Tryptamines The Big & Dandy 5-MeO-MiPT Thread - Part 2

[HeadphonesandLSD]

Meh, I think it is not all too confusing mentally and it can be pretty 'up' in terms of energy, euphoria, sexuality, etc. so I'd consider it a candidate. But I personally wouldn't use it as an introduction because introductions imply first impressions, I wouldn't want to give off the impression that all psychedelics or all tryptamines give this feeling. It can be too heavy for some and the pent up energy can translate to restlessness and body load. I think it is better to learn to let go and allow these feelings to flow through you, there are a number of very inviting 4-HO tryptamines that would be great for that IMO.

Thank you!

I am going to let the person in question decide and prep a small dose for them just in case. I do appreciate your advice and agree with it though. We already have plans to do a group mushroom trip in a few months so I plan on giving them a proper introduction psychs at that point. We'd be doing them this weekend if they were in season locally.

I haven't gotten to try out the 4-ho-x's yet but I hear great things.

 

[tryptamine-tripper]

I've become a big fan of 5-MeO-MiPT in these last few weeks (since I first got it/tried it). But I'm not into using it for a mere "tryptamine roll"; dose 2-3x the Shulgin reccomendation and it's a true psychedelic with a unique headspace, and works as basically the best stimulant I've done on top of that. I can see why many wouldn't be comfortable with the body load, especially those who don't like stimulants or need their psychedelics to feel "clean" (like LSD), but it works great for me! The come-up can be a little rough still, but it's worth it. At higher doses taken orally it lasts a solid 8 hours (not counting after-effects), as with many others I find it has a sort of "two-phase" trip, with the first being more powerfully tactile and the second more mental- but the two bleed into each other pretty heavily, there's not any point without the head trip/visuals or without the body high (though the body high mellows out into a more typical, but still very stimulating tryptamine high about halfway through the trip).

I also tried smoking it for the first time last night (using the weed "sandwich method" like with DMT) and I was blown away! I was already on some very potent LSD, about 6 hours into the trip, at the time, so I don't know what smoking it alone is like yet, but damn did it mix well with acid! Possibly the strongest body high I've ever had on psychedelics, insane visuals, headspace kinda like MET (never done 5-MeO-DMT so can't compare to that as many have). Smoking it, the peak lasted a little under an hour, gradually fading into a far less intense residual stimulation/body high which lasted about 4 hours and mixed very nicely with the LSD, mainly boosting it a little and intensifying the visuals. Something odd is that the smoke tastes good- like some sort of candy! All in all I think 5-MeO-MiPT is a real winner, definitely something I'm gonna keep in stock for a good long time.

 

[SWIM Had A Dream]

20 mg oral solution just taught me some respect...I wonder if magnesium could help with the bodyload like it does with mdma...it would be a damn pleasant psychedelic if I didn't feel like I was two steps away from a seizure

 

[《Plasticity》]

During a benzo induced blackout I apparently made an order for this chem, why? I have no fucking idea, I think I meant to order Miprocin, a chem I really like. My buddy gave me an unknown dose of this stuff a few years back and from what I remember it was pretty shitty. I remember it having an annoying bodyload, 5-meo-dalt like body buzz, and mediocre visuals.

Anyways, at least I only ordered 100mgs. Does 7mgs oral sound like a reasonable ++ dose? I don't like pushing into deep +++ territory with chems that I haven't personally weighed and ingested myself. Also, I'm aware that the smoked dose is twice as high as oral but are the effects changed like with other chems? If I can reduce the bodyload without adding stimulation by smoking I think this will be the way to go. Either way I'll sum up my results next weekend as I don't mind giving this stuff another shot, who knows maybe the dose I was given just wasn't my "sweet spot", I doubt it though as I've yet to find a 5-meo that I've thoroughly enjoyed

Ps: I'm getting the HCL salt, is conversion to freebase necessary to vape?

 

[SWIM Had A Dream]

If you like miprocin I think you will like moxy... Miprocins sexier cousin...heavily erotic... I tried 10mg first time, it was delightful...I tried 20 tonight and it was pleasant but way overstim...intensely gentle if that makes any sense...

 

[《Plasticity》]

I liked pretty much all 4-subs I've taken, I also HATED every 5-sub, there's no comparison really. I also have taken this chem before and found it pretty shitty tbh, I just have no idea what dose it was, what I do know is that it felt nothing like miprocin which isn't surprising as none of the 5-meos' I have taken felt anything like their 4-substituted brothers. How was the nausea and stimulation at 10mgs? Duration? A short summary of your 10mg trip would be greatly appreciated

 

[SWIM Had A Dream]

The body stimulation was present but easily overlooked at ten mgs... Trip report is pretty straightforward...My fiancé and I had sex for several hours...it was delightfully enhanced by the moxy not unlike MDMA (touchyfeelies)...10 mgs there was zero nausea...I puked on 20 mgs...but with 10mgs, immediately I was a big fan, it struck me as very mild kind of tryptamine not at all like 5meodmt ... I kind of felt like it changed flavors from light and sexual, to light and spacey at around 2.5 hrs or so...I didn't much care for miprocin but it may have been set and setting...I have a shitty mg scale so I just weigh out 2x doses for more accuracy, then do volumetric dose with oral solution of tap water and a dash of lime juice to make the medicine go down...tastes like dick and lime juice...

