drugs such as DOC is Taurine. Many people think its in energy drinks because its stimulating, but actually the opposite is true. As a vegan I'm likely a little low in taurine so I could possibly benefit from supplementation in the days prior to taking DOC. I also have a calming amino acid blend with B vitamins, magnesium, taurine, GABA and Valerian, which I'll likely take a few hours before.

I'll also be able to test my hypothesis that a small dose of ketamine, similar to that used in the anti-depressant research would be a good way to ensure a positive mood going into the experience and a less stressful come-up.

NATURE|Vol 443|12 October 2006 said:
So, by jamming the NMDA receptor, could ketamine be correcting a toxic glut of glutamate that is harming brain cells and causing depression? It is already known that stress floods the brain with glutamate, says Zarate. “It might be that these neurons are struggling to regulate glutamate, and if you stress them over and over, they become injured.” This hypothesis is still very new7. There is some evidence linking glutamate, and the NMDA receptor, to depression. Twenty-five years ago, for instance, scientists at the National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases in Bethesda, Maryland, showed that chemicals that target the NMDA receptor have antidepressant effects in animals8. Scientists have since found that deceased depressed human patients, such as suicide victims, have abnormal numbers of NMDA receptors. And brain-imaging studies have found that depressed people have much higher levels of glutamate in one region of their brains than healthy people9.
Click to expand...

Taurine
L-Taurine is an amino acid that can calm and stabilize your mind much like GABA. By retarding the release of adrenaline, taurine also protects you from the fight-or-flight response and post-stress anxiety. Because taurine is found in protein-rich organ meats, vegetarians are especially at risk for taurine deficiency.
Click to expand...

GABA (gamma-aminobutyric acid)
Reduced levels of GABA in the brain and nervous system are linked to anxiety, tension, and insomnia. In fact, prescription antidepressants like Valium and Librium work by increasing your system's response to GABA. GABA is an important neurotransmitter (chemical messenger) that helps to regulate brain and nerve cell function, producing a calming and focusing effect. GABA also protects the nervous system against overload which can lead to over-excitement or impulsive lapses in judgment.
Click to expand...
 
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yo this doc stuff soundz mad kewl. i am really wanting 2 try sum sumday if my girlfreind ever lets me! olol

nah, i luv her tho.

seriously, isnt all that weird drugs are bad for your brain? 8( 8( do you even kno what its gonna do to you self yet?
 
While there is not enough evidence to extrapolate a complete pharmacodynamics for each individual psychoactive substance we are discussing (remember every compound is unique), there is enough research done to generally get an idea of what receptor subtypes they are acting on.

In the case of DOC it is a full agonist at 5HT2a and 5HT2c receptors (serotonin receptors). It causes postsynpatic changes by binding to the receptor and changing the flow of information in your brain.
 
Just to add my experiences to the mix. My most memorable experience with it was a 5mg dose of DOC diluted in ethanol on an empty stomach. The come-up was suprisingly fast since 30-45 min in I was already tripping. The rest of the trip was a magical blur. At its peak I was at an intense +++ for two solid hours. The amphetamine like kick and euphoria was very clean and mellow (which is a rarity for me with psychedelics) and the visual were absolutely amazing. I was almost down about 12 hours after dosing.

As far as the mental activity, i found it very comparable to the maelstrom of confusion and profound insight that comes with shrooms, acid, and other of the more heady psychedelics.
 
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