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Tryptamines The Big & Dandy 5-MeO-MiPT Thread - Part 2

Thanks for the insight!

It seems allosteric binding sites for SSRI's or SRI's like DXM have not really been identified so possible conformational changes in SERT might vary enough between each drug to still allow MDMA's effects to a quite different degree.
 
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Okay so lot's of valuable info here but sadly as soon as these types of discussions head heavily towards pharmacology and neurochemistry I typically don't follow very well as I'm not well versed in this field of study but from what I'm gathering is that mixing moxy with momoamine releasers may and have been combined with no problems but in the end it's still a risky combination that would be best avoided due to reactions like the one's that poor fella felt in that foxy/MDMA TR I linked to soli ( http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=91890) ? Also, any interactions that may arise from this combo stem from moxys' re-uptake properties and not the supposed MAOI activity?
 
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From what sekio and ebola? have contributed I would say that apparently the re-uptake inhibition of serotonin and norepinephrin seem to be primary causes for bad interactions with serotonin and norepinephrin releasers, and secondary to that 'unwanted' agonism of various subtypes of serotonin may make matters worse. Like I said 5-HT2B would be a suspect, but others may also play a role that we don't really understand yet.

Even though I said primary and secondary I'm not really sure if we have enough evidence to say that problems wouldn't arise if it wasn't for one of these effects, but not the other. They may both contribute and perhaps in an additive or synergistic way.

But yes it does sound like it is enough to forget about MAOI activity. If there are no research results to suggest or support this, I guess the reason it came up is just that people were reminded of it because AMT has MAOI properties that can also lead to serotonin and norepinephrin levels treading much too far out of bounds. And excess serotonin is of course also what Serotonin Syndrome is all about.
While these matters are related or rather than related similar in some ways (the consequences), it is both hard and important to try and keep them separate as people get confused. Because it can mean differences in dangerous drug combinations / interactions that people are not expecting, since they are misunderstanding it. God knows the neuro&pharm people are often annoyed by SS panic.
 
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But yes it does sound like it is enough to forget about MAOI activity. If there are no research results to suggest or support this, I guess the reason it came up is just that people were reminded of it because AMT has MAOI properties that can also lead to serotonin and norepinephrin levels treading much too far out of bounds. And excess serotonin is of course also what Serotonin Syndrome is all about.
I had a big hunch that this is what the case was, just read post #256. Admittedly though I had no idea that re-uptake was to blame for these problems. What I still don't understand is why so many people get away with taking foxy/moxy with monoamine releasers with no problems but only a select few seem to develop these "SS like" symptoms. I mean I took an absurd amount of moxy on the tail end of an aMT trip and throughout the entire 6-APB trip and noticed zero worrying symptoms at all, in theory I should've been in danger right? Perhaps the etizolam was keeping my vitals in check and I was too messed up to notice my body temp? Who knows... either way I definately learned.quite a bit and will be more responsible with what I mix with this chem.
 
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The reuptake inhibition of this compound is so insignificant that its not even worth considering. The values solipsis posted are µM while the specific receptor affinities are in nM. Needless to say, you brain will fry long before you even reach the ED50 dose for reuptake inhibition, yet alone RI activity enough to produce interactions with other drugs.
 
Apparently the talk of it's MAOI activity is more scattered than I thought bur here's a post I found in a jiffy...

" Anyone here combined meoMIPT with stims before? I'm a bit sketch about the possible MAOI (and subsequent serotonin syndrome) effects"
Posted by a mod on this page: http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/100105-The-Big-amp-Dandy-5-MeO-MiPT-Thread/page31

There's more but I'm too lazy to scour the thread. A google search of "5-meo-mipt MAOI" brings up a couple more relevant comments. However there are also alot of people.doing what would be dangerous combos with no problems so agaim, I think it's MAOI activity is negligable
I've done over 20mgs 5-meo-mipt with 500mgs ethylone together in four IV doses within a day and exhibited no symptoms of serotonin toxicity. So if moxy's an maoi it's a very week effect.
 
does anyone know how 5-meo-mipt (low dose, oral, say 5mgs?) might influence tolerance to stims & empathogens (4fa and the like)?

looking to improve the fun factor of two consecutive nights out, and id hate to resort to the same stim on consecutive nights...
 