 

[《Plasticity》]

Lmfao @ dick and lime juice, well my GF won't be around this weekend but if things work out well we will be able to dose together in the near future and make things more interesting in the bedroom. Problem is Foxy was also said to be a great aphrodesiac but it's hard to fuck your girl when simply walking around makes you wanna vomit

 

[psykedenlitenment]

You should have no problem at all on this. I don't have any experience to compare to foxy, but the only time I've felt bad on moxy was a low dose, about 5 mgs, after a handful of runs ranging around 10 mgs. On five, it was all lower GI tract issues.

 

[Xorkoth]

I haven't really read of it being an MAOI at all, other than how anything that is metabolized by MAO is just because it ties up some MAO.

 

[《Plasticity》]

Read the big and dandy 5-meo-mipt thread, there's lots of talk suspecting it's an MAOI but I'm not sure I believe that's true. Why would this apply to moxy and not other 5-meo's? I'm aware that just about all psychedelics are MAOI's to some extent but people.are saying this chem has notable activity that should be considered when combining substances.

 

[Xorkoth]

Ah okay, I'll check it out.

 

[《Plasticity》]

Apparently the talk of it's MAOI activity is more scattered than I thought bur here's a post I found in a jiffy...

" Anyone here combined meoMIPT with stims before? I'm a bit sketch about the possible MAOI (and subsequent serotonin syndrome) effects"
Posted by a mod on this page: http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/100105-The-Big-amp-Dandy-5-MeO-MiPT-Thread/page31

There's more but I'm too lazy to scour the thread. A google search of "5-meo-mipt MAOI" brings up a couple more relevant comments. However there are also alot of people.doing what would be dangerous combos with no problems so agaim, I think it's MAOI activity is negligable

 

[Xorkoth]

I see a few things... mostly random forum comments. Also I am not well versed in neurochemistry, especially since I stopped thinking about this stuff for almost 3 years. Perhaps one of our numerous members educated in the subject have some insight?

 

[《Plasticity》]

I don't know where this rumor stems from, serotonin syndrome is thrown around WAY too much in cases where it's not even the culprit, perhaps someone mixed it with something that caused them to overheat or suspect an MAOI reaction? Moxy does have a hefty bodyload at times but yeah, I'm sure someone who's more sharp in pharmacology and neurochemistry than us ie. Sekio or solipsis should be able to clear things up. There seems to be mixed mixed reactions ranging from amazing to horrible when combined with MDMA, FWIW.

 

[Solipsis]

@Cpt. Kratom & Xorkoth:

we are pretty off-topic, but here are the affinities for 5-MeO-MiPT:

NSFW:

5ht1a 12,3
5ht1b 302,8
5ht1d 22,5
5ht1e 3496
5ht2a 448,3
5ht2b 58,5
5ht2c 2186
5ht5a 952,9
5ht6 130,2

D1 >10,000
D2 >10,000
D3 2470
D4 6331
D5 >10,000

Alpha1A >10,000
Alpha1B >10,000
Alpha2A 175
Alpha2B 1693
Alpha2C 637
Beta1 >10,000
Beta2 >10,000

SERT 6409
DAT >10,000
NET >10,000
Imidazoline1 879,4
Sigma1 >10,000
Sigma2 917,9

DOR KOR MOR M1 M2 M3 M4 M5, all >10,000

H1 4819
H2 >10,000
CB1 ND
CB2 >10,000
Ca+ Ch. >10,000
NMDA/MK801 >10,000

While we don't know efficacy from affinity, an amateur / armchair pharmacologist could venture a guess I suppose.
My guess would be that alpha(2A) adrenergic agonism would be one of the things to produce stimulant-like side-effects, not too sure about some of the serotonergic affinities like 1d (don't know much about that) and 2b which got people's panty in a bunch when there was an NBOMe pharm rage on the board trying to explain OD toxicity.

In any case like I just PM'ed you (CptKratom) and I see Xorkoth saying as well as people suspecting in the 5-MeO-MiPT thread when you search for keyword 'MAOI': it's probably the 5-MeO tryptamine typical side-effects which can be potentially heavy. There isn't much to argue that it is due to MAOI activity, as a substrate it inhibits MAO competitively and it might do this a bit more or less than other trypts / psychs, but it is more likely a complex interaction between direct pharmacological effects.
I thought I remembered something about reuptake inhibition but I seem to have been wrong. Maybe some monoamine release, not sure about that and the above data doesn't tell us anything about that.

Does anyone know how strong of an MAOI moxy is? It seems like it's a weak one but I've never seen any concrete info on how strong it's MAOI activity is.

