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☛ Official ☚ The Big & Dandy 5-MeO-DMT Thread - Second Launch

Cream gravy: it shouldn't be too hard to convert it to freebase if you wanted to vape it. I've read various teks for this.

Personally, my instincts tell me not to vape it, feels very unhealthy to me. Could be entirely irrational, but I think I'd rather bear the pain of snorting it. Also, the expanded duration is appealing.

But ideally I'd love to find a way to bypass the distracting pain of snorting the HCL form. Any ideas would be welcome.
 
You could IM it. It works pretty well. I found low doses effective and it doesn't really smash in with as much rapidity. You get some brief time to build up to the intenstiy/terror.
 
IM seems like a good way to go with this chemical. I don't have an aversion to needles, but I would be a little sketched out injecting a non-medical grade RC. A sub-micron filter would improve safety, but those are a bit pricey and hard to come by it seems.

How does the timeframe/course of action compare IM vs insuff?
 
IM seems like a good way to go with this chemical. I don't have an aversion to needles, but I would be a little sketched out injecting a non-medical grade RC. A sub-micron filter would improve safety, but those are a bit pricey and hard to come by it seems.

How does the timeframe/course of action compare IM vs insuff?

Yeah, filter filter fiter. I got a gram or so of this and its lasted me for ages and I first IMed it when I was more careless. I survived it, I assume the product is relatively sterile.

I've never snorted it to be honest, so cannot compare, only smoked, IM/IV (rare) and I've tried it sublingually but it was incredibly disgusting and hard on my mouth. In comparison to smoking, it takes longer to peak and last slightly longer. I try and avoid the 'whiteout' sensation, I don't feel like that's all that safe. I love this chemical, I would take it only twice a year if that, but I don't like how much it speeds up my heart rate.
 
Yeah it really does make your heart jump.. I doubt it goes above the '220 minus your age' limit though and none of it lasts *that* long. For me it's more the combination of such bodily sensations with the panicky feelings that come with the intensity. All that together makes it hard to bear and something to not go through with often IMO.

I never smoked but have snorted and IM'ed it... IM'ed it does last a bit long-ish I think, when combined with a dissociative the timeframe can be even about twice as long as that it seems.

I've always filtered my solutions yeah, better consider it a must with IM, if you don't a gamble not worth taking.

Definitely expensive those wheelfilters but from china / hongkong via eBay or other similar sites you can get a reasonable quantity for affordable prices I believe. Just check the reviews well to get some idea of the quality perhaps? Maybe they sometimes allow more to pass idk.
 
^What sort of dose range we talking there?

I find it best used in low doses a few times over a couple of hours and some of the physical effects become bearable and a bit more n,n,DMT-like. And regarding the heart rate, I've found that being on a strong benzo dose is useful for the inevitable (for me at least) panic but the heart still pounds. It creates that feedback cycle of heart rate increase=panic=heart rate increase=etc. that we all know and love.

The last time I did it, which was maybe 6 weeks ago I really found it unpleasant and took only one dose. I felt incredibly nasueated and physically paranoid. Couldn't stop focusing on uncomfortable sensations. The comparatively slower kick-in had me with that thought 'I shouldn't have done this...' which is not a good path to start down. I was able to relax a bit, and was on a bit of ghb which helped, but it was uneasy, sweaty and edgy. It felt a bit like being poisoned.
 
I find it best used in low doses a few times over a couple of hours and some of the physical effects become bearable and a bit more n,n,DMT-like.

I've tried this with DMT & 5-meo-dmt. I don't really enjoy the effects of a strong dose of either, but spacing out a few mild doses can be pretty good. By the third round, the creepy tryptamine feel that surges through the body is hardly even noticeable, can actually start to feel quite relaxing. It's kind of like a few warm-up doses desensitize the nerves a bit to the sudden intensity of the drug's effects..

Still, with 5-meo-dmt, a few extra milligrams too soon is all it takes to go from a pleasant floating-in-space sensation to "Oh fuck.."
 
@Perpetual dawn
How was your insufflated experience? besides from being painful of cause. Kind of curious of how you found it.

And regarding the heart rate, I've found that being on a strong benzo dose is useful for the inevitable (for me at least) panic but the heart still pounds. It creates that feedback cycle of heart rate increase=panic=heart rate increase=etc. that we all know and love.

Maybe propranolol would be great for that? Better than a benzo anyway imo. What's you dose when you IM it, by the way?

Definitely expensive those wheelfilters but from china / hongkong via eBay or other similar sites you can get a reasonable quantity for affordable prices I believe. Just check the reviews well to get some idea of the quality perhaps? Maybe they sometimes allow more to pass idk.