Well, I've taken Moxy one day and an APB the next a couple times and noticed no reduction to the body effects. I don't think 5-meo-mipt is a significant monoamine releaser so there shouldn't be much cross-tolerance. Not sure how dopaminergic moxy is but if you can read ki values there's a chart above. I'd say you would be good short-term cycling the two.
 
Well, I've found out about how long you can expect 5-meo-mipt to last in typical storage techniques: about 2 years.

I had both the salt and hcl versions. The HCL degraded first, about a year in, and became worthless about a year after that.

The salt was pretty hard hitting, is now far easier on the body, basically only works when vaporized

I kept them in a sealed baggie they came in, mostly closed inside a box - nothing special really.

The good news is, I just got a new order :D
 
Thats odd. I left 100 mgs of 5meomipt hcl on my kitchen counter for six months, completely open to air and light (sunlight, LED, and CFL) and even varying temperatures from 60-100 degrees F. I noticed a slight color change to it, from pure white to slightly tan but it did not loose any potency. It absorbed some water I image and weighed a bit more, but was otherwise in just as good shape as I started. I have found this compound to be rather stable.
 
I agree that this is a pretty stable compound. I've kept it in similar conditions as NJ5227 and have noticed a slight change in colour, almost adapting a pinkish tan from its original white tan. The last time I had tried it was 5 mg about 3 months ago and it was still as active as when I had originally purchased it about two and a half years ago. Definitely a very pleasant compound, it put me back in touch with the natural joys of the human experience during a rather stressful period.
 
I have a sample from 2009 that also turned pinkish tan a few months after I got it. The last time I tried it was in 2012 and according to my notes 13mg had the expected effects with no loss in potency.
 
Interesting sounding compound, I'll have to look more into this. I tried 5-MeO-DiPT back in 2008 and found it to be one of the more unique substances I've ever experienced.
 
I have a sample from 2009 that also turned pinkish tan a few months after I got it. The last time I tried it was in 2012 and according to my notes 13mg had the expected effects with no loss in potency.

quite odd! I wonder what made my samples lose potency??
 
I just got a chance to try out this wonderful chem for the first time last night. Mini-TR if anybody is interested;

So, I got to try 5-meo-mipt ("moxy") last night. I wasn't sure what to expect, one of my close psychonaut buddies described it to me as "tryptamine's answer to MDMA."

Well, I never felt as though MDMA needed an answer. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy my MDMA (who doesn't?) but I feel as though it has "lost the magic" after years and years of what can only be described as abuse (haven't used it in about a year, FWIW.) I still greatly enjoy sass and the like, and when I had this chemical described to me I pictured something between MDA and 2cb - the cherished molly euphoria, but with a visual component.

So this completely caught me off guard with how trippy it was. I smoked (vaporized?) an unknown amount, he told me how much powder he'd put into the bowl but I honestly don't remember. I trusted him to provide an experience that was sufficient, but not overwhelming. The drug was sandwiched between weed, and it tasted not unlike DMT (nowhere near as harsh though.) I exhaled and the onset was felt within a minute. As I rapidly entered the tryptamine headspace, my first thoughts were "this is WAY more psychedelic than I thought it'd be."

The rush was fast and intense, and the body load was pretty extreme. I felt for a minute as though I might puke but didn't end up needing to. It didn't take very long to peak, and while peaking the effects were incredible. Euphoria that was easily on par with MDMA, and visuals that were easily on par with mushrooms and the 4-subbed trypts. Everything was a colorful, hypervisual candyland! We really blasted off into space with the help of some weed and some ACTUAL psychedelic crack (nitrous oxide! <3) The colors were extremely prominent, the reds and pinks especially.