Unfortunately that data just seems to be lacking / not been studied, or if it has I don't really know where to find the results. So only thing left to do is analyze, deduce and infer a bit with what we got.

 

[sekio]

The only tryptamine MAOI I know of is AMT, and even then that's pretty weak in light of its activity as a monoamine releaser and ligand.

I think a more likely explanation for wierd, unpleasant side effects of 5-MeO series is their affinity for non-psychedelic serotonin receptors. TO an extent their activity at 5ht1a may also play a role.

 

[《Plasticity》]

To everyone above, thanks for your very usefull information. After doing more research I've come to the conclusion that there's simply not enough solid info on exactly how strong moxy's MAOI activity is but it appears low and possibly insignificant going on how people seem to be combining it with what would be risky combinations successfully. The reason I suspected 5-meo-mipt was even a notable MAOI was from a few scattered posts I read in the B&D thread a few years ago but after digging deeper it seems people are experiencing little to no problems that would infer any significant MAO inhibition.

Originally Posted by Solipsis
I thought I remembered something about reuptake inhibition but I seem to have been wrong.

Interesting, here's what ebola posted in the B&D 5-MAPB thread very recently in response to a poster wanting to combine moxy with an assortment of substances... He also appears to be under the impression that 5-meo-mipt is a re-uptake inhibitor. I'm almost positive foxy is a strong re-uptake inhibitor so it doesn't surprise me if this applies to moxy as well.

Originally Posted by ebola?
5meomipt acts primarily as a reuptake inhbitor at SERT and NET, IIRC, so it probably won't play too well with entactogens.

 

[Solipsis]

Some discussion was moved here from the AMT thread as it was too off-topic for too long, and deserves not to be constrained.

So I was right about the reuptake inhibition, however:

I am really puzzled as to why those affinities for SERT and NET I posted are negligibly low. Just did a little more digging and I found some IC50 values:

5-MeO-DIPT:
DAT: 6.5 ± 1.1 × 10−5 M
SERT: 2.2 ± 0.41 × 10−6 M
NET: 8.2 ± 1.9 × 10−6 M

5-MeO-MIPT:
DAT: n.e.
SERT: 6.4 ± 1.8 × 10−6 M
NET: 2.6 ± 0.45 × 10−5 M

5-MeO-DIPT inhibited the reuptake of 5-HT and norepinephrine relatively strongly with IC50 values of 2.2×10−6 and 8.2×10−6 M, respectively, though the inhibition of dopamine re-uptake was relatively weak (6.5×10−5 M). 5-MeO-MIPT and 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine (5-MeO-DMT) suppressed 5-HT and norepinephrine re-uptake, but had little effect on dopamine re-uptake.

source

What I don't understand about ebola?'s quote is how a SERT and NET reuptake inhibitor would cause bad interactions when combined with say MDMA. SSRI's with MDMA are IIRC not dangerous either, they attenuate the effects. MDMA reverses the transporter pump activity, if the transporter is blocked I thought this couldn't happen anymore. On the other hand MDMA of course also releases monoamines like serotonin, if they are not taken back up like they normally would be I guess they hang around in the synapse longer, able to act on receptors. But then my question is: how much are the transporter pumps really reversed? If you take 100 mg of MDMA are more than half of the transporters acting in reverse or are most still acting normally? If most are still acting normally, then why doesn't the serotonin release cause SS effects when an SSRI is blocking reuptake?

Also, if you read an account of 5-MeO-DiPT or 5-MeO-MiPT taken with MDMA gone wrong there are symptoms like hyperthermia that suggest excess serotonin, but also symptoms like severe tachycardia / palpitations. Would that be the excess of NE? Or rather the extra 5-HT2B agonism? Or both?

 

[ebola?]

SSRI's with MDMA are IIRC not dangerous either, they attenuate the effects.

This interaction actually varies in ways that are not entirely understood. Take, for example, the difference between medical SSRIs' interaction with MDMA and that of DXM. For whatever reason, DXM tends to induce serortonin syndrome when taken in conjunction with MDMA rather than attenuating its effects. This could be because DXM has weaker affinity at SERT (it's not a very potent substance in general), so it doesn't competitively preclude MDMA's interaction with the transporter. Since 5-meo-mipt is comparatively poorly studied, I'd tread with great caution.

If you take 100 mg of MDMA are more than half of the transporters acting in reverse or are most still acting normally?

I don't have specific numbers handy, but I believe that proportionate transporter occupancy is quite high, particularly given the serotonergic depletion that follows typical recreational use.

also symptoms like severe tachycardia / palpitations. Would that be the excess of NE? Or rather the extra 5-HT2B agonism? Or both?

It's pretty typical for NRIs to play poorly with releasers (see the increased incidence of cardiovascular side-effects when ritalin is combined with amphetamine), and you often see unpleasant synergy when the reuptake inhibitor is taken near the end of the releaser's time-course. I would expect certain types of direct 5ht agonism to further add to cardiovascular side-effects.

ebola