Yes, it's definitely a good idea to check reviews for generic filters, but if you buy them from EU or USA they are probably made in China too anyway, so I'm guessing there's not much difference. If you look around on ebay, you can actually find small lots of brand wheel filters pretty cheap too, sometimes even shipped from EU etc.
 
^What sort of dose range we talking there?

Well its weird, I have had a 1 mg IM experience that really gave me pretty strong and uncomfortable sensations, I was of course baffled - but later I have gone up to about 10 mg or so I think, with less trouble.

And there was that night when I took over 100 mg in ~10-15 mg doses but I was on quite a bit of zopiclone. Which did not stop me from tripping hard and ecstatically. I have no idea what possessed me to do something like that (I guess it was the zopiclone that made it seem like a decent idea, in part), and I am wary about the thought that something like a Z-drug or benzo could make it smoother pretty much every time you'd try.
Might be from being conditioned that you shouldn't take preventitive benzos with psychedelics. Possibly this is an exception, it's so powerful that you can really afford to lose a little intensity and still have your socks rocked. Even with the nearly 40 mg zopiclone I took (probably the highest I ever went with that), it was still quite heavy enough. Then again Z-drugs are trippy, and kinda selective in their inhibitory effect, so it might not be the same with a benzo and it's a risky plan anyway to combine amnestic drugs with potent trips.
 
@Perpetual dawn
How was your insufflated experience? besides from being painful of cause. Kind of curious of how you found it.

Wow I intended to write a quick two line response, but this turned into a mini TR. I guess I had something to get off my chest lol..

It was remarkable, one of the most unique and surprising psychedelic experiences I've ever had. My dose was fairly low as I'm still working my way up with this one. After allergy testing, I insufflated 8mg of the HCL.

Before we embark, I'd like to mention that despite what you might guess from my avatar and screen name, I don't consider myself a new agey type person at all. I'm very much a rationalist, and default to a skeptical/scientific/materialist outlook.

The first 45mins were underwhelming and slightly difficult - extreme burning and an uneasy mental space, with some slightly depressing thought patterns. I mostly sat and lied on my back, basically in meditation, focusing on my breath.

After 45 - 60 mins had passed, I decided it must be past the peak, and that the trip wasn't really going anywhere. I'd had enough of the burn, so I rinsed out my sinuses in the sink. I was surprised to notice a lot of unabsorbed 5-MeO-DMT in my snot/phlegm.

I then sat down to reflect a bit on the whole thing. It was different, but maybe not really useful or interesting in any way. And then this thing happened...

The heat from my cup of tea was emanating a warm, extremely pleasant sensation that triggered an urge in me to open up my posture. I became aware that I was holding in my shoulders, in a protective, introverted kind of way. I was compelled open up my posture more and more and straighten out, and then finally to throw my shoulders back, tip my head back, and open my chest right up. Part of me was like "what the fuck is this flakey shit", and another part was like "just go with it". I chose the latter. And then ... light began to pour out from my chest. It was metaphorical light, and not actual physical light, but holy fuck, there is no other description for the sensation. It was like the brightest sunshine pouring out of my chest, blasting out and upward. My face peeled open into the hugest spontaneous smile, which became a full body smile. It was full on heart-gasm of pure ecstatic joy, intensely, with this light just pouring from my chest, my chin up, head back, chest out, light pouring and pouring up and out from my chest. Eventually it tapered off, and I settled back into a more normal posture, but still glowing intensely with the thing.

This was an ecstatic, energy experience, the kind of thing I've heard about but always thought was bullshit. Actually I still think people bullshit about this kind of thing, but it's made me realize it is actually possible, that this is a genuine thing that a human body can experience.

And an hour or two later, I was in bed asleep..

It's affected my outlook, and the way I hold my posture. My take-home lesson was that I can experience more joy in life by literally holding my posture more open, with shoulder blades back, chin up. I think it's true.

I feel that I've really only just touched the tip of the iceberg with this substance. My next dose will be in the range of 10-12mg insufflated, not sure yet.
 
Wow yeah that's amazing, 5-MeO-DMT really is extremely powerful, it can change you, transform you, or deeply affect you. Or if not directly then having experienced things like that ecstasy energy can somehow mean a great deal.
I found it really fulfilling, although that night I was just really rolling with it having a blast, wasn't solemn about most of it.

Energy radiating from the chest, yeah mescaline and some 2C-Ts can also really do that, and of course MDMA but that's a little different. It can really blast through hangups, clean you out.
 
Thanks, Perpetual Dawn :) Yes, that does sound amazing. Somewhat a different experience from what you normally hear people reporting from this. It seems very much a all or nothing kind of compound, but you seem to have managed to have gotten something more out of it.