This also had a very sensual, tender feel to it. I did it with my SO, it was also her first time (she's relatively new to psychs but very down - mushies, lsd, and mdma are all she's done so far) and we both felt very connected and close. Everything had a super tactile, erotic touch. Sex on the comedown was pure bliss. The total duration of the effects lasted a few hours (4-5) and near the end, 1mg Xanax and 1mg etizolam were taken for sleep. I woke up feeling refreshed, no hangover or comedown, but rather in a tryptamine afterglow.

SUMMARY: This shit is the bee's titties. Highly recommended to any tryptamine fan out there. It has euphoria easily on par with MDMA and far surpassing any tryptamine that I know of, and it's visual component is similar to if mushrooms and 2cb had a baby. Wonderful experience, the body load is a tad heavy which is why I would recommend trying it orally before deciding if you want to smoke it, because smoked moxy is quite the rush! :D
 
I never understood how people compare moxy to MDMA, sure it has a nice glowing body buzz but it certainly doesn't feel monoaminergic. It has that more warm, buzzy 5-meo tryptamine body high that's nowhere near the intensity of MDMA...for me at least. I think the closest tryptamine to MDMA would be aMT (maybe aET as well going by reports). The duration is long and bodyload more intense but it's a strong TRA with some heavy serotonin release, feels way more like MDMA to me but even then I don't think there ever will be a "tryptamine MDMA". At least aMT has empathy and music appreciation characteristics though, never had either with 5-meo-mipt.

Moxy is a decent substance (the only 5-meo that I can even tolerate, though I would love to try 5-meo-met) however I find it works best in combination with other drugs, especially vaped. Vaping 15-20mgs of moxy in 5mg doses 5 minutes turns 4-sub and APB experiences into insanity, really intense visuals and body buzz when combo'd. My most recent combo with escaline.produced visuals that have surpased about all but maybe 3-4 trips I've ever had, to the point I thought I was gonna have a seizure lol. Rectal is also smoother and packs quite the punch while lasting about 3 hours instead of the 1-2 with vaping. Oral is decent but has a worse bodyload/effect ratio which doesn't let me push this one. Does anyone else feel that moxy has an orange color theme? Everytime I take it the world takes on an orange glow, it seems to be the color of moxy... meh maybe it's just me that assigns colors to psychs for instance 2c-e is yellow, DOC and 2c-c are aqua blue/green, mushrooms are green, purple, black etc...
 
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Got a chance to try this not so long ago. It was a small dose (10mg or a bit less) and combined with AL-LAD, and it combined wonderfully. It didn't remind me of mdma and didn't even give me the body buzz it's famous for, but it changed the nature of the trip, especially the visuals... Will probably try alone sometime.
 
A friend of a friend's levitating purple giraffe named Jeffrey happened to send me this note. Literate giraffes are quite wonderful little creatures, I must say:

"This drug is hedonism in the purest sense of the world. All food must be consumed, all wonderful smells taken in, every last touch felt in full, every sight must be seen and realized in its infinite glory, and lastly, my personal favourite, sound is absolutely glorious on 5-MeO-MiPT. One cannot help but to pleasure himself in whichever way he knows how, for there is nothing more important in this trip than the pursuit of pleasure. Even the most poorly cooked meals taste divine, even the smell of lemon pledge can nearly bring one to orgasm, as can a simple stroke of the arm or the wonderful sounds of psychedelic trance. Nothing is not enjoyable, and why not? After all, absolutely everything is made for the sole purpose of my own enjoyment, or so I believe at the time. Hilarity fills my veins as the uncontrollable laughter ensues once again, perhaps even more enjoyable than the last time. Sense of humour is broadened to the point where nearly anything becomes mind-numbingly hilarious. Any notion of seriousness, of anger, of sadness, these feelings were entirely foreign to me, and so I dismissed them outright. I found myself unable to experience any sort of negative emotions, and yet pleasure was intensified a thousand-fold. My heart was racing, and I sensed almost an empty feeling there, so I decided the best thing for me to do was simply not to move from my current spot. I decided to get on my laptop and browse Facebook, which in retrospect wasn't such a good idea being that I was so close to the peak. Almost immediately, I started making stupid posts regarding how fucked up I was, despite having my entire family on there with free reign to view each and every one of my posts (like I said though, there is absolutely nothing I can take seriously on this substance.) I continued dicking about for another 15 minutes or so until I felt a huge wave of sexual energy run throughout my entire body, each new wave taking only around 10 seconds to come on, one overlapping the next. I was filled with this orgasmic pleasure, which went on for another hour and a half and never once waned throughout this period. I never finished, despite my massive urges, nor did I even start for that matter. The orgasmic rushes throughout my body were more than enough not to need or want to whack it - I was fully pleasured without having to do anything at all. Regardless of how incredible these feelings were, this was not my reason for taking the substance. My intention was only to increase empathy, lower aggression, and alleviate depression. I can say the 3rd goal is almost completely achieved, and that significant progress is being made in terms of empathy, though I seemed to be even more aggressive after this trip - more on that towards the end.

After the sexual phase ended, I found myself in a profound state of peace, greater than any I had ever experienced before. I was content with everything, and it was all so perfect. Truly, that was one of the most beautiful moments of my life, yet I wasn't even feeling this way for anybody or anything in particular - this was a true happiness, one that relied only on myself to exist. I don't remember how long this feeling lasted, nor did I care. Time and space did not matter to me. I was infinitely content with myself, and I simply sank into my surroundings, not a single care in the world.

Upon opening my eyes, I decided to get back to my Facebook antics. I wasn't getting any replies back. Now, most of my friends don't approve of my substance use, but I had failed to think of this at the time. In my drugged-out mind, I was sure they disdained me. What else could it possibly be, I thought? A negative thought loop ensued, which resulted in my hating of nearly all people in existence. This is what I was talking about earlier when I mentioned my increased aggression, and unfortunately, it did end up sticking for a bit (not anymore, fortunately.) After the blissful phase ended (and not so blissful an ending, at that,) I now entered the stimulant stage, which offers no psychedelic effects whatsoever. My heart was still racing, so I decided, finally, to head upstairs and get some sleep, only after ingesting 20mg Propranolol. After making it upstairs and getting everything ready for the next morning, I then popped 3 K-Pins (1.5mg total) It took me 3 hours, but eventually I made it to sleep, thus ending what was a fairly interesting albeit somewhat empty trip.

Last but not least, it's important to note just how bitter 5-MeO-MiPT is. It's not quite as bad as Piracetam or even Coluracetam for that matter, but the real problem is that it lingers in your mouth. Without a decent amount of food, that powder will cling to your mouth like there's no tomorrow. A banana and a bit of cereal gets rid of the taste fairly quickly in my experience, though any food should work. This concern aside, I absolutely adore this chemical and would now consider it my all-time favourite. Moxy truly is something special. If you're reading this and haven't had the chance to try Moxy yet, you're missing out, mate, ;) "

Age: 18

Weight: 126lbs

Height: 6'1"

Doses: 30mg 5-MeO-MiPT (~6PM), 30mg Coluracetam (~6PM), 4mg Intuniv (~4PM),, 20mg Propranolol (~11PM), 1.5mg Clonazepam (~11:30PM)

Edit: Total duration? 32 hours. Ridiculous...
 
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Just swallowed a capsule of ginseng extract with 5 mg 5-MeO-MiPT. I've had a really positive experience at this dose with this compound before, so I'm hoping for something along those lines again. I found the comedown after the main psychedelia to be very peaceful, and the perfect mindset to cozy up with some standup comedy specials and laugh until the sun comes up.
 
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