Is there any reason to think, that propranolol or other betablockers would be contraindicated with 5-MeO-DMT? As I mentioned earlier, it could potentially take the edge of the worst side effects, while not clouding the mind like benzo's. On the wikipedia page it says ergot alkaloids have interactions with beta-blockers, I'm guessing it's probably because they are vasoconstrictors. That might indicate it's a bad idea?

I have a couple of propranolol tablets called inderal, and I might try them with 5-MeO-DMT if I ever get around to it, and if there's nothing obviously dangerous about it of cause.
 
Yeah 5-MeO-DMT seems to act on alpha and beta adrenoceptors I think.. with a beta blocker you'd get a very imbalanced situation since the alpha receptors are still getting stimulated which can then get more pronounced. I think amphetamines are contraindicated for the same reason?
https://www.erowid.org/pharms/betablockers/

So it's controversial since beta blockers are indeed given in case of amph OD.., and there does not appear to be an actual contraindication between them - but the imbalance is somehow still a concern?

Am not sure what a very acute 'selective' alpha agonist (which is what it would render 5-MeO-DMT to be) does? Could be that it's still preferable over the alpha and beta agonist it otherwise would be i dont know. Dont know if an amphetamine OD is an ideal situation to compare with anyway or call safe. They can't very well block both alpha and beta in that case or you'll be lying on the floor with virtually no blood pressure. I guess it's a necessity if heartrate just must come down.

If coke is anything to go by - and just generalizing from the alpha and beta activity I'd say it is, you should read this (however unfortunately cocaine is also cardiotoxic in a completely different way namely from the local anaesthetic effects / sodium blocking i think?) but still:

β-Blockers

β-Blockers are the most extensively studied and the most controversial drugs relating to cocaine-using patients. In non–cocaine-using patients, β-blockers benefit numerous end points, including mortality, during and after acute MI , and in patients with cardiomyopathy. In cocaine-using patients, however, β- blockade can potentially leave α-stimulation unopposed, resulting in pronounced systemic and coronary vasoconstriction. In animal studies of acute cocaine toxicity, propranolol worsened the seizure threshold and expedited death.64,74 In humans, cocaine-induced coronary artery vasoconstriction was exacerbated by propranolol.75 Esmolol increased blood pressure in 2 of 7 cocaine-using patients.76 In 1 instance, blood pressure increased after esmolol from 200/120 to 230/180 mm Hg.76 Labetalol and carvedilol offer the theoretical advantage of blocking both α- and β-receptors. Labetalol, however, did not reverse cocaine-induced coronary artery vasoconstriction.77 In pheochromocytoma, which features a hypersympathetic state similar to cocaine intoxication, labetalol caused severe hypertension.78 When combined with cocaine, carvedilol 25 mg tended to increase blood pressure consistent with unopposed α-stimulation, whereas carvedilol 50 mg decreased blood pressure and heart rate, suggesting that both α- and β-receptors were blocked.79 Recent, uncontrolled studies of β-blockers in patients with CACP report conflicting results. Death resulting from cocaine-induced MI is rare, which limits the benefit of β-blockers while they increase the risk of hypertension and coronary artery vasoconstriction. An anecdotal report of crushing chest pain, cardiac arrest, and death ensuing minutes after metoprolol administration illustrates the potential risk of mixing β-blockers with cocaine.80 All β-blockers should be avoided in cocaine-using patients in the acute setting. Because most patients continue to use cocaine after hospital discharge,53 postdischarge β-blocker therapy should be considered after careful risk-benefit assessment and perhaps should be withheld until cessation of cocaine has been proven. Patients should be educated on the potential hazards of combining cocaine with β-blockers.

http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/122/24/2558

Inderal is propanolol so I wouldn't use that. Carvedilol being an alpha and beta blocker (heh weird I thought that was a no no) could be safe-ish?

If you ask me, fucking with your heart rate and blood pressure to help what 5-MeO-DMT does may just make matters worse and way more complicated.
 
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If you ask me, fucking with your heart rate and blood pressure to help what 5-MeO-DMT does may just make matters worse and way more complicated.

Thanks a lot. Yes, it definitely sounds like a bad idea I had there, and I'll definitely not try it. As I said earlier, 5-MeO-DMT really seems lika a all or nothing type of compound, so it kind of seems to me, that you need to accept the whole package if you "buy the ticket", so to speak. People usually say that it only has uncomfortable side effects if you underdose, so that might be the best way to avoid them - Then I guess you'll only have to worry about the terror of having you ego shattered :D If I someday gather the guts for it, I'll probably just jump in at the deep end, and vape 10 mg.

I didn't know that about cocaine and amphetamine combined with propranolol. Way back I remember having freinds who used beta-blockers for coming down off amphetamine. Not good.
 
Maybe propranolol would be great for that? better than a benzo anyway imo.


Maybe. I've never taken a beta-blocker. I tend to agree with solipsis, it feels like overkill. I don't have any issue with combining a benzo with a psychedelic but it depends on the benzo. I avoid the more hypnotic due to their impact on memory. I don't really buy into the idea that one should face psychedelia with a 'clear mind' or at least I don't think there is any one way that you should take these drugs. There's no rules. I hvae to be careful, if I do not choose the dose correctly, I will get too disinihibted and in that state I often want to take the more powerful psychedelics. I have taken 5-Meo-DMT anumber of times due to this disinhibition. Its like my subconscious tells me I am ready for it or that I don't care about the consequences. I've actually wasted a fair bit of stuff this way.

What's you dose when you IM it, by the way?

Up to 10mg, but more often 5mg. The last time I did it, when I did not enjoy, I took 3mg. As I said, I would slowly increase dosage and have maybe 15mg all up in 4 hits over a few hours. Start low. The physical effect is very disorienting.

I didn't spend much on wheel filters and they are fine for anything I've IM/IVed. But an absolute must.
 
There's no rules.

I totally agree. I mean, who decided on those rules anyway, if we went so far as to accept they were there in the first place? lol :D

It all just depends on what kind of experience you want, and every experience has it's own merits. As I just said in my previous post though, 5-MeO-DMT just seems to me one of those "buy the ticket, take the ride" kind of drugs, were you just have to accept some unpleasant feelings or some challenging parts, if you want the full experience that is. But of cause it can be used differently and in any combination that one fancies. I've sometimes considered my first trial to be insufflated combined with ketamine. But I'm also very curious, as well as apprehensive, of taking the full monty. Maybe it might just be best to jump right in, I don't know. Maybe I'll never do it again, but then I'll hopefully at least have satisfied my curiosity.

So 10 mg I.M doesn't give you a 'whiteout'?
 
I agree too, mostly in the sense that it isn't a stipulated rule but a preference. It really depends IMO... alcohol with something like LSD for example is good fun, and one drink might take the edge off or just be innocent and pleasant - but very quickly it can feel like the clarity that is so pristine with things like LSD can be ruined.
If I don't care about all that and am just looking for a good time, then alright - but it can still feel abuse-y just by comparing the potential with what I degrade it into.

I hardly care what the morals are on a subject like that, but sometimes ruining an effect like that clarity can just not feel right in my heart.

5-MeO-DMT is a little different. It's beauty is not really that of a sparkling placid lake like acid (even if the surface of the water reflects insane morphing shenanigans), it's more like a tsunami. :D You can afford to lose a little resolution with that one and you'll still have a very easy time making out the tsunami haha.

While I have not tried 5-MeO-DMT with a benzo, I don't think taking the physical edge off (its a serious whack) really detracts from some important message or part of the experience you have to undergo. It's still so in your face, some cushioning isn't going to tame it in all likelihood. Don't take too much of the benzo of course.
 
I totally agree. I mean, who decided on those rules anyway, if we went so far as to accept they were there in the first place? lol :D

It seems to me it was the early wave of psychonauts, who tended to be a very spiritual lot and viewed psychedelics as sacraments and frowned upon recreational use without some sort of inner or outer exploration. You can see it in the early trip reports on Erowid, which is what subsequent generations used to learn about tripping, and they looked up to those early explorers. Unfortunately a lot of those people were pretty elitist about it, when I came to PD there was a whole contingent of old-school trippers, who were just really assholes, shaming everyone who used psychedelics to party or have a good time, shaming high school kids who'd come on and ask a basic question, etc. It was ridiculous. But yeah I think that's where the idea of "rules" came from. I think since then most people have realized that psychedelic use is a personal thing, it's what you make of it, they're not some divine sacrament, but you can view them that way and use them that way and that's cool for you, or you can use them primarily to have fun, whatever, nothing wrong with that. It's up to you. Personally in my early days I had some immensely profound and life-changing experiences and I tended to view them as sacraments, but as I've gotten older I now mostly use them to enhance certain activities such as hanging out with friends, listening to or playing music, and seeing live music or going to festivals. Sometimes for a good camping trip or day hike too. I don't go for world-shattering experiences anymore, because I've been there, I don't really need to go back, I've gotten the message several times over. But I don't necessarily agree with the old adage "get the message, hang up the phone". psychedelics are tools that have many possible applications, and I find that the way I use them now still brings beneficial value to my life, so I continue to use them.
 
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